Attending EF form with no head covering

[ringil]

I guess I’m puzzled. If a woman chooses to attend the TLM I would assume it is because of some degree of respect for that traditional rite as well as some level of discomfort with the Ordinary Form of the Mass. Why then would that same woman choose to rebel against the customary head covering, expected but sadly not required when attending the TLM? I don’t get it; is there something demeaning about traditional dress which includes head covering and a proper and modest dress and for the men; no jeans, no printed T-shirts and uncovering the head when in church?

We attend the EF sometimes because the time works works for our family.

We also find it lovely. For us Mass is Mass. We go to Maronite, OF, and EF, depending on convinience.

Oh, and I wear jeans to mass at times. No tennis shoes or tee-shirts though

 

[ringil]

So basically you want to to split Catholics into two, the fervent EF supporters who want it as their own and the others. I attend OF masses. I would want to attend an EF mass ever so often but it looks like I would not be welcome if those like you have their way. Where is the universal Church then?

Indeed, but, thanks God, that has not been my experience. My family has felt welcome at the EF parishes we have attended.

 

[severus68]

Indeed, but, thanks God, that has not been my experience. My family has felt welcome at the EF parishes we have attended.

Thank you, that is good to hear. I do agree mass is mass.

 

[TrueLight]

This is getting a bit ridiculous. No one is going to stare you down if you walk into an EF with jeans or with your head uncovered. It is a fact that if you attend a diocesan EF mass regularly and exclusively, you will in time start to dress like those around you. That is human nature.

If you attend a traditional parish like the FSSP, there is a dress code and that code is based on modesty and respect. You may disagree, but it has nothing to do with being elitist. You can choose to ignore the dress code, but most likely, you will eventually conform without anyone saying a word to you.

If you attend an SSPX mass regularly, not as a visitor, and you come in jeans every Sunday, you will probably be spoken to, but I’m sure most of you don’t have to worry about attending an SSPX mass.

I think it’s time to stop painting traditional catholics who attend the EF as people who are elitist or who only care about appearances. Respect goes both ways.

By the way, Friday is dress down day at my company and I tend to wear jeans. If I go to a mass on Friday evening, then I am wearing jeans. No one says anything to me or looks askance at me. However, I know that people dress in their Sunday best (whatever your best may be), so on Sundays, I will wear a skirt or a dress.

Again, if is is not your cup of tea, and you’re a tee and jeans type of person, you are free to attend another mass. EF masses are only a small percentage of the masses that are out there.

Part of being the universal church is also respecting people’s traditions, so please show some respect.

Thank you.

 

[LightBound]

Do they really?

Yes, they do. Just a quick internet search will also yield results of Bishop Williamson’s comments, including his infamous remarks that girls don’t need anything past high school since it would be sinful for them to do anything other than be a wife and mother and how women shouldn’t be driving vehicles, either.

Now, in all fairness, perhaps not all SSPX chapels and priests hold these views of women, but the general consensus seems to be headed that way.

 

[anodos]

Yes, they do. Just a quick internet search will also yield results of Bishop Williamson’s comments, including his infamous remarks that girls don’t need anything past high school since it would be sinful for them to do anything other than be a wife and mother and how women shouldn’t be driving vehicles, either.

Now, in all fairness, perhaps all SSPX chapels and priests hold other views of women, but the general consensus seems to be headed that way.

Suddenly I feel like I’ve actually accomplished something in life…I have a pickup truck…

 

[severus68]

This is getting a bit ridiculous. No one is going to stare you down if you walk into an EF with jeans or with your head uncovered. It is a fact that if you attend a diocesan EF mass regularly and exclusively, you will in time start to dress like those around you. That is human nature.

If you attend a traditional parish like the FSSP, there is a dress code and that code is based on modesty and respect. You may disagree, but it has nothing to do with being elitist. You can choose to ignore the dress code, but most likely, you will eventually conform without anyone saying a word to you.

If you attend an SSPX mass regularly, not as a visitor, and you come in jeans every Sunday, you will probably be spoken to, but I’m sure most of you don’t have to worry about attending an SSPX mass.

I think it’s time to stop painting traditional catholics who attend the EF as people who are elitist or who only care about appearances. Respect goes both ways.

By the way, Friday is dress down day at my company and I tend to wear jeans. If I go to a mass on Friday evening, then I am wearing jeans. No one says anything to me or looks askance at me. However, I know that people dress in their Sunday best (whatever your best may be), so on Sundays, I will wear a skirt or a dress.

