Attending a Protestant service when visiting family in lieu of mass?

[awesomecatholic]

You can still go to your family’s protestant church as long as you fulfill your Sunday obligation. I would just go on Saturday night or Sunday afternoon. You could also invite them to mass with you.

 

[Peeps]

Right!

When the Catholic Church starts having hymn sings and actually SINGING, and bringing in Southern Gospel groups, I’ll stop playing piano/organ in Protestant churches.

I love the singing and the hymns in the Protestant churches, and I would probably go once in a while even if I didn’t get hired to play. I especially love it when the Mainline Protestant churches in our city hold pipe organ concerts–glorious! And I love going to gospel concerts (Southern and other)–not likely to ever hear one in a Catholic parish, and why not? Why not hire them for the parish picnic?!

 

[TC3033]

Whenever we go back to my home town my wife has no issue attending my non-Denominational church. She honestly enjoys it and has made some great relationships.

I’m not sure if the rule really is only baptisms, funerals and weddings. There’s a few posters above you with whom I really trust and they seem to disagree with you.

 

[Peeps]

I attend Protestant churches because I play piano/organ (for pay) and I enjoy the music and the fellowship.

But from the time I recognized Jesus, Our Lord, in the Blessed Sacrament, I would never abandon Him for music and fellowship.

Receiving Jesus Christ, Truly Present Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity has been the highlight of my life for the last 15 years (my husband and I were received into the Catholic Church in 2004!).

The LORD is my light and my salvation, not “the joyful noise!”

I do feel badly that we Catholics so often offer non-joyful noise to the Lord through our failure to join in with the hymns with a whole heart and voice (in the OF of the Mass). I also feel lonely for human “fellowship” in the Catholic Church–it’s very hard to find friends who want to spend time together outside of the church doors since everyone in the parish seems to have their “group” already.

But again, as George Beverly Shea (Billy Grahsm’s soloist) always sang, “I’d rather have Jesus.”

 

[TC3033]

OK…I never said it wasn’t

I can understand your opinion from that point, but:

That doesn’t sound like you’re aiming it towards someone contemplating/going through converson but rather towards all Catholics, which from the posters above doesn’t sound accurate…

Like I said, we expect my wife to attend services with my family when we go to my hometown and my wife wouldn’t think of skipping it…¯_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Like I said, we expect my wife to attend services with my family when we go to my hometown and my wife wouldn’t think of skipping it…¯_(ツ)_/¯

Your wife is, hopefully, secure in her Catholic faith.
I would also hope that if your wife decided she did not want to come to your Protestant services any more, that would be okay and would not precipitate a major family crisis, so there is no pressure for her to attend, no family disruption if she does not attend.

The Church today wants to give leeway to people in these types of family situations due to marriage or conversion and wants to also leave the door open for ecumenism and evangelization. However, the Church has always had to balance that with the concern that the Catholic person will decide to just give up Catholicism and switch over to the family member’s Protestant church, whether it’s because the family member is pressuring him to change, or the Protestant church has better music or more fellowship etc, or the Catholic gets hit with some heavy evangelization while they are at the Protestant church and succumbs to it.

This is a real concern for the Church and is also one reason why they discouraged mixed marriages. They don’t want people falling away or having a split allegiance with a foot in both churches.

Like I said, I solved it by just not going to my spouse’s Protestant church ever. This was not a big deal because the only person in his family who normally went was his father, while his mother (fallaway Catholic), his brother, and himself almost never attended for various reasons and there was no pressure or expectation that I would go.

 

[steve-b]

attending Mass as a Catholic is a requirement (unless there’s extenuating circumstances).

True

So why and where does this requirement come from?

The Church and scripture

Heb 10:
23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful; 24 and let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, 25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near. 26 For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful prospect of judgment,and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries. 28 A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."

Unpacking that

1. deliberate Failure to meet on the Day, is already a huge sin “the Day” = the LORD’S DAY / Sunday/ the Day Our Lord Resurrected (v 25)
2. when they meet what are they doing? They are offering the “sacrifice for sin”, (v 26 ) & “blood of the covenant”( v 29) = the words Our Lord spoke instituting the Eucharist Matthew 26:28
   Mark 14:24
   They are celebrating the Mass, the Eucharist
3. Therefore, those who deliberately fail to celebrate the Eucharist on Sunday after being given the knowledge of truth, (v 25 - 26) ◦ no longer remains, a sacrifice for sin and blood of the covenant for THEM( v 26) a fearful prospect of judgement awaits Them (v 27) ◦ and a fury of fire will consume these adversaries (v 27) ◦ They Spurn the Son of God (v 29) ◦ They outrage the spirit of grace (v 29)
   Re: that sin, Based on those consequences described,

Thus

Mass on Sunday is a command (not a suggestion). To deliberately miss Mass on Sunday (given those consequences described) is a mortal sin

 

[TULIPed]

when they meet what are they doing? They are offering the “sacrifice for sin”, (v 26 ) & “blood of the covenant”( v 29) = the words Our Lord spoke instituting the Eucharist

And there’s also this from Psalm 51:

“You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it;
you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings.
17 My sacrifice, O God, is a broken spirit;
a broken and contrite heart
you, God, will not despise.”

