Attendance at the Novus Ordo

[TantumErgo90]

I know some people who are strong supporters of the SSPX (they go every chance they get) and Archbishop Lefebvre, of Blessed Memory. However, what is odd, is they attend the Novus Ordo during the week, one even does the readings occasionally. I find this to be a bit odd. They detest the novus ordo, but say they need to fulfill their obligation. I thought the SSPX forbade people to attend the Novus Ordo, especially taking an active part in it. Is the SSPX unified in it’s positions?

 

[Just_1_hr_a_wk]

I know some people who are strong supporters of the SSPX (they go every chance they get) and Archbishop Lefebvre, of Blessed Memory. However, what is odd, is they attend the Novus Ordo during the week, one even does the readings occasionally. I find this to be a bit odd. They detest the novus ordo, but say they need to fulfill their obligation. I thought the SSPX forbade people to attend the Novus Ordo, especially taking an active part in it. Is the SSPX unified in it’s positions?

Stranger still is that they think weekday attendance ‘fulfills’ any obligation.

 

[TantumErgo90]

Sorry…what I meant to say is that they attend during the week and they also attend on sundays when they cannot attend a TLM. Sorry for that…my mistake.

 

[JuanCarlos]

Given the choice between an FSSP Church or an SSPX chapel, if they were right next to eachother, which one would they attend? If its the former, it may be they are simply attending the SSPX because there’s nothing else

 

[TantumErgo90]

Given the choice between an FSSP Church or an SSPX chapel, if they were right next to eachother, which one would they attend? If its the former, it may be they are simply attending the SSPX because there’s nothing else

They would most definitely go to the SSPX chapel.

 

[bear06]

Why don’t you ask them?

 

[old_school]

I know some people who are strong supporters of the SSPX (they go every chance they get) and Archbishop Lefebvre, of Blessed Memory. However, what is odd, is they attend the Novus Ordo during the week, one even does the readings occasionally. I find this to be a bit odd. They detest the novus ordo, but say they need to fulfill their obligation. I thought the SSPX forbade people to attend the Novus Ordo, especially taking an active part in it. Is the SSPX unified in it’s positions?

Being a supporter of the SSPX, the official stance doesnt debate the validity of the NO. However, we do debate that there is a more revereant more humbling more God oriented way to have the mass and it happens to be essentially the same mass for many hundreds of years. So what is the problem? I go to NO if I have no choice because its valid and though I chooose to go to the SSPX or TLMs when I can because I appreciate the reverance of it. To say the SSPX isnt unified in its positions is crazy, you can say that about anything because one person out of the group does someting the group doesnt condone. Speakin of which, do Catholics not believe in the immaculate conception because I konw of a catholic who doesnt. That logic is weak. Not a good way to make a rash judgement of an entire group based on one person or small groups claims.

 

[kleary]

I know some people who are strong supporters of the SSPX (they go every chance they get) and Archbishop Lefebvre, of Blessed Memory. However, what is odd, is they attend the Novus Ordo during the week, one even does the readings occasionally. I find this to be a bit odd. They detest the novus ordo, but say they need to fulfill their obligation. I thought the SSPX forbade people to attend the Novus Ordo, especially taking an active part in it. Is the SSPX unified in it’s positions?

Geeze…you are treating them like a cult or something.
They do NOT forbid lay people from attending the Novus Ordo. They do agree that the Novus Ordo is indeed valid.

I detest the Novus Ordo…cannot stand it…makes me wanna vomit when I attend it and hear all the guitar strumming, see all the hand holding, see all the women parading around up there…

But I do attend the Novus Ordo when I cannot get to Mater Ecclesiae (Which is NOT of the SSPX but of the Diocese) because I know it is valid. I may walk away sickened by all I see and hear, but refreshed by reception of Holy Communion and knowing I did what I was required by the Church to do. I offer the suffering up for the poor souls in purgatory.

Ken

 

[Margarite]

My mom’s family is all in the SSPX and they would never participate in a NO mass and they hate going to a PFSP mass too. If we drag them to a NO they sit, and fold their arms and will not participate. They think it is evil. When they go to the PFSP they pretend to like it so as to encourage my siblings and I to like the TLM, and they even go up for Holy Communion, but then they hold their fingure over their lips when the priest comes to them. No way would they receive from a PFSP priest.

If you have friends who are open enough to go and participat in a NO you should encourage them. Try to get them back in union with Rome. We need their support in the battle for Church reform.

