Attending Other Churches

[markomalley]

I’ve come a long way in a little over a month. Who would have thought I would be quoting the CCC. So here I go:

CCC 819

819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.” Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."

Yes, Protestant churches don’t have fullness of the truth, but can we stop acting like they are not “separated brethren”? Can we stop acting like they are anathema?

Congrats.

Suggest you read this from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (Responses to Some Questions Regarding Certain Aspects of the Doctrine on the Church) and its associated commentary.

Also the term “separated brethren” has its origins from Pope Pius XII. Used in his encyclical, Mystici Corporis Christi (the Mystical Body of Christ), paragraph 102, which states:

1. Likewise, We must earnestly desire that this united prayer may embrace in the same ardent charity both those who, not yet enlightened by the truth of the Gospel, are still outside the fold of the Church, and those who, on account of regrettable schism, are separated from Us, who though unworthy, represent the person of Jesus Christ on earth. Let us then re-echo that divine prayer of our Savior to the heavenly Father: “That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.”
2. As you know, Venerable Brethren, from the very beginning of Our Pontificate, We have committed to the protection and guidance of heaven those who do not belong to the visible Body of the Catholic Church, solemnly declaring that after the example of the Good Shepherd We desire nothing more ardently than that they may have life and have it more abundantly. Imploring the prayers of the whole Church We wish to repeat this solemn declaration in this Encyclical Letter in which We have proclaimed the praises of the “great and glorious Body of Christ” and from a heart overflowing with love We ask each and every one of them to correspond to the interior movements of grace, and to seek to withdraw from that state in which they cannot be sure of their salvation. For even though by an unconscious desire and longing they have a certain relationship with the Mystical Body of the Redeemer, they still remain deprived of those many heavenly gifts and helps which can only be enjoyed in the Catholic Church. Therefore may they enter into Catholic unity and, joined with Us in the one, organic Body of Jesus Christ, may they together with us run on to the one Head in the Society of glorious love. Persevering in prayer to the Spirit of love and truth, We wait for them with open and outstretched arms to come not to a stranger’s house, but to their own, their father’s home.

Seriously, though, great job on identifying that in the CCC. If I can give you a suggestion, look up what’s in the footnotes. That will really help you a lot in getting well versed in the whole Magesterium.

 

[ConstantineTG]

No, that’s not at it all…if I had known the reactions I’d be getting from that comment, I’d have never said it. Mea culpa…

It was said merely to give full context of where I was at mentally.

Sorry if I seem to be prying into your private life. I just want to correct, if there is something that needs correcting, the perception of a Catholic attending a non-Catholic wedding. Simply that if those getting married are not Catholics, then we shouldn’t expect them to follow Canon Law, and therefore nothing wrong or sinful for a Catholic to attend that wedding. That was all I was going to say.

 

[TrueLight]

Seriously, though, great job on identifying that in the CCC. If I can give you a suggestion, look up what’s in the footnotes. That will really help you a lot in getting well versed in the whole Magesterium.

Thank you Mark. I’m learning!

Although, I must admit that the reason I knew of that paragraph is because I’m currently reading Catholic Christianity by Kreeft and stumbled upon that paragraph this morning.

Thanks for the tip on the footnotes!

 

[Ruth_Catherine]

I agree we need to encourage our people to stay but we also need to give them a reason to stay. Up here in Quebec, there is a long list of political reasons why people left the Catholic church. I hate to say it but in those days the reasons were valid. Now we need to find ways to bring them back. It’s coming slowly but there is alot that needs to be done. I believe it’s necessary to look towards the Evangelical Protestant side for ways to do it. They are very good at maintaining their people of all ages. Look at the young adult populations of some of these churches. They are huge in some cases they take up about half of the congregation. Most Catholic churches would love to have half of their young adult population. They must be doing something right because they have all of the people of all the generations while right now Catholic parishes are struggling to maintain and keep their existing young people. Young people inside the Catholic church are a minority.

My other point is that most Protestant Churches know their material verses the Catholic side or about 80%of main Catholics that do know their material are mostly those who converted from another denomination or religion. The fact that they know their material so well should be inspire Catholics to do the same. Unfortunately for so many Catholics, Catholicism is treated like a religion. You follow certain rules, do certain things and violà you are Catholic. It doesn’t work that way. Following the rules doesn’t make you any better of a Christian than following the instructions to put together a tv stand from Sears makes you a carpenter. Part of the Christian journey is about having faith, having a relationship with our Lord and constantly seek ways to be more like him. This is the Christian faith that bypasses Catholicism and Protestantism. It’s what brings us together as a body of Christ.

In addition, when it comes to attending a Protestant Bible study, we have the Niceen Creed and the New Testament that are exactly the same. We both believe that Christ died on a cross to save us from our sins. He did not die because someone thought it would make an interesting story. There are aspects where the beliefs are the same and why can’t we join together and celebrate it?

