Attended a TLM for the first time today

[ChrisCA]

As a young (21yrs old) returning Catholic, I have had a begging curiosity of what the celebration of the Mass was like before my generation.

Well, I did it! I had an opportunity today to go to a TLM about 30 minutes from where I’m visiting for the weekend.

Questions:

How can I tell if the TLM I attended today was a high or low Mass?

There was no entrance procession crucifix, is this the norm?

The readings were different than what was listed on the USCCB site for today. How does this work?

Thanks in advance for your answers!

 

[ProVobis]

How can I tell if the TLM I attended today was a high or low Mass?

Was it sung and how many candles were lit? If there were three on each side and if it was sung, then it was the High Mass or Missa Cantata. If no singing or chanting, Low Mass.

There was no entrance procession crucifix, is this the norm?

I don’t think there’s a norm for this. Sometimes there is a procession, sometimes not.

The readings were different than what was listed on the USCCB site for today. How does this work?

The calendars are different between the forms. Thus the readings as well.

You can check the EF here.

virgomaterdie.com/1962_propers_2011.htm

(If the site is down, you can use the cached version.)

Thanks in advance for your answers!

 

[corsair]

Sounds like you went to a low Mass. In a low Mass the altar boys and the priest enter from the Sacristy. There is no gregorian chant. There may be a couple of hymns offered, possible at the Offeratory and maybe one during Communion. Sometimes even one for a recessional after the Leonine prayers when the priest and altar boys leave the Sanctuary.

A low Mass is well known for its silence and offers the opportunity for some deep contemplation and prayer. No incense but Sanctus bells.

The epistle and Gospel will probaby be different because the EF follows the old calender, not the new one. These readings are in the EF 1962 missal.

The wife and I went an EF (TLM) today too. It was a beautiful low Mass.

 

[ChrisCA]

Was it sung and how many candles were lit? If there were three on each side and if it was sung, then it was the High Mass or Missa Cantata. If no singing or chanting, Low Mass.

There was a small choir of about 3 or 4 persons and an organist. I’m not sure really what is meant by sung though? I remember the choir singing the Kyrie and Gloria and some other prayers. There were 6 lit candles, three on each side on the high altar and on the altar in front that is used for the NO masses there was a single lit candle on each side.

I don’t think there’s a norm for this. Sometimes there is a procession, sometimes not.

The calendars are different between the forms. Thus the readings as well.

You can check the EF here.

virgomaterdie.com/1962_propers_2011.htm

(If the site is down, you can use the cached version.)

Thanks

Sounds like you went to a low Mass. In a low Mass the altar boys and the priest enter from the Sacristy. There is no gregorian chant. There may be a couple of hymns offered, possible at the Offeratory and maybe one during Communion. Sometimes even one for a recessional after the Leonine prayers when the priest and altar boys leave the Sanctuary.

A low Mass is well known for its silence and offers the opportunity for some deep contemplation and prayer. No incense but Sanctus bells.

The epistle and Gospel will probaby be different because the EF follows the old calender, not the new one. These readings are in the EF 1962 missal.

The wife and I went an EF (TLM) today too. It was a beautiful low Mass.

On the rubric sheet I received there it said (paraphrasing) "Rubrics for the Low Mass”, but with the six candles, the priest using the chant, and singing, (and no incense) I was a bit confused if it was really low or high. Also, there was no deacon, it was just the priest, two altar boys, a small choir, and the people

It was really nice here, too. I went with little expectations and just “tried it out” and recognized certain prayers just from the Latin I’ve heard at some NO masses and I instantly knew what was going on at that particular time, otherwise, it was a little confusing to know what was going on. Oh well, it was a wonderful first experience.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

Sounds like a high mass. Maybe for simplicity or cost reasons this particular community hands out the same (low mass) sheet for any mass, high or low. Most frequent TLM goers generally don’t use written rubrics anyway, I believe, or at least don’t follow along word for word through the whole thing. Of course, someone new to the Extraordinary Form will likely find a written guide helpful, and all the more if they don’t know Latin.