As to those who say that the SSPX like the pope and believe that the NO is valid. You live in a fairy world. Maybe they say that, but ask them to put their words into action and they will not. It is a show. A show that their priests have told them to put on so that they seem more welcoming. People are confused right now about the MP so some think they can go to a SSPX mass, well the SSPX does not object. They are gaining members so they are happy.

 

[Markstorm]

If you have friends who are open enough to go and participat in a NO you should encourage them. Try to get them back in union with Rome. We need their support in the battle for Church reform.

Trust in Tradition and have no love of novelty.

“Do not innovate anything. Rest content with Tradition.” -Pope St. Stephen

“…if some new contagion were to try to poison no longer a small part of the Church, but all of the Church at the same time, then he will take the greatest care to attach himself to antiquity which, obviously, can no longer be seduced by any lying novelty.” -St. Vincent of Lerins

“The true friends of the people are neither revolutionaries nor innovators, but men of tradition.” - Pope St. Pius X

“The use of the Latin language prevailing in a great part of the Church affords at once an imposing sign of unity and an effective safeguard against the corruptions of true doctrine.” -Pope Pius XII, Mediator Dei, 1947, Sec. 60

“36. 1. Particular law remaining in force, the use of the Latin language is to be preserved in the Latin rites.” -Second Vatican Council, Sacrosanctum Concilium

“For the Church, precisely because it embraces all nations and is destined to endure until the end of time … of its very nature requires a language that is universal, immutable, and non-vernacular.” -Pope Pius XI, Officiorum Omnium, 1922

“Far, far from the clergy be the love of novelty.” -Pope St. Pius X

“Finally, I declare that I am completely opposed to the error of the modernists who hold that there is nothing divine in sacred tradition” -Pope St. Pius X, Sacrorum Antistitum

 

[Eilish_Maura]

My mom’s family is all in the SSPX and they would never participate in a NO mass and they hate going to a PFSP mass too. If we drag them to a NO they sit, and fold their arms and will not participate. They think it is evil. When they go to the PFSP they pretend to like it so as to encourage my siblings and I to like the TLM, and they even go up for Holy Communion, but then they hold their fingure over their lips when the priest comes to them. No way would they receive from a PFSP priest.

If you have friends who are open enough to go and participat in a NO you should encourage them. Try to get them back in union with Rome. We need their support in the battle for Church reform.

As to those who say that the SSPX like the pope and believe that the NO is valid. You live in a fairy world. Maybe they say that, but ask them to put their words into action and they will not. It is a show. A show that their priests have told them to put on so that they seem more welcoming. People are confused right now about the MP so some think they can go to a SSPX mass, well the SSPX does not object. They are gaining members so they are happy.

So sad to hear SSPX have them under the thumb.

Pray they return to the Church.

 

[Auntie_M]

I think we need to take a poll…

how many on these threads are ACTUALLY SSPX?

how many are ACTUALLY FSSP?

How many ACTUALLY LIKE the NO?

How many don’t really care one way or the other?

It really would be interesting to know who your “enemy” is, wouldn’t it?

That is the way some think of each other, isn’t it? I mean, as their “Enemy”.

This is the impression that I get from the people of the SSPX! AM I wrong, hope so.

 

[Auntie_M]

My mom’s family is all in the SSPX and they would never participate in a NO mass and they hate going to a PFSP mass too. If we drag them to a NO they sit, and fold their arms and will not participate. They think it is evil. When they go to the PFSP they pretend to like it so as to encourage my siblings and I to like the TLM, and they even go up for Holy Communion, but then they hold their fingure over their lips when the priest comes to them. No way would they receive from a PFSP priest.

If you have friends who are open enough to go and participat in a NO you should encourage them. Try to get them back in union with Rome. We need their support in the battle for Church reform.

As to those who say that the SSPX like the pope and believe that the NO is valid. You live in a fairy world. Maybe they say that, but ask them to put their words into action and they will not. It is a show. A show that their priests have told them to put on so that they seem more welcoming. People are confused right now about the MP so some think they can go to a SSPX mass, well the SSPX does not object. They are gaining members so they are happy.

Members = more MONEY…do the math, right!

What I really don’t understand. HOW can a TRUE Christian sit in ANY church with that attitude. This is SOOOO like the protestant church people. So condemning. " I don’t like this so I’ll just go somewhere else. I don’t think this pastor is right, I’ll just start a ruckus about him and he’ll leave. I think we will get up a group to just kick this pastor out. He doesn’t do what we want."

Anyone want to just get up a group to kick this Pope out? You would **really **be good protestants then!!! (course, That is exactly what you’re doing by REBELING against him.)

