Attending Mass Heretical Priest

[Semper_Zelare]

He has told me that he disagrees with some of the Church’s teachings, though he did not go into detail about which ones specifically.

In the course of this conversation, however, he told me he thought we would soon see the Church being open to or allowing woman priests. That is the closest I have to an explicit denial of a specific infallible teaching.

I would write a letter to your Bishop about how he has told you that he disagrees with various teachings of the Church, and that he specifically told you he wanted the Church to change and accept women’s ordination.

It is our duty as Catholics to report abuses when we see them. The Bishop probably doesn’t know, and he never will unless someone tells him about it. It is the duty of your priest to faithfully uphold the teachings of the Church… and it looks like he has failings in meeting that duty.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

If the priest knows Church teaching, and dissents from it, how can he be said to be doing what the Church does? Or even what he considers what the Church does when he knows his belief is different from what the Church teaches?

A child is Born and is about to die. the only person there is the mother and a nurse that is an athiest. the mother ask the nurse to baptize the baby before it dies. the nurse being a kind person so. She says the words and i her mind all she believes she is doing is getting the baby wet and that is all she believe the chruch does, but her intent is to do what the church does. That Baby has been validly baptized. the belief of the person doing so does not matter. So even if the priest thinks that before the consecration and after the consecration it is just bread and wine it would not matter. the consecration still happens and it is then the Body and blood of the Lord.

 

[promethius]

I’ve been told this before - maybe by you in another thread, actually. But I still do not understand it. What if he tells me that he disagrees with Church teaching?

Did he state that he obstinately refuses to accept the church’s teachings and that nothing the Vatican says can convince him otherwise? One can be in need of formation of conscience without specifically being a heretic.

However, the fact that he is voicing these doubts publicly is troubling. I would make an appointment with him and discuss the matter, informing him that your understanding is that those who personally have not conformed to church teaching in certain matters are not to make public teachings in that regard (assuming he taught this during the mass), and that if he feels that he has a right to continue to voice dissent then you will feel compelled to write to the bishop for arbitration in the matter.

 

[MilesVitae]

However, the fact that he is voicing these doubts publicly is troubling.

Actually, he hasn’t (as far as I am aware) - it was in the course of a private conversation that he told me this.

 

[promethius]

Actually, he hasn’t (as far as I am aware) - it was in the course of a private conversation that he told me this.

Meh, then he’s technically not violating any church teachings at this point. We’re allowed to have personal doubts about articles of faith, we’re just NOT allowed to obstinately refuse to be catechised from our erroneous positions.

 

[Barbkw]

He has told me that he disagrees with some of the Church’s teachings, though he did not go into detail about which ones specifically.

In the course of this conversation, however, he told me he thought we would soon see the Church being open to or allowing woman priests. That is the closest I have to an explicit denial of a specific infallible teaching.

Print out Pope Benedict’s decision on that topic and hand it to him.

P.S. I overheard one of our 80-year-old nuns say the same thing at an RCIA class.

“Uhhh sister…I’m just a 30 year prodigal daughter of the Church but…didn’t Pope Benedict say “No” to that?”

 

[ANNE_2]

A priest is only a heretic if excommunicated or otherwise removed for heresy. This is solely the bishop’s prerogative.
If the bishop allows the priest to celebrate mass, then we Catholics are free to attend the mass. Prudence may dictate not attending this priest’s masses, and improper teachings ought to be brought to the bishop’s attention. However, we lay faithful do not have the right to declare it sinful to attend a lawfully installed priest’s masses.

Anyone (including a Priest) can be a heretic or schismatic without being formally excommunicated by a Bishop.

CCC - " 2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it.
**Heresy **is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same;
apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith;
schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him. "

If the Priest is admitting to you that he is one of the above by statements of his belief, contact your Diocese Bishop for his correction or removal of the a Priest from your Parish.

Personally I would not go to Confession or Mass by this Priest, if I had another choice.

 

[promethius]

Anyone (including a Priest) can be a heretic or schismatic without being formally excommunicated by a Bishop.