 

[ProVobis]

It was really nice here, too. I went with little expectations and just “tried it out” and recognized certain prayers just from the Latin I’ve heard at some NO masses and I instantly knew what was going on at that particular time, otherwise, it was a little confusing to know what was going on. Oh well, it was a wonderful first experience.

Indeed. Because of the similarity in the basic liturgical layout (Confiteor, Introit, Kyrie, Gloria, readings, Credo, etc.), many, if not most, wouldn’t be able to distinguish between the OF entirely in Latin and the EF.

 

[MissRose73]

I am glad you had the chance to go to a TLM. I went to one a few weeks ago, and would love to attend more often as the atmosphere is much more reverent in my opinion. I am sure the more I’d go, I’d understand better and follow along easier.

 

[lizaanne]

I am sure the more I’d go, I’d understand better and follow along easier.

This is absolutely the case. They more you go, the more you follow along in a missal, the more it comes together in your head what’s going on. We were always Novus Ordo Mass goers. But our schedule had us going to an earlier Mass for awhile, which meant the EF, which was not a problem at all for us. We mostly went to the NO Mass because of the time, not the form. After going to the EF for awhile, then going back to the NO, we both decided that we prefer the EF Mass, so we have switched over almost exclusively now.

Ah - terminology :

EF - Extraordinary Form - aka TLM = Traditional Latin Mass
NO - Novus Ordo - aka Mass as most folks know it, in English

~Liza

 

[paperwight66]

This is absolutely the case. They more you go, the more you follow along in a missal, the more it comes together in your head what’s going on. We were always Novus Ordo Mass goers. But our schedule had us going to an earlier Mass for awhile, which meant the EF, which was not a problem at all for us. We mostly went to the NO Mass because of the time, not the form. After going to the EF for awhile, then going back to the NO, we both decided that we prefer the EF Mass, so we have switched over almost exclusively now.

Ah - terminology :

EF - Extraordinary Form - aka TLM = Traditional Latin Mass
NO - Novus Ordo - aka Mass as most folks know it, in English

~Liza

It’s probably best to use the official term, which the Pope prefers i.e O.F -‘Ordinary Form’, not Novus Ordo, as after 40 years it is hardly new any more.

 

[lizaanne]

It’s probably best to use the official term, which the Pope prefers i.e O.F -‘Ordinary Form’, not Novus Ordo, as after 40 years it is hardly new any more.

Both are used commonly here on CAF, and I’ve never seen any prohibition from using the term Novus Ordo.

40 years - that’s a drop in the bucket compared to 2,000 years of Church history. That Mass is still a baby by a long shot.

~Liza

 

[MissRose73]

The Novus Ordo (Ordinary Form) isnt much older than I am. But that is what I was baptized into etc, and the EF / TLM I did like when I attended it, and wish to go more often when I am able.

 

[TrueLight]

Both are used commonly here on CAF, and I’ve never seen any prohibition from using the term Novus Ordo.

40 years - that’s a drop in the bucket compared to 2,000 years of Church history. That Mass is still a baby by a long shot.

~Liza

I try to remember to use EF and OF in the forum, but honestly when I speak to people in real life, they use Novus Ordo pretty regularly.

 

[MarkThompson]

I try to remember to use EF and OF in the forum, but honestly when I speak to people in real life, they use Novus Ordo pretty regularly.

Hm . . . in my experience, people usually just say “the Latin Mass,” but if you write that here twelve people will immediately post to helpfully inform you that, no, the OF can also be celebrated in Latin. Much like how 90%+ of the English-speaking world says “Eucharistic ministers,” but if you tried it here you couldn’t fend off with a stick the clamoring throng of people insisting that only the clunky phrase “extraordinary minister of Holy Communion” will possibly do.

 

[ProVobis]

I try to remember to use EF and OF in the forum, but honestly when I speak to people in real life, they use Novus Ordo pretty regularly.