If you REALLY think you are “preserving” the faith, you are sadly mistaken. You are destroying it for alot of good people who just want to worship the Lord.

Read EVERYTHING about this, you are only reading propanganda “approved” by the Pius X followers. Educate yourself, instead of “listening” to someone else. (don’t be the “Blind leading the blind”) Anybody can take anything and make it look any way they want it to look. That’s easy and it’s being done everyday. (example, Are we REALLY winning the war in Iraq?)

I converted to the Catholic faith BECAUSE of it’s unity. ONE HOLY CATHOLIC…Why are people wanting to destroy that unity??? (you are allowing Satan his fun)

Wake up and see what you are doing to the ONE HOLY CATHOLIC Church and the people trying to go there.

You are destroying MY church and some of the people I love…Count me too!!!

 

[I_Believe]

The SSPX is not a cult. It is a Society of clergy. The only thing the SSPX priests forbid in their mist is scandal. Those who are publicly of ill repute are denied the Sacraments. They are not forbidden to attend Mass. They are not damned by the SSPX. Any priest, SSPX or otherwise, who would not try to save the soul of someone who is willing to repent, became a priest for the wrong reason.

Ok, then we have the facts of the matter regarding their standing with Rome. Among the SSPX, we have excommunicated Bishops and suspended priests praying ilicit, but valid, Masses. The SSPX are in disagreement with Rome on several matters, and are in fact disobedient with regards of administering the Sacraments, despite the suspensions.

The laity, at worst, are disobedient if they receive the Sacraments from SSPX clergy. Nonetheless, they are devout Catholics. And their children are raised as Catholics.

I’ve assisted at several SSPX Masses. I have not formally joined a SSPX parish, nor do I intend to do so. I have not received Sacraments from SSPX clergy. I’ve also assisted at a few Gregorian Masses at an independent chapel. No confessions or Holy Communion there as well, just assiting the Mass.

I’ve defended most ot the SSPX’s positions here for a few months as well, while remaining a member of a diocean parish. I’ve continued to assist (I suppose attend is the right word here) at Novus Ordo Masses.

Just in the last few days, I’ve decided to silence my defense of the SSPX. Until the excommunications and suspensions are lifted, I can’t continue assisting at the chapel.

This is not a rejection of the SSPX or their flock. It is simply my decision to remain obedient to Rome.

Oddly, it is the words of Fr Michael Mary C.SS.R of the Transalpine Redemptorists, a SSPX affiliate, that had great bearing on my decision.

Here is a quote from Fr Michael…

…now we must ask ourselves if a glimmer of light has not begun to show through the clouds of confusion that for many years have darkened the sky of eternal Rome. For we now have a Pontiff, a successor of Peter, ready to allow us to adhere fully to this timeless tradition of the Church and its complete expression in Catholic life without apparent compromise. He seems ready to “let us do the experiment of Tradition” as Archbishop Lefebvre asked so many years ago.

Entire letter here… papastronsay.blogspot.com/2008_04_01_archive.html

Now is simply not the time to *begin *supporting the SSPX. It’s time for the SSPX to reconcile, and continue their work for souls in the mist of todays mainstream catholics. While they remain under the stigma, unjust as it may be, how can they expose fellow catholics to traditional catholicism ?

How wonderful would it be if a SSPX priest were to be assigned to an old church with a High Altar, that is in danger of being closed because of not having enough parishioners to support it’s operation ? There are many such parishes in metro areas, and many now setting idle, due to clustering. Once again, Sacred Polyphony could fill the church by the choirs these SSPX clergy bring with them, while the Mass returns to these treasured Holy Altars.

In the mean time, I’ll pray for more reverent NO’s and assist at our local diocean EF on Sunday. And I’ll attend and pray the NO weekdays. The folks who attend weekday Mass are there due to strong faith, and abuses are minimal. Not to mention the lack of bad choice of music and distractions of the lukewarm one has to tolerate at the Sunday Masses.

God Bless Pope Benedict and his efforts to begin the healing and for taking us by the hand, and gently leading us with baby steps in those cool red shoes of his. I love him.

 

[Auntie_M]

The SSPX is not a cult. It is a Society of clergy. The only thing the SSPX priests forbid in their mist is scandal. Those who are publicly of ill repute are denied the Sacraments. They are not forbidden to attend Mass. They are not damned by the SSPX. Any priest, SSPX or otherwise, who would not try to save the soul of someone who is willing to repent, became a priest for the wrong reason.

