Attending Mass at a Calvinistic Church

[Sy_Noe]

Ditto. I was treated pretty cruddy at the wife and kid’s two parishes and have read some of the same sentiments here as well. It was all a real culture shock learning how some think of and treat others. I grew up and was raised to see Catholics as other Christians part of our large overall family. Once I started going to Mass with the wife and reading here, I quickly learned that’s not how many Catholics see Protestants.

I was raised Catholic and was raised the same way as you were. I think that is why discussions like this are always somewhat mind boggling to me. The priest in my parish as I was growing up and the PCUSA pastor in town were best of friends. There was an ecumenical clergy association in town. The priest and many of the Protestant pastors gathered regularly for breakfast at the town diner. When my Catholic mother was in the hospital, I still remember the PCUSA pastor visiting and asking if she minded if they prayed together. Of course she didn’t. The priest visited too. Had they been there at the same time I have no doubt they would have prayed together as brothers in Christ with my mother their sister. My small hometown, mostly Protestant, would hold ecumenical services. They’d be in the Presbyterian or one of the Baptists or the UMC and I recall even in the Catholic church. Father would attend them. The PCUSA pastor and others came to our parish for them.

 

[rcwitness]

Well I’m not welcomed to dine with the Lord in the Catholic Church even if I discern his body because I have warts. Even though he said he would turn no one away. As another said, where 2 are there he is.

Hey, warts can be removed!!!

It’s not the Church you should worry about having warts with. She just wants to remove them, like Jesus does.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Hey, warts can be removed!!!

It’s not the Church you should worry about having warts with. She just wants to remove them, like Jesus does.

Luke 19:5-7 When he reached the place, Jesus looked up and said to him, “Zacchaeus, come down quickly, for today I must stay at your house.” 6 And he came down quickly and received him with joy. 7 When they all saw this, they began to grumble, saying, “He has gone to stay at the house of a sinner.” (New American Bible Revised Edition)

Matthew 9:11, The Pharisees saw this and said to his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners? (New American Bible Revised Edition)

 

[rcwitness]

Luke 19:5-7 When he reached the place, Jesus looked up and said to him, “Zacchaeus, come down quickly, for today I must stay at your house.” 6 And he came down quickly and received him with joy. 7 When they all saw this, they began to grumble, saying, “He has gone to stay at the house of a sinner.” (New American Bible Revised Edition)

Matthew 9:11, The Pharisees saw this and said to his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners? (New American Bible Revised Edition)

Are you saying that the Church refused Salvation to you? We’re you Baptized? What is preventing you for receiving Communion?

 

[Sy_Noe]

Are you saying that the Church refused Salvation to you? We’re you Baptized? What is preventing you for receiving Communion?

Baptized and confirmed. But at 6 wks old and 10 yrs old respectively. I assume you mean in the CC. When I consider Jesus eating with sinners and how he died on the cross for our sins and said he would turn no one away in John 6 who are called to receive him, the CC prevents me.

 

[rcwitness]

Baptized and confirmed. But at 6 wks old and 10 yrs old respectively. I assume you mean in the CC. When I consider Jesus eating with sinners and how he died on the cross for our sins and said he would turn no one away in John 6 who are called to receive him, the CC prevents me.

All are called to repent of sin. Not to receive while remaining in sin. I am assuming you are living in a serious sin, according to the Church? Does Jesus accept your sins, or repenting of your sins?

Btw, I am a sinner too. But I am also a repentant sinner.

 

[Sy_Noe]

All are called to repent of sin. Not to receive while remaining in sin. I am assuming you are living in a serious sin, according to the Church? Does Jesus accept your sins, or repenting of your sins?

Btw, I am a sinner too. But I am also a repentant sinner.

