Attending Lent/Easter services or not

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scared:
If you are angry and resentful at mass, it is better for you to be there. I have asked this very question of a very learned priest, his answer is if you come to mass angry and hard hearted what are you gaining? Nothing. The hardened heart will not allow the light of christ to enter. You only become more angry for having to be there, God doesn’t want to force anyone to enter his house, he wants them to come willingly.
You seem to make your anger out to be a completely involuntary phenomenon. An extreme example to illustrate the point; a perfect stranger could well approach you on the street, wind up, and punch you. Initially, of course, a certain retributive anger is quite reasonable–the action was unjust. But if, months later, you call up the same intense, visceral anger whenever the memory of that aggressor comes to mind, well, then the anger is not something involuntary or beyond your control–you are willing it.

The same can be said in this situation. Upon entering a Church, what is it that compels you to adopt such anger? To be blunt, let it go.
And yes, being told to leave is the churh’s scorn.
No, it is not. You have elevated this one priest with whom you have such difficulties to be the whole of the Church.

The Church is 1.2 billion Catholics strong, and many of them on this same thread have shown you anything but scorn. Your statement is not true, therefore, and it would be best to understand that the Church is composed of more than one priest and more than any people in your parish with whom you have difficulties.
I was even willing to see a lay spiritual director, I was told however, that they would not be helpful they simply don’t have what I need. In my situation I need to have the sacraments often. With a priest as a spiritual director I could attain that. But first I have to find the priest that is willing to invest his time and patience and so far that isn’t happening.
And who was it that told you this? If the priest is not working, find a lay director, or even a nun or a monk. To reiterate the concept of love, it is an act of will. Tacitly accepting another’s judgment that you can only be directed by a priest, trying ONE priest, and then saying “Oh, it did not happen, so there won’t be any direction for me” is not making the effort and the act of will.
The state of my soul is already in deep jeopardy. Not going to mass isn’t going to make it and deeper in jeopardy.
This is completely untrue. Deliberately missing Mass is a mortal sin. To say that committing a mortal sin would NOT put your soul in deeper jeopardy is false. I’m sure you know this, but you are permitting some of your sorrow to override reason.
You asked if I pray, No I haven’t been able to do that for some time now.
Are you physically unable to kneel, or even sit in a chair, and speak in your mind as with a friend? People struggling with the worst of doubts can pray. To say “God, I am unsure of Your existence” is itself a prayer.
I have taken steps to get help from the church, it doesn’t want to help, it doesn’t want to take the time to help me foster my doubts and possilby find God
An important question here; ideally, from your perspective, what could the Church do to help you? Do you think that, in the end, it will be someone else who restores your resolve to love God? Or will it be your own act of will?

To repeat, the Church is not 1 priest. Some of the Church is right here on this forum, and that part is concerned. In what way can people “foster your doubts” (I assume you mean “dismiss” rather than “foster”)? The tools have been provided; Peter Kreeft’s arguments, St. Thomas Aquinas’s proofs for the existence of God, the links to accounts of approved miracles such as Lanciano or Fatima, accounts of the lives of saints, even those of the 20th century who worked great miracles aided by God…what else could there be? Faith is not an emotional state–you choose to accept God’s testimony of Himself. Right there, you can choose. You do not have to “feel” comfortable about it, sense it with any of your 5 senses, “feel” happy about it, or anything else of the sort. It is an interior “yes” or an interior “no.”

Your descriptions of your troubles are vague, but if you answer those questions, others might be able to better help when they have a more solid grasp of the problem.
 
Hello scared;

It sounds like you might profit greatly from St. Therese and her “Story of a Soul.” In it she describes the dark night of the soul, and that sounds a lot like what you’re going through. She had great doubts, and yet she went on to become a Doctor of the Church! I think you would very much enjoy reading her story; she’s good stuff.

CathChemNerd
ps I apologize if someone else offered this advice, I had to skip to the end.
 
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CathChemNerd:
Hello scared;

It sounds like you might profit greatly from St. Therese and her “Story of a Soul.” In it she describes the dark night of the soul, and that sounds a lot like what you’re going through. She had great doubts, and yet she went on to become a Doctor of the Church! I think you would very much enjoy reading her story; she’s good stuff.

CathChemNerd
ps I apologize if someone else offered this advice, I had to skip to the end.
Well said CCN…I am keeping Scared in my personal intentions as I think too she is undergoing a spiritual trial akin to St. Therese whose problem was that she had temptations and doubts about the existence of Heaven which brought her great pain and torment and I think it was during her final illness…Scared and the dynamics of her own problem are very similar only different in subject matter.

Well insighted to me CCN!..Barb
I think The Dark Night may be far more common than we realize…intensity and duration only differ.
 