This is true, however, the determination that a person is a heretic is NOT one that laypersons are able to make on their own. A person may declare THEMSELVES a heretic (in accord with their own examination of conscience) or they may be declared guilty by a competant authority.

The age when laypersons could rampantly accuse people of heresy ended with the start of the inquisition.

**Heresy **is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same;
apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith;
schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him. "

If the Priest is admitting to you that he is one of the above by statements of his belief, contact your Diocese Bishop for his correction or removal of the a Priest from your Parish.

A mere statement of belief does not constitute heresy. An obstinate denial of truth includes both a statement of belief and a statement of intent (namely, that he does not believe and will not ever allow himself to be convinced otherwise no matter what). Someone who is in doubt about a teaching but is attempting to conform to church teaching is not a heretic at all.

Personally I would not go to Confession or Mass by this Priest, if I had another choice.

As a matter of personal choice, this is fine. As a statement on the validity of his sacraments (I realize that’s not what you’re saying here, but I’m covering the bases for all motives) I would say this is not acceptable.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

If it bothers you then find another parish. This has nothing to do with the validity of the mass, as already discussed, but about orthodoxy. If questionable ideas are floating in that parish and you believe they will damage your faith you should leave. But I also agree with those who have suggested you write to the bishop and explain what is going on there. In this way you would be helping other parishoners as well, rather than leaving them exposed to questionable things.

 

[MilesVitae]

“A mere statement of belief does not constitute heresy. An obstinate denial of truth includes both a statement of belief and a statement of intent (namely, that he does not believe and will not ever allow himself to be convinced otherwise no matter what). Someone who is in doubt about a teaching but is attempting to conform to church teaching is not a heretic at all.”

Your explanation of heresy is not how I have come to understand it…

You say obstinate denial includes statements of belief and of intent. Do you mean quite literally an outwardly expressed and explicit sign that one does not believe the Church’s teaching and will never accept it? Or by “statement” do you also include internal “statement” to oneself?

Also, how does this apply to heresy as, not denial, but obstinate doubt?

And what is the source of your understanding of this matter?

 

[agnes_therese]

I’ve been told this before - maybe by you in another thread, actually. But I still do not understand it. What if he tells me that he disagrees with Church teaching?

That still doesn’t necessarily make him a heretic. But since it bothers you enough to call him one, you really should look for another parish.

 

[FrDavid96]

Of course, transubstantiation isn’t Church dogma. Only the Real Presence is. I believe Eastern Catholics don’t hold with transubstantiation for example.

If the priest knows Church teaching, and dissents from it, how can he be said to be doing what the Church does? Or even what he considers what the Church does when he knows his belief is different from what the Church teaches?

I don’t want to distract from this topic, but try this explanation
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8482239&postcount=22

 

[SecretGarden]

If this guy is teaching heresy, I recommend a few things. Contact your local diocese and ask how they suggest you handle it. Generally some sort of procedures exist to handle something like this. I recommend that whenever you attend mass, take notes on his homily, if you can tape it (which is illegal btw but you can always ask permission) and then write a letter of complaint and send it to your local diocese. I would also ask around to see if others feel the same way. If they do, follow the procedures your local diocese recommends. This guy needs to be watched and the diocese notified because he is at risk of leading people astray. In the long run he can do more harm than good. A priest’s job is to help bring people to Christ and not lead them away.

Just because a mass is valid, doesn’t mean you have to put up with bad teaching. It’s up to you to decide what to do next. If the congregation also believes the same thing as you, it might be a good idea to stand by your parish as they begin this fight. If not, you have decisions to make. Just remember, it’s important to be careful of your own soul and you might want to find a place which teaches the truth. Attending such a place is important because you need to fill your own soul as well. Only you knows your schedule and what is available in your area. Unfortunately, there is a priest shortage so it might take a long while before this is resolved. Whenever you do attend this parish, ask god to protect your soul from whatever bad teaching which might arise.

Good luck