The terms EF and OF are relatively new. They were only introduced in 2007 so it’s possible most have not heard it or even if they had, have probably dismissed it. Old habits are tough to break, as they say.

 

[TrueLight]

Much like how 90%+ of the English-speaking world says “Eucharistic ministers,” but if you tried it here you couldn’t fend off with a stick the clamoring throng of people insisting that only the clunky phrase “extraordinary minister of Holy Communion” will possibly do.

.

Too true.

I hear TLM and Novus Ordo. Then again, these are coming from traditional Catholics. I did hear one person who attends the OF say “Mass of Paul VI” which I found extremely strange.

 

[TheMc]

.

Too true.

I hear TLM and Novus Ordo. Then again, these are coming from traditional Catholics. I did hear one person who attends the OF say “Mass of Paul VI” which I found extremely strange.

In real life, I use all of the following terms, in the order of most to least:

For the OF:
Ordinary Form
Novus Ordo
The New Mass (rarely)
The English Mass (rarely)

For the EF:
Extraordinary Form
Latin Mass
Old Mass (rarely)

 

[ProVobis]

.

Too true.

I hear TLM and Novus Ordo. Then again, these are coming from traditional Catholics. I did hear one person who attends the OF say “Mass of Paul VI” which I found extremely strange.

Actually this is mentioned in the SP. The EF would be the Mass of Blessed John XXIII.

What I find strange is that some call the OF the Mass of Vatican II, even though Vatican II ordered no new Mass and the old Latin Mass was celebrated every day during the Vatican II sessions.

 

[TheMc]

…even though Vatican II ordered no new Mass and the old Latin Mass was celebrated every day during the Vatican II sessions.

I wouldn’t say that vatican II didn’t want changes, but it didn’t seem to ask for the massive revisions that happened.

SC, No. 4: The Council also desires that, where necessary, the rites be revised carefully in the light of sound tradition, and that they be given new vigor to meet the circumstances and needs of modern times.

 

[ProVobis]

I wouldn’t say that vatican II didn’t want changes, but it didn’t seem to ask for the massive revisions that happened.

SC, No. 4: The Council also desires that, where necessary, the rites be revised carefully in the light of sound tradition, and that they be given new vigor to meet the circumstances and needs of modern times.

Good point. The full statement was: (note the English adds a few words and breaks the thought, creating some ambiquity, IMO.)

1. Traditioni denique fideliter obsequens, Sacrosanctum Concilium declarat Sanctam Matrem Ecclesiam omnes ritus legitime agnitos aequo iure atque honore habere, eosque in posterum servari et omnimode foveri velle, atque optat ut, ubi opus sit, caute ex integro ad mentem sanae traditionis recognoscantur et novo vigore, pro hodiernis adiunctis et necessitatibus, donentur.

1. Lastly, in faithful obedience to tradition, the sacred Council declares that holy Mother Church holds all lawfully acknowledged rites to be of equal right and dignity; that **she wishes to preserve them in the future **and to foster them in every way. The Council also desires that, where necessary, the rites be revised carefully in the light of sound tradition, and that they be given new vigor to meet the circumstances and needs of modern times.

 

[ElToro]

This is absolutely the case. They more you go, the more you follow along in a missal, the more it comes together in your head what’s going on. We were always Novus Ordo Mass goers. But our schedule had us going to an earlier Mass for awhile, which meant the EF, which was not a problem at all for us. We mostly went to the NO Mass because of the time, not the form. After going to the EF for awhile, then going back to the NO, we both decided that we prefer the EF Mass, so we have switched over almost exclusively now.

Ah - terminology :

EF - Extraordinary Form - aka Tridentine Mass -]TLM = Traditional Latin Mass/-]

NO - Novus Ordo - aka Mass as most folks know it, in English

~Liza

NO - Novus Ordo - aka Mass as most folks know it, in English = slur

It’s remarkable you called the EF Mass by it’s correct name yet you referred to the Ordinary Form of the Mass as the “Novus Ordo” and worse “NO.”