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Lenten_ashes
Guest
Right, but according to them(the individual) they are former Catholics.
Attending Mass at a Calvinistic Church
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Don_Ruggero
Guest
What do you mean “don’t participate, you are just an observer”?
As a priest, I have been invited – or sent – to many ecumenical events over the years…either myself personally or accompanied by a delegation of other Catholics. I am quite actively a part of it, whether preaching at an Evensong or reading a sacred text. Seminarians or laity with me were participants as part of choir or fulfilling some ministerial role.
I read posts on here and it like encountering people who have not caught up with the reality of the ecumenical movement and where the Holy See and the Roman Church is today.
We are, thanks be to God!, far removed from the attitudes of 70+ years ago because we have fully embraced the ecumenical movement.
If it is announced in the bulletin of the Catholic parish, I would presume it is an event that is bringing together an ecumenical gathering of clergy and laity.
Personally, I am looking forward, later this year, in co-presiding with a Lutheran cleric in a Service of Common Prayer for the joint Catholic Lutheran commemoration of the Reformation. The congregation will be formed equally by Catholics and Lutherans and my Lutheran co-presider and I will be standing as equals.
As Pope Benedict said in Erfurt in 2011:
*I would respond by saying that the first and most important thing for ecumenism is that we keep in view just how much we have in common, not losing sight of it amid the pressure towards secularization – everything that makes us Christian in the first place and continues to be our gift and our task. It was the error of the Reformation period that for the most part we could only see what divided us and we failed to grasp existentially what we have in common in terms of the great deposit of sacred Scripture and the early Christian creeds. For me, the great ecumenical step forward of recent decades is that we have become aware of all this common ground, that we acknowledge it as we pray and sing together, as we make our joint commitment to the Christian ethos in our dealings with the world, as we bear common witness to the God of Jesus Christ in this world as our inalienable, shared foundation.
/…/
This is a key ecumenical task in which we have to help one another: developing a deeper and livelier faith. It is not strategy that saves us and saves Christianity, but faith – thought out and lived afresh; through such faith, Christ enters this world of ours, and with him, the living God. As the martyrs of the Nazi era brought us together and prompted that great initial ecumenical opening, so today, faith that is lived from deep within amid a secularized world is the most powerful ecumenical force that brings us together, guiding us towards unity in the one Lord. And we pray to him, asking that we may learn to live the faith anew, and that in this way we may then become one.*
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Don_Ruggero
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This is the opposite of the explicit teaching of Rome.
The Eucharist is validly confected beyond the Catholic Church…in the Eastern Orthodox, the Oriental Orthodox and those other Churches that Rome has determined are have the same situation as the Churches of the East.
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Seamus_L
Guest
You don’t have to attend !
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twf
Guest
Father,
I think a big part of it is that you, and probably Europeans in general, are accustomed to dialoguing and sharing with Lutherans and Anglicans, with whom significant theological and liturgical common ground can be found. Many of the Americans (and probably Canadians) on this forum are either converts from Evangelicalism (by which I mean the term as it is commonly used in North America, which has nothing to do with Lutheranism) or have a long history of encounters with Evangelicalism. These are non-liturgical communities that in many cases would respond “what’s that?” when asked about the Nicene Creed. There is also still a very strong strand of blatant anti-Catholicism in many of these communities. Of course dialogue is possible and does happen…but I think there’s still a lot of progress to be made before the sort of joint services that are happening between Catholics and Lutherans is possible. This doesn’t excuse the attitude expressed by some people on this forum, but I think it partly explains where they are coming from.
When I converted to Catholicism over a decade ago, all 3 of my living grandparents independently sent me big thick tomes with titles such as “The Whore of Babylon” or “The Woman who Rides the Beast” to explain to me that I was entering into Satan’s open jaws…
Interestingly, my parents have, in recent years, transitioned to Lutheranism, my sister to Anglicanism, and several of my cousins to Eastern Orthodoxy… and I rejoice with all of them and find much common ground that wasn’t there previously. As kids we were taught that Lutherans, Anglicans, and Orthodox were nearly as bad as Catholics…
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Tim_D
Guest
Then they are in the true sense “Catholic,” are they not? That is a far cry from extending legitimacy to a Calvinist liturgies.