Again, if is is not your cup of tea, and you’re a tee and jeans type of person, you are free to attend another mass. EF masses are only a small percentage of the masses that are out there.

Part of being the universal church is also respecting people’s traditions, so please show some respect.

Thank you.

You appear to be referring to me.

Firstly, I was responding to one particular post and the strong views put forward there. It is far from ridiculous to not want Catholics to be split into two groups.

Secondly, I have no issues with the EF, anyone attending it, preferring it.

Thirdly, I have no issues with the Tradition of the Church. What traditions are those please that I am not respecting? I would ask you then whetherconversely, non traditional parishes are about immodesty and disrespect.

Finally, I would think no one has the right to tell anyone who wants to go to any Mass, EF or OF, that they can’t or should not.

 

[TrueLight]

You did use the word elitist, but I wasn’t referring to you specifically, otherwise, I would definitely start my comments with “Severus”. I was referring to all the naysayers. And I’m sorry if I came across a little harsh. I’m just somewhat frustrated.

All I’m saying is that there is no reason to criticize parishes whose custom is to cover. Every parish has its own culture based on the people who attend. If you go to a parish in an affluent area, it will have a different flavor, if you will, from one in a poorer neighborhood.

EF parishes also have a culture, that being a desire to preserve some pious practices that are no longer practiced or have fallen out of favor.

Everyone has a choice.

 

[Ohana]

Dear True Light. I completely agree with you that we need more acceptance of diversitiy in our Catholic expressions of our faith. I wish some of the people who post on the EF and OF liturgies felt the same way. It is one thing to share with each other what moves us in Mass and want others to understand; quite another to finger-point and call people either elitist or irreverent because of how we choose to worship. Severus reaction was kind of a knee-jerk reaction that some of us have on these threads.

It seems to me that there are a growing number of people posting who are becoming more accepting and less critical of differences. Perhaps the polarization was a necessary step in coming to this. Whatever, the process, I will remain in the 'accept diversity, even celebrate it" camp.

PS: I wear a head covering when my head is cold. My heart is warm though.

 

[Bob_Aliano]

Dear True Light. I completely agree with you that we need more acceptance of diversitiy in our Catholic expressions of our faith. I wish some of the people who post on the EF and OF liturgies felt the same way. It is one thing to share with each other what moves us in Mass and want others to understand; quite another to finger-point and call people either elitist or irreverent because of how we choose to worship. Severus reaction was kind of a knee-jerk reaction that some of us have on these threads.

It seems to me that there are a growing number of people posting who are becoming more accepting and less critical of differences. Perhaps the polarization was a necessary step in coming to this. Whatever, the process, I will remain in the 'accept diversity, even celebrate it" camp.

PS: I wear a head covering when my head is cold. My heart is warm though.

The tolerance you describe leads inevitably to a breakdown of traditional values, liturgical abuse and disrespect for the Liturgy. We were tolerant during the seventies and wound up with all manner of abuse including folk music, inappropriate instrumentation, self-intinction of the Host, immodest attire and a casualness of attitude that is highly disrespectful of Our Lord. Church is the one place where we must lay aside our personal preferences, it is enough that we have two forms of Mass from which to select. If the traditions of the more conservative Liturgical culture are unsuitable to one’s preference then find a parish that is more casual, trying to break down the culture of the conservative parish will lead to resentment and probably make one unwelcome.

 

[severus68]

The tolerance you describe leads inevitably to a breakdown of traditional values, liturgical abuse and disrespect for the Liturgy. We were tolerant during the seventies and wound up with all manner of abuse including folk music, inappropriate instrumentation, self-intinction of the Host, immodest attire and a casualness of attitude that is highly disrespectful of Our Lord. Church is the one place where we must lay aside our personal preferences, it is enough that we have two forms of Mass from which to select. If the traditions of the more conservative Liturgical culture are unsuitable to one’s preference then find a parish that is more casual, trying to break down the culture of the conservative parish will lead to resentment and probably make one unwelcome.

No one is trying to break down the culture of the trad parishes. On the other hand, no one should be made unwelcome in any Catholic church, not allowed to receive the Eucharist or not allowed in.

I have read many criticisms here about OF masses but no one here has done the same about the EF.

 

[piouswoman]

Good for them. Perhaps they’d like to inform their penitents that they don’t have the faculties to hear confessions therefore they haven’t actually absolved anyone of their sins and that they should seek out their nearest priest who actually does have the faculties to hear Confessions.