Hi again Scared…I keep coming back to this thread hoping that you have posted again and am keeping you in my heart and prayers as Holy Week and Easter approach.
I’m giving rough treatment in my parish from time to time Scared, so I have some insight anyway with where you are coming from and certainly I can empathize…I had a long journey of near on twenty years with a crisis in faith in the past that was a real roller coaster ride for me and involved illness, homelessness, abandonment by family, friends and my religion (Catholicism)…and am long skilled in rejection…but I made it through ok and faith intact and I am hoping and praying you will too…

Barb:wave:
 
Dear Scared,

Maybe I am way off base here, but after reading your original post and then subsequent posts I noticed you mentioned that the priest said maybe you shouldn’t come to Mass until your counseling was complete. I know you said that may be a long time. I don’t want to imply anything here or for it to be taken the wrong way, but that comment really struck me as the core here.

I don’t know what happened to you and I understand you’re not wanting to share that. I have a sister who had some terrible things happen to her, I too will not share that, it isn’t my place. She has struggled all her life, and has suffered greatly. Her faith life has suffered too. She has been in and out of the Church, and many different churches too. If you have been seriously wounded, it is any wonder you question the very exsistance of God? Of course not. All the suggestions people have given are wonderful…but you may be raw and hurting and not ready mentally or emotionally to “suck it up”. Please don’t give up. But could it be that maybe the priest knows you have a mental or emotional trauma that needs to be delt with in therapy a little more before you can go further down your spiritual path? My mother was worried when my sister left the Church, my sister was so angry. Well heck yes she was, she was questioning how something so awful could happen to her! It had nothing to do with Church, it had to do with the evil choice someone made, but still she couldn’t take it out on that person. The priest told my mother that my sister was in God’s care and that under her mental state it isn’t the same as someone else who just blatantly rejects God.
Do you know what I mean? I don’t know if I’m expressing it right.

I think there is a much deeper issue here and I don’t think we’re qualified to say. Have you talked to your counselor about this?
I might get pummeled but…what about taking a break from going to Mass, drop the kids off. Have someone bring you communion, if possible. Keep your prayer life up at home, even if you are going through the motions, and continue with counseling. Ask your counselor what he/she thinks.

God loves you right where you are, right how you are, and He understands this whole situation, every aspect of it. He knows your struggle and your heart. Yell at Him if you need too…He can take it. I will be praying most earneastly for you. I hope you keep us informed.
 
Nana Rose:
Dear Scared,

Maybe I am way off base here, but after reading your original post and then subsequent posts I noticed you mentioned that the priest said maybe you shouldn’t come to Mass until your counseling was complete. I know you said…
EDITED FOR WORD COUNT, PLEASE SEE NANA ROSE’S POST
…your counselor about this?
I might get pummeled but…what about taking a break from going to Mass, drop the kids off. Have someone bring you communion, if possible. Keep your prayer life up at home, even if you are going through the motions, and continue with counseling. Ask your counselor what he/she thinks.

God loves you right where you are, right how you are, and He understands this whole situation, every aspect of it. He knows your struggle and your heart. Yell at Him if you need too…He can take it. I will be praying most earneastly for you. I hope you keep us informed.
Hello there Nana Rose…your Post sure has my vote absolutely. Very insightful, sensitive, spiritually wise and affirming and very sound good advice I thought. Excellent Post.

God’s Ways are indeed not ours and during my own difficulties many years ago, I took a break from attending Mass for quite a while at one stage…it just got all too painful and confusing for me and God insighted this and I knew it…even if other people could not. I made many Spritual Communions: “Dear Jesus, since I cannot now receive you sacramentally, please come into my heart spiritually and remain with me forever”

Excellent insight too MR, that we do not have to push ourselves to intolerable limits, but to insight that God’s Ways are indeed not ours and do all we can to reduce stress. I think, Nana Rose, you have insighted profoundly without stating direct perhaps, that one can make all the adjustments necessary whatever they are (“necessity overrides every law” St. Albert in the Ancient Rule of Carmel) and simply trust God all the way and through all those necessary adjustments. We may not be keeping the letter of the law…but we are in the spirit of it …the letter of the law can indeed kill. Over and above this God is our Loving Father and Jesus our loving brother… who understand that we are only human and also read our hearts and know the pain we are in…and know with concern for us.

I have tremendous admiration for Scared, for it is her children more than anything that she is taking into consideration. Scared, children are very resilient, very…and as a Mom I am sure you can give them an explanation that they would be secure with if you did decide to take up Nana Rose’s suggestion that you just drop them off at Mass…and if you haven’t already do seek a counsellor, psychologist or psychiatrist to help you emotionally and mentally through this painful time. One word of caution in that direction, never allow anyone to undermine your Faith and trust in God, this is spiritual and not emotional or mental.