Mk 2:15 While he was at table in his house, many tax collectors and sinners sat with Jesus and his disciples; for there were many who followed him. 16 Some scribes who were Pharisees saw that he was eating with sinners and tax collectors and said to his disciples, “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?” 17 Jesus heard this and said to them, “Those who are well do not need a physician, but the sick do. I did not come to call the righteous but sinners.” (NABRE)

Mk 2:15 And as he sat at dinner in Levi’s house, many tax collectors and sinners were also sitting with Jesus and his disciples—for there were many who followed him. 16 When the scribes of the Pharisees saw that he was eating with sinners and tax collectors, they said to his disciples, “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?” 17 When Jesus heard this, he said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick; I have come to call not the righteous but sinners. (New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition)

According to the CC, yes. I miss Mass for instance. And the CC considers it as not honoring God and in terms of HDofO, not obeying a bishop. I repent too as well in fact everytime I pray “forgive me my tresspasses”.

 

[rcwitness]

Mk 2:15 While he was at table in his house, many tax collectors and sinners sat with Jesus and his disciples; for there were many who followed him. 16 Some scribes who were Pharisees saw that he was eating with sinners and tax collectors and said to his disciples, “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?” 17 Jesus heard this and said to them, “Those who are well do not need a physician, but the sick do. I did not come to call the righteous but sinners.” (NABRE)

Mk 2:15 And as he sat at dinner in Levi’s house, many tax collectors and sinners were also sitting with Jesus and his disciples—for there were many who followed him. 16 When the scribes of the Pharisees saw that he was eating with sinners and tax collectors, they said to his disciples, “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?” 17 When Jesus heard this, he said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick; I have come to call not the righteous but sinners. (New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition)

Are you equating a common meal with the Lord’s Supper?

According to the CC, yes. I miss Mass for instance. And the CC considers it as not honoring God and in terms of HDofO, not obeying a bishop. I repent too as well in fact everytime I pray “forgive me my tresspasses”.

Hmmm… so you are complaining that the Church refuses you at the Lord’s table, but then you say you “miss the Lord’s table”? Imagine if Zacchaeus didn’t come home when Jesus asked to go their for supper!

I have missed Mass too! I confess and move on. In fact, I don’t doubt for a second that I am a greater sinner than yourself, though only God knows.

 

[Sy_Noe]

Are you equating a common meal with the Lord’s Supper?
Hmmm… so you are complaining that the Church refuses you at the Lord’s table, but then you say you “miss the Lord’s table”? Imagine if Zacchaeus didn’t come home when Jesus asked to go their for supper!

I have missed Mass too! I confess and move on. In fact, I don’t doubt for a second that I am a greater sinner than yourself, though only God knows.

When the Lord is at a supper table he is there. I’m actually not complaining. I’m sorry if I have come across as such. The CC can refuse me. If I miss the table too much I know there are other Christians who will welcome me to theirs. And if Christ is not there via the detailed attempt at an explanation of how he is (transubstantiation), he will be their either by the mystery of faith or in spirit. Where 2 are gathered in his name in a home, there he is, he said. Peace.

 

[Sy_Noe]

I wouldn’t go but it’s up to. Other posters have put up some interesting information for you to consider.

I have many protestant friends, we socialise etc but I have no interest in attending a worship service at a protestant church outside of weddings, baptisms and funerals.

The only church I will consider attending a worship Liturgy at is a Eastern Orthodox one.

I realize Anglicans are not Calvinistic but Pope Francis apparently has more of an interest than you and others do in attending non -Catholic services on Sunday. Many Romans I’ve run into see Anglicans as Protestant even though Anglicans themselves may look at themselves as a bridge between Catholicism and Protestantism.

During the first-ever visit by a pope to an Anglican church in Rome, Francis pointed to the spiritual attitude of humility necessary for Christian unity, and made clear that ecumenism “cannot be done in a laboratory – it has to be done on the road.”

And Francis on Sunday took another step to deepen Christian unity when he became the first pope to visit an Anglican church in Rome.

“As Catholics and Anglicans, we are humbly grateful that, after centuries of mutual mistrust, we are now able to recognize that the fruitful grace of Christ is at work also in others,” Francis said during his homily.

“Where we are united in the name of Jesus, he is there,” Francis said, closing his homily with a quote from the Gospel of St. Matthew.

cruxnow.com/global-church/2017/02/26/francis-urges-humble-path-unity-historic-visit-romes-anglicans/

 

[Vico]

I realize Anglicans are not Calvinistic but Pope Francis apparently has more of an interest than you and others do in attending non -Catholic services on Sunday. Many Romans I’ve run into see Anglicans as Protestant even though Anglicans themselves may look at themselves as a bridge between Catholicism and Protestantism.