Ok, then we have the facts of the matter regarding their standing with Rome. Among the SSPX, we have excommunicated Bishops and suspended priests praying ilicit, but valid, Masses. The SSPX are in disagreement with Rome on several matters, and are in fact disobedient with regards of administering the Sacraments, despite the suspensions.

The laity, at worst, are disobedient if they receive the Sacraments from SSPX clergy. Nonetheless, they are devout Catholics. And their children are raised as Catholics.

I’ve assisted at several SSPX Masses. I have not formally joined a SSPX parish, nor do I intend to do so. I have not received Sacraments from SSPX clergy. I’ve also assisted at a few Gregorian Masses at an independent chapel. No confessions or Holy Communion there as well, just assiting the Mass.

I’ve defended most ot the SSPX’s positions here for a few months as well, while remaining a member of a diocean parish. I’ve continued to assist (I suppose attend is the right word here) at Novus Ordo Masses.

Just in the last few days, I’ve decided to silence my defense of the SSPX. Until the excommunications and suspensions are lifted, I can’t continue assisting at the chapel.

This is not a rejection of the SSPX or their flock. It is simply my decision to remain obedient to Rome.

Oddly, it is the words of Fr Michael Mary C.SS.R of the Transalpine Redemptorists, a SSPX affiliate, that had great bearing on my decision.

Here is a quote from Fr Michael…

…now we must ask ourselves if a glimmer of light has not begun to show through the clouds of confusion that for many years have darkened the sky of eternal Rome. For we now have a Pontiff, a successor of Peter, ready to allow us to adhere fully to this timeless tradition of the Church and its complete expression in Catholic life without apparent compromise. He seems ready to “let us do the experiment of Tradition” as Archbishop Lefebvre asked so many years ago.

Entire letter here… papastronsay.blogspot.com/2008_04_01_archive.html

Now is simply not the time to *begin *supporting the SSPX. It’s time for the SSPX to reconcile, and continue their work for souls in the mist of todays mainstream catholics. While they remain under the stigma, unjust as it may be, how can they expose fellow catholics to traditional catholicism ?

How wonderful would it be if a SSPX priest were to be assigned to an old church with a High Altar, that is in danger of being closed because of not having enough parishioners to support it’s operation ? There are many such parishes in metro areas, and many now setting idle, due to clustering. Once again, Sacred Polyphony could fill the church by the choirs these SSPX clergy bring with them, while the Mass returns to these treasured Holy Altars.

In the mean time, I’ll pray for more reverent NO’s and assist at our local diocean EF on Sunday. And I’ll attend and pray the NO weekdays. The folks who attend weekday Mass are there due to strong faith, and abuses are minimal. Not to mention the lack of bad choice of music and distractions of the lukewarm one has to tolerate at the Sunday Masses.

God Bless Pope Benedict and his efforts to begin the healing and for taking us by the hand, and gently leading us with baby steps in those cool red shoes of his. I love him.

VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY GOOD POST, Oh, and
did I say that it was a very good post!

I am sooo proud of you for making the stand you have.

 

[Burdock]

im not a catholic but considering the faith . Can you tell me what Norvus ordo and sppx is please.

 

[Margarite]

im not a catholic but considering the faith . Can you tell me what Norvus ordo and sppx is please.

The Novus Ordo is the mass (Catholic worship in which we believe the priest changes bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ) said in the language of the people. Thus in the USA, most Novus Ordo masses are said in English. The proper way to refer to the Novus Ordo is to refer to it as the Ordinary Form of the Mass. The Extraordinary Form of the Mass or the Traditional Latin Mass is said in Latin.

The SSPX is a group who followed a bishop named Lefebvre into excommunication. Archbishop Lefebvre was told by the pope to make certain priest bishops, but Archbishop Lefebvre chose his own priests to make bishops, so he and those bishops were excommunicated, and all the priests that prefer to follow those bishops instead of the bishops appointed by the Pope they say valid but not licit masses (don’t ask me to explain this, maybe someone else can).
Basically the whole issue with the SSPX is that they don’t like the Ordinary Form of the Mass, they only like the Extraordinary Form. The priests refuse to say that the OF is valid, they refuse to say an OF, and the people in the SSPX have the same views as the priests. The SSPX says that they believe that the pope is pope, and that Vatican II (The council that formed the OF) was vaild, yet the refuse to follow the direction of the pope, and refuse to follow the teachings of Vatican II.