And this from Hosea 6:

“For I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice,
the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.”

And this from Micah 6:

“With what shall I come before the Lord,
and bow myself before God on high?
Shall I come before him with burnt offerings,
with calves a year old?
7 Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams,
with ten thousands of rivers of oil?
Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression,
the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?”
8 He has told you, O man, what is good;
and what does the Lord require of you
but to do justice, and to love kindness,
and to walk humbly with your God?”

The point being - I think it’s more than just attending Mass, no? If we attend Mass or church and just go through the motions, just to check the box - might as well not go. We’re commanded to attend with soft and attentive hearts.

 

[TheLittleLady]

In context, this is not talking about going to the Methodist Church with Grammy during Vacation.
http://www.intratext.com/IXT/ENG0017/_P50.HTM

PART II : PENALTIES FOR PARTICULAR OFFENCES

TITLE I: OFFENCES AGAINST RELIGION AND THE UNITY OF THE CHURCH (Cann. 1364 - 1369)

Can. 1364 §1 An apostate from the faith, a heretic or a schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication, without prejudice to the provision of Can. 194 §1, n. 2; a cleric, moreover, may be punished with the penalties mentioned in Can. 1336 §1, nn. 1, 2 and 3.

§2 If a longstanding contempt or the gravity of scandal calls for it, other penalties may be added, not excluding dismissal from the clerical state.

Can. 1365 One who is guilty of prohibited participation in religious rites is to be punished with a just penalty.

Can. 1366 Parents, and those taking the place of parents, who hand over their children to be baptised or brought up in a non-catholic religion, are to be punished with a censure or other just penalty.

Can. 1367 One who throws away the consecrated species or, for a sacrilegious purpose, takes them away or keeps them, incurs a latae sententiae excommunication reserved to the Apostolic See; a cleric, moreover, may be punished with some other penalty, not excluding dismissal from the clerical state.

Can. 1368 A person who, in asserting or promising something before an ecclesiastical authority, commits perjury, is to be punished with a just penalty.

Can. 1369 A person is to be punished with a just penalty, who, at a public event or assembly, or in a published writing, or by otherwise using the means of social communication, utters blasphemy, or gravely harms public morals, or rails at or excites hatred of or contempt for religion or the Church.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

when they meet what are they doing? They are offering the “sacrifice for sin”, (v 26 ) & “blood of the covenant”( v 29) = the words Our Lord spoke instituting the Eucharist

And there’s also this from Psalm 51:

“You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it;
you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings.
17 My sacrifice, O God, is a broken spirit;
a broken and contrite heart
you, God, will not despise.”

And this from Hosea 6:

“For I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice,
the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.”

And this from Micah 6:

“With what shall I come before the Lord,
and bow myself before God on high?
Shall I come before him with burnt offerings,
with calves a year old?
7 Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams,
with ten thousands of rivers of oil?
Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression,
the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?”
8 He has told you, O man, what is good;
and what does the Lord require of you
but to do justice, and to love kindness,
and to walk humbly with your God?”

The OT sacrifice and burnt offerings, you used referred to animal sacrifice. WHICH DID NOTHING … right?

NOT so for the NT sacrifice, the Eucharist which Jesus instituted. As well as the Letter to the Hebrews I referenced.

TULIPed:

The point being - I think it’s more than just attending Mass, no? If we attend Mass or church and just go through the motions, just to check the box - might as well not go. We’re commanded to attend with soft and attentive hearts.

Re: attend Mass or ( church ) as in a Protestant assembly

in short,

NO Eucharist, NO Church

Jesus was crystal clear on this. Do this or else…

Do what?

Jn 6:
53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; 54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

Truly Truly I say to you UNLESS, begins a seriously conditional statement. NOT a suggestion but a command. Jesus is describing the Eucharist. The Mass. If it is NOT followed, what are the consequences for that individual? It’s NOT good for them

 

[TULIPed]

When those passages were written, sacrifice was required - and God still valued where his people’s hearts were. That’s the point of the passages.

Sorry - I mean to say:

attend Mass or church (for Protestants)

 

[TULIPed]

The OT sacrifice and burnt offerings, you used referred to animal sacrifice. WHICH DID NOTHING … right?

Animal sacrifice was required for the atonement of sin. From Leviticus 16:

“He shall then slaughter the goat for the sin offering for the people and take its blood behind the curtain and do with it as he did with the bull’s blood: He shall sprinkle it on the atonement cover and in front of it. 16 In this way he will make atonement for the Most Holy Place because of the uncleanness and rebellion of the Israelites, whatever their sins have been. He is to do the same for the tent of meeting, which is among them in the midst of their uncleanness."

In spite of this - as referenced earlier - God wants soft hearts. In Deuteronomy 30, Moses actually refers to them as “circumcised” hearts.