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oldgraymare2
Guest
I’m very sorry that this happened in your family, and that you had the experience that you had, too.Father,
I think a big part of it is that you, and probably Europeans in general, are accustomed to dialoguing and sharing with Lutherans and Anglicans, with whom significant theological and liturgical common ground can be found. Many of the Americans (and probably Canadians) on this forum are either converts from Evangelicalism (by which I mean the term as it is commonly used in North America, which has nothing to do with Lutheranism) or have a long history of encounters with Evangelicalism. These are non-liturgical communities that in many cases would respond “what’s that?” when asked about the Nicene Creed. There is also still a very strong strand of blatant anti-Catholicism in many of these communities. Of course dialogue is possible and does happen…but I think there’s still a lot of progress to be made before the sort of joint services that are happening between Catholics and Lutherans is possible. This doesn’t excuse the attitude expressed by some people on this forum, but I think it partly explains where they are coming from.
When I converted to Catholicism over a decade ago, all 3 of my living grandparents independently sent me big thick tomes with titles such as “The Whore of Babylon” or “The Woman who Rides the Beast” to explain to me that I was entering into Satan’s open jaws…
Interestingly, my parents have, in recent years, transitioned to Lutheranism, my sister to Anglicanism, and several of my cousins to Eastern Orthodoxy… and I rejoice with all of them and find much common ground that wasn’t there previously. As kids we were taught that Lutherans, Anglicans, and Orthodox were nearly as bad as Catholics…
I was very close to my Lutheran family members, and nothing like that ever happened in my family. As far as religion was concerned regarding my closest family members, the commonalities between our faiths were stressed, and not the differences.
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exnihilo
Guest
I don’t know about that. The sermon might be much longer then a typical homily. There will be no sign of the cross made. There will be no offer of sacrifice. But a more high church Reformed church may seem very similar to a more modern experience of liturgy in the Catholic Church.
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tseleehw
Guest
I would totally agree with this based on my experience. As for the church the OP is referring to, it could be dangerous to attend, and possibly very anti-Catholic, but if there truly was a notice in the (Catholic) bulletin about it, then it may be OK. If attending, I would attend with a sense of caution, but be open to participation and friendly to others in attendance. Obviously participation in the sense of any kind of communion service (if any, there very possibly would be no kind of “communion” in such a church) would be out of the question, but depending on what the event is, it may be worth attending to foster a sense of ecumenism with their community.Father,
I think a big part of it is that you, and probably Europeans in general, are accustomed to dialoguing and sharing with Lutherans and Anglicans, with whom significant theological and liturgical common ground can be found. Many of the Americans (and probably Canadians) on this forum are either converts from Evangelicalism (by which I mean the term as it is commonly used in North America, which has nothing to do with Lutheranism) or have a long history of encounters with Evangelicalism. These are non-liturgical communities that in many cases would respond “what’s that?” when asked about the Nicene Creed. There is also still a very strong strand of blatant anti-Catholicism in many of these communities. Of course dialogue is possible and does happen…but I think there’s still a lot of progress to be made before the sort of joint services that are happening between Catholics and Lutherans is possible. This doesn’t excuse the attitude expressed by some people on this forum, but I think it partly explains where they are coming from.
When I converted to Catholicism over a decade ago, all 3 of my living grandparents independently sent me big thick tomes with titles such as “The Whore of Babylon” or “The Woman who Rides the Beast” to explain to me that I was entering into Satan’s open jaws…
Interestingly, my parents have, in recent years, transitioned to Lutheranism, my sister to Anglicanism, and several of my cousins to Eastern Orthodoxy… and I rejoice with all of them and find much common ground that wasn’t there previously. As kids we were taught that Lutherans, Anglicans, and Orthodox were nearly as bad as Catholics…
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Sy_Noe
Guest
True. I just didn’t want someone like yourself who appears to be a faithful Catholic by your posts to confuse anyone.