Great Post with good sound advice.

Barb:)
Scared, I think and prayerfully of you daily and even moreso as Holy Week and Easter approach.
 
Dear Barbs. am very sorry,for not puting up something earlier and i was touched and as well moved.As for me most of the time what i do is to pray for members and people who found themself in difficult times. so bars be couragious.and always be in touch with her, as well be giving her words of encouragement while i keep praying for her, that all may be well with her and that she may be in good health in jesus name.
 
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dave2:
Dear Barbs. am very sorry,for not puting up something earlier and i was touched and as well moved.As for me most of the time what i do is to pray for members and people who found themself in difficult times. so bars be couragious.and always be in touch with her, as well be giving her words of encouragement while i keep praying for her, that all may be well with her and that she may be in good health in jesus name.
Hi there Dave…some of my friends do call me Barbs and you are one of them. I think always prayer is most important…in fact if a person appears to be speaking like angels, but does not pray then those words may appear enlightened in some way, but not the words of the angels. Prayer is very important…“pray as if everything depended on prayer and work as if everything depended on work” (Bishop Fulton Sheen)
Prayer ensures that The Lord is the beginning and end of all that we do, think and say huh?
It sounds to me Dave perhaps you are a contemplative spirit whose great work and prime role is to pray and to pray for others from the heart and a great work, a great work indeed.
Scared, I think has chosen her tag well, because that is just what she really is feeling Scared…The Lord knows this and He will care for her for sure. It may be a long road over a long time but I am confident that her soul is very safe, but meanwhile she is suffering in very human ways and hence my own heart goes out to her with concern as many of the posters herein do.

Thanks Dave for the words of affirmation and encouragement and another very very important work you are about “every day as long as each day lasts keep encouraging one another” (Introductory, Divine Office).

I am going to post in my next post a link to a sermon by the Vatican Chaplin re Jesus in Gethsamane and our own little Gethsamane’s and dark nights. I hope Scared is still reading this thread and that the sermon may be of some help to her and encouragement in a very very difficult time.

Cacha around Dave and will look forwared to it…Barb:wave:
 
Hi there Scared…I hope you are still reading the Posts in this thread.
I thought of you immediately when I read this sermon.

http://catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0829.html
**“And Being in Agony He Prayed More Earnestly” **
**FR. RANIERO CANTALAMESSA **

Here is a translation of the Lenten sermon delivered on March 17, 2006, by Capuchin Father Raniero Cantalamessa in the presence of Benedict XVI and officials of the Roman Curia. The Pontifical Household preacher delivered it in the Mater Redemptoris Chapel of the Apostolic Palace.

What follows is an extract only from the overall homily on the above link:
"…Human life is strewn with many little nights of Gethsemane. The causes can be very numerous and different: a threat to our health, a lack of appreciation of the environment, the indifference of someone close to us, the fear of the consequences of some error committed.
But there can be more profound causes: the loss of the meaning of God, the overwhelming awareness of one’s sin and unworthiness, the impression of having lost the faith.** In short, what the saints have called “the dark night of the soul.”** …"
 
Dear “scared”,

I just wanted to let you know that you are still in my prayers.
 
Hi Dorthy and BarbaraTherese:
and Nana Rose

First Nana Rose:
Yes, my pp is aware of everything, yes the counsellor is aware of what has happened with the pp. In his opinion leaving mass even for the short term is a devistating and non helpful way to deal with the situation. This is a very deep and painful thing to deal with, it has a profound effect on my spiritual life. If I leave chances are very good I will never ever return. Staying causes extreme distress. It really is a no win situation.

Things are no better, infact far worse. Someone has intervined between myself and my pp. The problem is I don’t trust him or the church anymore. My pp asked me to receive annointing of the sick it is the last time I was in a church. I bolted after mass, I could hardly breath. I will still take my children drop them off so they can continue with their commitments.

With Holy week shortly upon us I am sure I will not attend. How can I enter and worship a God I am not sure exists? And if he does hates me so much? Again a no win situation.

Thank you for your thoughts.

scared
 
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scared:
Hi Dorthy and BarbaraTherese:
and Nana Rose

First Nana Rose:
Yes, my pp is aware of everything, yes the counsellor is aware of what has happened with the pp. In his opinion leaving mass even for the short term is a devistating and non helpful way to deal with the situation. This is a very deep and painful thing to deal with, it has a profound effect on my spiritual life. If I leave chances are very good I will never ever return. Staying causes extreme distress. It really is a no win situation.

Things are no better, infact far worse. Someone has intervined between myself and my pp. The problem is I don’t trust him or the church anymore. My pp asked me to receive annointing of the sick it is the last time I was in a church. I bolted after mass, I could hardly breath. I will still take my children drop them off so they can continue with their commitments.