During the first-ever visit by a pope to an Anglican church in Rome, Francis pointed to the spiritual attitude of humility necessary for Christian unity, and made clear that ecumenism “cannot be done in a laboratory – it has to be done on the road.”

And Francis on Sunday took another step to deepen Christian unity when he became the first pope to visit an Anglican church in Rome.

“As Catholics and Anglicans, we are humbly grateful that, after centuries of mutual mistrust, we are now able to recognize that the fruitful grace of Christ is at work also in others,” Francis said during his homily.

“Where we are united in the name of Jesus, he is there,” Francis said, closing his homily with a quote from the Gospel of St. Matthew.

cruxnow.com/global-church/2017/02/26/francis-urges-humble-path-unity-historic-visit-romes-anglicans/

Indifferentism is always to be avoided. Principle is given here:

Principles and norms on ecumenism:

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_25031993_principles-and-norms-on-ecumenism_en.html

g) insofar as religious conditions permit, ecumenical action should be encouraged, so that, “while avoiding every form of indifferentism, or confusion and also senseless rivalry, Catholics might collaborate with their separated brethren, insofar as it is possible, by a common profession before the nations of faith in God and in Jesus Christ, and by a common, fraternal effort in social, cultural, technical and religious matters, in accordance with the Decree on Ecumenism. Let them cooperate, especially, because of Christ their common Lord. May his Name unite them!”.56

In carrying out these activities, they will observe the norms for ecumenical work which have been established by the diocesan Bishop, the Synods of Eastern Catholic Churches or Episcopal Conferences as an element of their cooperation in the total apostolate of a given territory. They will maintain close contacts with the various dioceses or national ecumenical commissions and, where indicated, with the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity.

Dominus Iesus:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html

1. With the coming of the Saviour Jesus Christ, God has willed that the Church founded by him be the instrument for the salvation of all humanity (cf. Acts 17:30-31).90 This truth of faith does not lessen the sincere respect which the Church has for the religions of the world, but at the same time, it rules out, in a radical way, that mentality of indifferentism “characterized by a religious relativism which leads to the belief that ‘one religion is as good as another’”.91 If it is true that the followers of other religions can receive divine grace, it is also certain that objectively speaking they are in a gravely deficient situation in comparison with those who, in the Church, have the fullness of the means of salvation.92 However, “all the children of the Church should nevertheless remember that their exalted condition results, not from their own merits, but from the grace of Christ. If they fail to respond in thought, word, and deed to that grace, not only shall they not be saved, but they shall be more severely judged”.93 One understands then that, following the Lord’s command (cf. Mt 28:19-20) and as a requirement of her love for all people, the Church “proclaims and is in duty bound to proclaim without fail, Christ who is the way, the truth, and the life (Jn 14:6). In him, in whom God reconciled all things to himself (cf. 2 Cor 5:18-19), men find the fullness of their religious life”.94

 

[FabiusMaximus]

I realize Anglicans are not Calvinistic but Pope Francis apparently has more of an interest than you and others do in attending non -Catholic services on Sunday. Many Romans I’ve run into see Anglicans as Protestant even though Anglicans themselves may look at themselves as a bridge between Catholicism and Protestantism.

During the first-ever visit by a pope to an Anglican church in Rome, Francis pointed to the spiritual attitude of humility necessary for Christian unity, and made clear that ecumenism “cannot be done in a laboratory – it has to be done on the road.”

And Francis on Sunday took another step to deepen Christian unity when he became the first pope to visit an Anglican church in Rome.

“As Catholics and Anglicans, we are humbly grateful that, after centuries of mutual mistrust, we are now able to recognize that the fruitful grace of Christ is at work also in others,” Francis said during his homily.