The question remains - in what condition is our heart when we approach worship?

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

The OT sacrifice and burnt offerings, you used referred to animal sacrifice. WHICH DID NOTHING … right?

Animal sacrifice was required for the atonement of sin. From Leviticus 16:

“He shall then slaughter the goat for the sin offering for the people and take its blood behind the curtain and do with it as he did with the bull’s blood: He shall sprinkle it on the atonement cover and in front of it. 16 In this way he will make atonement for the Most Holy Place because of the uncleanness and rebellion of the Israelites, whatever their sins have been. He is to do the same for the tent of meeting, which is among them in the midst of their uncleanness."

In spite of this - as referenced earlier - God wants soft hearts. In Deuteronomy 31, Moses actually refers to them as “circumcised” hearts.

What they did THEN
was an act of obedience. If it really and actually atoned for their sin, why did we need Jesus? We’d Just stay with the OT…

TULIPed:

The question remains - in what condition is our heart when we approach worship?

to answer that I refer again to obedience

When Jesus gives a command, EVERYONE should obey. After all One can’t say with their lips Jesus is Lord, then not obey Him…right?

I’m sure you know the scriptures I’ve got in mind …

 

[TheLittleLady]

It does seem a thread where you can discuss prior Canon Law and the changes, your opinions on that law, would be a great idea.

 

[TULIPed]

Steve - I love a good debate as much as you do my friend. Having said that, I’m pretty sure my original point isn’t debatable. Every priest, pastor, minister, Father, Brother - anyone with a collar or stripes on their robe would agree with this I think:

We need to worship our King with our hearts and souls engaged. Said another way - if I’m: thinking about my grocery list; staring at my phone; falling asleep; checking out the hot girl/guy in the 3rd row; wondering why the homily is so boring; mad about the music; pondering how I might get back at Jimmy for what he said about me at the fish fry; or otherwise not focused on God, then I’m not being obedient. I’m missing the whole point of worship/Mass.

Just attending Mass isn’t enough. God requires our attendance AND our hearts engaged. Can I get an Amen?

 

[TheLittleLady]

Amen! (10 Chars)

 

[steve-b]

Steve - I love a good debate as much as you do my friend.

As for me, all I can say

I just pass on information. What anybody does with it is up to them. AND I can’t think of anyone in particular where I have changed their mind.

TULIPed:

We need to worship our King with our hearts and souls engaged. Said another way - if I’m: thinking about my grocery list; staring at my phone; falling asleep; checking out the hot girl/guy in the 3rd row; wondering why the homily is so boring; mad about the music; pondering how I might get back at Jimmy for what he said about me at the fish fry; or otherwise not focused on God, then I’m not being obedient. I’m missing the whole point of worship/Mass.

Mass is not just what we do. It is what Jesus does for US even MORE.

Even if my mind is a million miles away, at mass I receive Jesus (body blood soul and Divinity) in the Eucharist.

TULIPed:

Just attending Mass isn’t enough. God requires our attendance

I’d say it a bit differently

Attending Mass faithfully demonstrates an act of our obedience. Therefore we do what God requires.

TULIPed:

AND our hearts engaged. Can I get an Amen?

Yes, Amen, we absolutely should be engaged. But if we aren’t, Jesus still does for us while we ARE THERE. He gives us Himself in thew sacrament.

There is a huge difference between Mass as from a Protestant assembly, whatever the stripe.

The Protestant is NOT obeying the following command(s) Jesus gave

1. Division from Our Lord’s Church and the sacraments He established, is [NOT obeying Jesus prayer “all are to be perfectly one”
2. They don’t have the Eucharist
3. They don’t have the sacrament of reconciliation, to forgive mortal sin

 

[TheLittleLady]

Inattention at Mass is listed in many Examines of Conscience.

This is a good book.

https://www.amazon.com/If-Your-Mind-Wanders-Mass/dp/0898707617

 

[billsannie]

I have a real problem with my mind wandering during the homily. I’ve tried very hard to listen, but sometimes my mind wandered without my even realizing it. (Maybe it’s a family thing. My mother nearly always feel asleep during the homily.)

But once my efforts to listen wound up costing me dearly. I’ve suffered from acute depression all my life. The story is too long to go into detail, but at this time I was facing the loss of my parents, the only support system I had. My depression was off the rails and my spiritual condition was very delicate. As it happened, the priest, likely having spiritual problems of his own, gave a homily which seemed to say that God would not always listen to our prayers and would sometimes arbitrarily refuse us. I knew better, but between my depression, despair, and my Catholic sense that “the priest knows right” I was precipitated into a spiritual crisis that lasted for years, and left scars on my soul that still trouble me. Maybe always paying attention during Mass isn’t always such a good idea!

 

[Gorgias]

if that’s the case and I were to convert, I wouldn’t want to visit my Protestant family and then go to Mass by myself on Sundays

It’s a “both/and” question, not an “either/or” one, don’t you think? Why couldn’t you go to Catholic Mass and also attend a Protestant service with your family?