Really, I don’t care what the SSPX expect. They also think it’s a mortal sin for a woman to wear pants.

I don’t approve of the whole EF and OF separation or the idea of there being separate parishes for EF and OF Masses. I think having the two under one roof keeps each from going off into the ditch on the extreme side.

No…it isn’t good for them. It is an indication of the sspx believing that they are the church, they know better than the church. They are elitist. And they don’t like women showing up in pants, and if they do, they’ll tell them. They don’t like women in their chapels without veils and if a women goes in without one, the usher or one of the ‘cult-member’ women will bring one to them to put on…don’t think I’m making this up, I’ve seen it first hand and I’ve experienced it…and furthermore…they look down upon “conciliar” Catholics or “novus ordo” Catholics…that’s what they call you…because they consider themselves to be “the remnant”.

 

[severus68]

No…it isn’t good for them. It is an indication of the sspx believing that they are the church, they know better than the church. They are elitist. And they don’t like women showing up in pants, and if they do, they’ll tell them. They don’t like women in their chapels without veils and if a women goes in without one, the usher or one of the ‘cult-member’ women will bring one to them to put on…don’t think I’m making this up, I’ve seen it first hand and I’ve experienced it…and furthermore…they look down upon “conciliar” Catholics or “novus ordo” Catholics…that’s what they call you…because they consider themselves to be “the remnant”.

I think DeoGratias was being sarcastic.
Following from hat you have said, I cannot understand why some trads go or want to go to SSPX chapels when here aare alternatives available. Surely going to an OF mass when no EF mass is available is better than supporting the SPPX.

 

[piouswoman]

I think DeoGratias was being sarcastic.
Following from hat you have said, I cannot understand why some trads go or want to go to SSPX chapels when here aare alternatives available. Surely going to an OF mass when no EF mass is available is better than supporting the SPPX.

I don’t know if DeoGratias was being sarcastic or not…the SSPX is a sore spot for me now.
I agree with you, there is no reason on earth for any ‘trad’ to go to a SSPX chapel when there is an alternative…and if there is no alternative…then go to the OF.

The SSPX are absolutely elitist…and the faithful that go to their chapels have an idea that they are the remnant…many have an unkind attitude towards anyone who isn’t ‘traditional’.

 

[TrueLight]

Can we not turn this thread into an SSPX thread PLEASE?

 

[piouswoman]

Can we not turn this thread into an SSPX thread PLEASE?

Why can’t we? The SSPX is the big ‘trad’ problem that won’t go away.

 

[TrueLight]

Why can’t we? The SSPX is the big ‘trad’ problem that won’t go away.

Why not start another thread? This is about covering your head and possibly modesty.

 

[piouswoman]

Why not start another thread? This is about covering your head and possibly modesty.

When we’re talking about modesty and covering your hair with a veil, it encompasses the sspx…many people go there for the EF, there is no getting around that fact…someone mentioned the sspx…I offered my opinion based on my knowledge of having gone there.

May I ask why you are so hostile to the mention of the sspx? Believe me, I’m no fan of theirs.

 

[TrueLight]

When we’re talking about modesty and covering your hair with a veil, it encompasses the sspx…many people go there for the EF, there is no getting around that fact…someone mentioned the sspx…I offered my opinion based on my knowledge of having gone there.

May I ask why you are so hostile to the mention of the sspx? Believe me, I’m no fan of theirs.

I’m not hostile to the SSPX. I just don’t feel every thread has to turn into an SSPX bashing thread. But that’s all I’m saying. Carry on!

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

I don’t know if DeoGratias was being sarcastic or not…the SSPX is a sore spot for me now.
I agree with you, there is no reason on earth for any ‘trad’ to go to a SSPX chapel when there is an alternative…and if there is no alternative…then go to the OF.

The SSPX are absolutely elitist…and the faithful that go to their chapels have an idea that they are the remnant…many have an unkind attitude towards anyone who isn’t ‘traditional’.

I was being sarcastic.

As far as I see headcovering, if you want to cover your head, go nuts. Church law does not require it anymore, therefore those who choose not to should be left free to make that decision. I do not support parishes that take it upon themselves to make their own parish rules requiring such or other dress codes. When it comes to dressing ourselves for Mass we should be able to use our own common sense for what’s appropriate for Mass. Issues arising with those who seem to be struggling with this, should be handled on an individual level tactfully and charitably by the priest. If it becomes a mass majority issue, it should be addressed from the pulpit.