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MichaelP3
Guest
Good day
I just want to say thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I have followed your responses for quite some time and I have to say I and I am sure others “from my side” value your informed (name removed by moderator)ut.
I do not get to do with many Catholics in real life and sadly this forum would have given me a wrong impression of Catholicism if it wasn’t for a Priest like yourself and some other posters I have encountered.
Regards
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rcwitness
Guest
Hmmm… the OP is MIA???
Attending a Non-Catholic, Christian service is permissable, so long as it is not “replacing” Catholic Mass obligation.
Attending a Non-Catholic, Christian service is permissable, so long as it is not “replacing” Catholic Mass obligation.
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rcwitness
Guest
A common fellowship and shared worship/belief should not be misunderstood as Non-Catholic services being a substitute for a Catholic’s obligation to participate in Mass. Not that you suggested it does, but it should be noted, right?
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twf
Guest
Thank you. Everyone softened over the years thankfully.I’m very sorry that this happened in your family, and that you had the experience that you had, too.
I was very close to my Lutheran family members, and nothing like that ever happened in my family. As far as religion was concerned regarding my closest family members, the commonalities between our faiths were stressed, and not the differences.
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Magdalena59
Guest
This response makes me ever so sad. About 20 years ago I was attending a Catholic parish and the priest encouraged much the same as what you are saying. There were many interfaith events. I attended many. After attending these events, I and many others left the Catholic church. It was 12 years without the Eucharist. That was 12 long tearful years because after leaving the Catholic church it was very difficult for me to find my way home. I wandered from denomination to denomination, (every wind of doctrine). The confusion left me crying many a Sundays, crying out to God over the confusion I found in the multitude of denominations. Thank God He led me back home to the Catholic church. It was been the absolute best thing.
I understand encouraging dialogue and evangelizing and loving non-Catholics but to encourage Catholics to attend protestant churches will lead and has led many souls to a place without the Eucharist, the source and summit of our faith. That leaves them empty.
Many of my friends are still gone, some have become atheists and are still confused. I pray for them. How many souls have been lost over false ecumenism.
True ecumenism leads people to the Catholic church where they encounter Christ in the Eucharist. Why would we not want that for non-Catholics?
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rcwitness
Guest
So, Venerable Brethren, it is clear why this Apostolic See has never allowed its subjects to take part in the assemblies of non-Catholics: for the union of Christians can only be promoted by promoting the return to the one true Church of Christ of those who are separated from it, for in the past they have unhappily left it. To the one true Church of Christ, we say, which is visible to all, and which is to remain, according to the will of its Author, exactly the same as He instituted it.*Mortalium Animos No. 10, Pope Pius XI
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Magdalena59
Guest
I have.
My best advice is not to go. You are not obligated, as someone else said, to attend a protestant service. There are many ways to fellowship with protestants than attending their services. I have been there and have come to realize that Catholic parishes should not encourage their parishioners to attend protestant churches. It can lead to great confusion.
Also, as someone said Calvinists are pretty anti-Catholic. A couple steps in the wrong direction can lead you astray for quite a long time. Note my post above.
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Kielbasi
Guest
Our Calvinist friends don’t celebrate masses, just not what they do.
Around these parts most of your “calvinists” are presbyterians or baptists, and they usually only have communion quarterly, so their service will be most music and a long sermon.
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Tomyris
Guest
1928
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Tomyris
Guest
Nothing I said indicated how well he understood his Catholicism. Perhaps he understood it far better than you understand yours. It is easy to say “ignorant Catholics become Protestant, educated Protestants become Catholic” because it makes you feel good and educated and spiritually superior, and it is a comfort, and is a safeguard, I suppose, that you are not ignorant, therefore you will not slip from the fold. But what you and I are both ignorant of was how well that individual knew his Catholicism. Perhaps he really understood it, and the agony of understanding what it should be and what he actually saw in practice was too much to bear, an agony perhaps you can soothe over because you have not experienced or known what he has. I never found out what his beef was and I never wanted to ask because I sensed there was a volcano and I was not the right one to poke the magma.
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