“Where we are united in the name of Jesus, he is there,” Francis said, closing his homily with a quote from the Gospel of St. Matthew.

cruxnow.com/global-church/2017/02/26/francis-urges-humble-path-unity-historic-visit-romes-anglicans/

But a couple things should be remembered:

1. Pope Francis would still refuse Holy Communion to an Anglican parishioner, because they are not in full communion with the Catholic Church.
2. There serious theological and practical obstacles to unity with the Anglicans - the fact that the Queen of England is the supreme governor, ordination of female priests and in some cases (the Episcopal Church in the US for example), bishops. It’s the Anglicans that are making it more difficult to find common ground because many of them continue to depart from the Apostolic Faith. This is despite the fact that there are many pious and very orthodox Anglicans (like GKC on these forums) that are extremely close theologically to Catholicism.

 

[Picky_Picky]

But a couple things should be remembered:

1. Pope Francis would still refuse Holy Communion to an Anglican parishioner, because they are not in full communion with the Catholic Church.
2. There serious theological and practical obstacles to unity with the Anglicans - the fact that the Queen of England is the supreme governor, ordination of female priests and in some cases (the Episcopal Church in the US for example), bishops. It’s the Anglicans that are making it more difficult to find common ground because many of them continue to depart from the Apostolic Faith. This is despite the fact that there are many pious and very orthodox Anglicans (like GKC on these forums) that are extremely close theologically to Catholicism.

A small picky point: the Queen is supreme governor of the Church of England only, not of the Anglican Communion.

 

[Picky_Picky]

(…) But I do realize that Church Teaching is sometimes represented in documents that have many levels of Truth, and that some of its applications are subject to change. And that’s why a balanced approach is better than a one sided criticism. (…)

Indeed, although statements like those quoted above from Pope Pius XI (post 36) and the Council of Florence (post 58) seem to me not to submit very readily to a search for different levels of truth: they are somewhat on one level, wouldn’t you say?.

 

[GKC]

But a couple things should be remembered:

1. Pope Francis would still refuse Holy Communion to an Anglican parishioner, because they are not in full communion with the Catholic Church.
2. There serious theological and practical obstacles to unity with the Anglicans - the fact that the Queen of England is the supreme governor, ordination of female priests and in some cases (the Episcopal Church in the US for example), bishops. It’s the Anglicans that are making it more difficult to find common ground because many of them continue to depart from the Apostolic Faith. This is despite the fact that there are many pious and very orthodox Anglicans (like GKC on these forums) that are extremely close theologically to Catholicism.

Your last par’s comment on me and similar Anglicans is kind, perhaps overly so in my case. The remainder of that para is sad and pretty much my position on the matter, too.

 

[rcwitness]

When the Lord is at a supper table he is there. I’m actually not complaining. I’m sorry if I have come across as such. The CC can refuse me. If I miss the table too much I know there are other Christians who will welcome me to theirs.

Which brings me back to my first question to you: Where
Do you now receive the Lord’s Supper?

And if Christ is not there via the detailed attempt at an explanation of how he is (transubstantiation), he will be their either by the mystery of faith or in spirit. Where 2 are gathered in his name in a home, there he is, he said. Peace.

He also said:
" … and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector."

You are simply determining that another church (which you don’t care to name) brings to you Jesus, while the Catholic Church withholds Him from you. Zacchaeus humbled himself and was seeking who Jesus was. Jesus was still bringing the good news of the Kingdom to men. His shared meals, and entering the house of a sinner is very different than His Last Supper (though not in an opposed sense).

Why don’t you ask your parish priest if He will come to your house for a meal, and for the Sacrament of Reconciliation? I’m confident he will do that. Are you willing to repent like Zacchaeus?

 

[GKC]

A small picky point: the Queen is supreme governor of the Church of England only, not of the Anglican Communion.

So very similar to the first post I ever made, anywhere, around 12+ years ago.

 

[Picky_Picky]

So very similar to the first post I ever made, anywhere, around 12+ years ago.

And she’d only been doing the job for 50-odd years then. Now she’s started to settle in, the word might get round.

 

[GKC]

And she’d only been doing the job for 50-odd years then. Now she’s started to settle in, the word might get round.

Sometimes the role(s) of Cantuar had to be delimited, too.

 

[rcwitness]

Sometimes the role(s) of Cantuar had to be delimited, too.

GKC, if you don’t mind me asking: What is your personal involvement in Ecumenism? What does it mean to you, and are there boundaries?