In short, the SSPX tells their parishioners that the OF is bad, and that only the EF is good, thus making anyone who attends an OF, or who supports the OF, a fool or a bad person. My family stayed with the Pope, even though we prefer the beauty of the EF. The Church teaches that the pope is infallible in matters of faith and morals, and my family is Catholic, so we believe what the Church teaches, so we believe that the pope is infallible in matters of faith and morals, and so we stayed with the pope.

The reason that many traditional Catholics have trouble attending a OF is that often times the masses are irreverent. Vatican II was a very great document, but it was published in the 60’s, right when the hippies were taking over everything, Vatican II changed allot of things, and most people didn’t take the time to read it, so the hippies just added their own changes and to this day people accept them as dogma. So now we have horrible music, irreverence, and many other abuses plaguing the Church, but Pope Benedict is helping to change it back around and fix the problems.

Sorry for being so long winded, if you need me to rephrase in a couple words here it is

The Novus Ordo or Ordinary Form of the Mass, is the mass begun by Vatican II back in the 1960’s and said in the language of the people. The Traditional Latin mass or Extraordinary Form of the Mass is the mass that has been developed over time since the apostles and it is said in Latin. The SSPX is a group that was excommunicated by the Pope because (this is simplified) they refused to accept the Ordinary Form of the Mass and they wanted to say only the Extraordinary Form.

 

[Margarite]

Most Catholic Churches only have the OF mass, but a growing number have the EF.

There are many traditions in the Church that are forgotten or even contradicted in the OF. And the OF often lacks the reverence that should be present. Those are just a couple of reasons why traditional Catholics prefer the EF. The OF can be beautiful, if you want to see a OF done right, watch EWTN’s mass. If you want to see a EF order the tape from EWTN.

I wonder if it sounds strange to you that we call ourselves Catholic (which means Universal) and yet we are so divided. Well, that is what we traditional Catholics are trying to rectify. Since the 60’s many liberals have taken over the Church, and many of the conservatives seem to have gone into hiding, but now with Pope Benedict as our leader, the trads are coming out in groves and we are banding together to make the Catholic Church universal and beautiful again. Nothing is wrong with the Church, it is only some of the people within the Church who faltered, so we are trying to help the faltering people (some of whom are bishops and cardinals) and we are trying to correct the faltering people and fix what they messed up. Already, we see the beginnings of hope for the future. Most of the young priests, the ones just coming out of the seminary, are AWESOME! They love the Church, they love their vocation, and they are excited to fight the good fight. Also good convents and monasteries are growing like crazy, they are being forced to turn people away because they lack the room to house them.

The Church is recovering from an attack by the liberals, and now the trads are having their day. We will restore the Church to it’s former beauty, and maybe we will make it even more beautiful. It is exciting to be fighting on the side of the right!

I will pray for you on you journey Burdock!

 

[I_Believe]

im not a catholic but considering the faith . Can you tell me what Norvus ordo and sppx is please.

Most of what Margarite said is true. All SSPX clergy are not excommunicated though. The priests are simply suspended. Archbishop Lefevbre, God rest his soul, and the bishops he ordained are the ones excommunicated.

SSPX = Society of Saint Pius X

There are two forms of the liturgy. The Novus Ordo (new ordinary) introduced in 1969. And the Mass that was prayed throughout most of the Church’s history. The old Mass was never abrogated, but it was suppressed, thus leading to division and rejection of the Novus Ordo by many catholics, both clergy and laity alike.

Now, not only has Pope Benedict XVI given all priests the freedom to pray the old Mass using the Missal of 1962, we also see Cardinal Hoyos promoting the old latin Mass. Cardinal Hoyos calls it the Gregorian Mass these days, and The pope has called it the Forma extraordinaria, or, Extraordinay Form. It can get confusing, because the old Mass has had many different labels applied to it. TLM, Mass of the Ages, mass of Pius V, etc.

All I can say is, don’t get caught up in all of this. And don’t base your decision to convert to Catholicism from what you read here on this sub fora. There are two different minsets here. Two different world views. There is division here among catholics, despite Christ’s will of unity. Our Holy Father Pope Benedict has begun the healing process, and it is a wonderful time to convert to Catholicism. Tony Blair has converted, and George Bush is considering it.

But most of all, because Christ willed unity. When He told Peter that he would become the rock upon which His Church would be built, He expressed this will of unity. He said Church, not churches. By the year 107 A.D., all Christians were called Catholics.

The Church was founded in 33 A.D. by Christ Himself. All other churches and religions were started by men.

Sorry to get preachy, but hey, we’d love to have you.

 

[Burdock]

Thanks for replying. I wont get caught up in that i realise it could get complicated. please keep me in your prayers.