With Holy week shortly upon us I am sure I will not attend. How can I enter and worship a God I am not sure exists? And if he does hates me so much? Again a no win situation.

Thank you for your thoughts.

scared
Dear “scared”,

I assure you the Lord loves you with an infinite love. If we here in this thread love you and want to pray for you because you are hurting…then imagine how much Jesus loves you, which is where we get our love from.

I pray that the root of this problem is confronted, vanishes, and that the Peace of Christ with His healong love takes its place.
 
Scared, Our Lord doesn’t hate you, He may be refining you or directing you through these problems you are having during mass. I was also offered the anointing of the sick, but have not done this yet. Maybe we can both do this, in Spirit, together with the help of our Lord Jesus Christ, My prayers are with you and my thoughts will be with you when I receive the anointing of the sick. Preservere in Hope and Faith, Your brother in Christ, Tim
 
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TOP:
Scared, Our Lord doesn’t hate you, He may be refining you or directing you through these problems you are having during mass. I was also offered the anointing of the sick, but have not done this yet. Maybe we can both do this, in Spirit, together with the help of our Lord Jesus Christ, My prayers are with you and my thoughts will be with you when I receive the anointing of the sick. Preservere in Hope and Faith, Your brother in Christ, Tim
Yes, and many graces come through this Sacrament!
 
Hello:

I have received annointing of the sick a couple of different times for different things. It is an extremely powerful sacrament, at least I use to think so. This time not so, I feel terribly ill with 24 hours of receiving it. It is one of the reasons that I am sure that if God exists he is really mad at me.

I do recommend it however, the power that is felt when received and accepted is more than I can describe.

scared
 
Dear Scared,
I echo what others have already said, “God loves you with an infinite love.” We here on this post are sinners and imperfect, yet we are praying for you and our love and concern is going out to you, so then how much more can God’s love be, for he is Perfection of Love. You do not have to do anything for him to love you with this perfect love.
It sounds to me that whatever it is you are suffering from is no fault of your own, so perhaps you need to talk with your counselor and discuss the guilt you are feeling that God is punishing you. I for one, have been a very grave sinner, and yet praise God, because through the love and sacrifice of Christ I have been forgiven. Read the gospels where Jesus keeps teaching and reafirming a loving Father who calls to us and loves us.

Does whatever you are going to counseling for have to do with your priest? You don’t have to say, I just am not understanding if you are in counseling for something that happened related to the church/priest or something else. That I am sure makes a huge difference in how you deal with this. If your counselor says that avoiding Mass won’t help, then I would say listen to them. I will keep you in my prayers, and I go to Eucharistic Adoration on Thursdays, and will pray for you there. Please keep in touch with us and let us know how you are. :blessyou:
 
Hello Nana Rose:

I am struggling even believing in God, let alone thinking he loves me. At least if I think he hates me then I am accepting he is real.

My situation is very complex. It has many different aspects. My pp was the unfortunate one that I went to for help. His response and unwillingness to help with the spiritual part has lead me to no longer trust him. He is however, in no way related to what had happened in my past. That being said, there are past issues with the church/clergy. There is no easy way to deal with it. Being told to leave was the last straw, any hope of reconcilling with the church virtually disappear. Sort of like being kick when your down.

I appreciate all the thoughts and even though I don’t believe and can’t do them myself the prayers.

scared
 
Scared,
Brother don’t give up hope. please read Psalm 86. I was just in the hospital for depression. God worked his ways in there. I was in a dark place, but He lifted the fog. Trust Him, Tim
 
Dear Scared,

Thinking of you today and offering up prayers for you. I know this will be a difficult week, but you are not alone. Today thinking of the reading of our Lord’s Passion, you came to mind. He was the unblemmished lamb given up for us, for you and me. Lean on Him this Easter, He surely knows your pain. Some of us have been innocent victims of others abuse and hurt, we don’t ask for it, God didn’t give it to us, and yet we are victims because of the sin of others. Just like Christ. My prayers will be for your healing, and for Christ to lift you up and carry you to a better place in your life. You don’t have to figure everything out before Easter, just take whatever time you need in counseling and know that God above knows your every need and He understands what has brought you to this point. And He loves you regardless of what ever has happened.
Wishing you peace this week and praying for it.
:blessyou:
 
Thank You everyone for your thoughts and prayers.

I have fought and lost. There is no God or Jesus in my life. I have stopped going to mass. I am have come to realize that even if I were to stay in the Catholic Church, I couldn’t recieve the one sacarment that I truely need - confession. I have come to realize that I don’t trust clergy, I know that is painting all of them with one brush. I won’t allow myself to be hurt again by a priest. I just can’t stay. My children will continue to go.

Again thank you

scared
 
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