What you said regarding finding a Catholic bible study is valid but unfortunately depending on where people live and their availabilities it’s not always possible to find one. Not all Protestant Churches are protesting against Catholicism. There is alot of misconceptions about our denomination that we need to correct and that itself can only happen when some of us are willing to step out of our Catholic box and speak up and correct as necessary. Trust me it’s not easy to be the only Catholic inside the Protestant circle and yet it’s a necessary one.

You mentioned your concern about not learning the “whole truth.” I would be interested to hear what you mean by it. Not that I don’t understand it myself but forums like this are great because stranger from across the world can dialogue with each other.

Peace,
SG

The whole truth is fullness of truth. I had been in Evangelical protestant churches and mainline protestant churches for a long time. I believe totally that protestants are Christians and our brothers and sisters in Christ but I don’t believe you will draw closer to the Catholic church going somewhere that teaches against Catholic doctrine.
There are many issues that they disagree with the Catholic church and each other. These are some of the issues they can’t agree on with each other: baptism, Communion, speaking in tongues, abortion, preaching, singing, music, dress, homosexuality, women’s roles, confession, prosperity, suffering, many more. My point is someone has to know the truth, the final answer. That is where scripture, magisterium and tradition come in, only found in the Catholic church. That is where we find what a bible verse means.

While a protestant I homeschooled my family and was part of large co-op and met so, so many different people from different denominations my head would spin listening to them talk about their different beliefs. “This is what our church believes. Oh, we don’t believe that, this is what our church believes.” Our brothers and sisters in Christ, yes, but on and on it would go every week, comparing their beliefs. I had friend after friend invite me to their church because as they would say they are the ones who know what the bible means. Sometimes we would go and sometimes we wouldn’t. I finally cried out to God and told him I was so confused who could possibly be right. Where should we go. Who should we believe. Within the next couple months he led me back to the Catholic church after 14 years. All because of authority. I would never have believed at that time I would be here defending the Catholic church because I had only heard all those years things that didn’t agree with the Catholic church and I fell for them as many do.

Protestants are Christians but for their salvation they too should be welcomed home to know the whole truth. That is why I wouldn’t go to a protestant Bible study or church service. I have and was pulled away because of the untruths I was told about Catholic beliefs. I have now learned, as one evangelical preacher said, “don’t call the cat if you want the dog.” (sorry, I like little sayings) There are many good Catholic bible studies and catechisms out there. I heard a priest say today. “We will draw young people in by our holiness.”

A show that really helped me was Journey Home by Marcus Grodi. I heard people just like me, in situations just like me. Lost and confused.

It all comes down to authority. Somebody has to be in charge and know the answers. When no one is in charge it is all left up to opinion.

 

[thequeen]

I’m very curious also, and I will go with a protestant friend of mine to their church on Easter Monday to see how they celebrate mass and the Eucharist
Won’t participate in the Eucharist tho just watching of course

There is no such thing as a mass and eucharist in protestant church because they do not have the real presence.only the Catholic Church has that.In the catholic mass the focus is on Jesus in the Eucharist .In protestant church the focus is usually on the minister and his sermon

 

[SecretGarden]

I won’t deny that the presence lives inside the Eucharist but be careful by saying it lives only inside the Catholic church, I think the Orthodox and Copic also believe in it as well.

I don’t understand why people are making a big deal about attending a Protestant Church. Christ doesn’t only live inside the Catholic church. For over 500 years, Christians have been meeting Christ inside the Protestant church regardless of how the separation came to be. Granted they believe that Christ doesn’t live inside the actual Eucharist (with the exception of maybe the the Lutheran and the Anglican church which do believe in something very similar to the actual presence). Regardless of that, but it lives in everything else.

I have a question for many of our readers. How many of you ever attended a Protestant church on a somewhat consecutive/ regular basis for a month or more? I’m asking because it seems like the ones who have the right to comment are those who were originally Protestant or spent a long period of time inside one for whatever reason. I’m talking about a good month or longer.

We talk about how the Protestants hate the Catholics but I have also been noticing that there is also alot of animosity towards the Protestants as well. How do you expect to them to like us if we aren’t willing to put out our hand and say hello.

 

[thequeen]

I won’t deny that the presence lives inside the Eucharist but be careful by saying it lives only inside the Catholic church, I think the Orthodox and Copic also believe in it as well.

I don’t understand why people are making a big deal about attending a Protestant Church. Christ doesn’t only live inside the Catholic church. For over 500 years, Christians have been meeting Christ inside the Protestant church regardless of how the separation came to be. Granted they believe that Christ doesn’t live inside the actual Eucharist (with the exception of maybe the the Lutheran and the Anglican church which do believe in something very similar to the actual presence). Regardless of that, but it lives in everything else.

I have a question for many of our readers. How many of you ever attended a Protestant church on a somewhat consecutive/ regular basis for a month or more? I’m asking because it seems like the ones who have the right to comment are those who were originally Protestant or spent a long period of time inside one for whatever reason. I’m talking about a good month or longer.

We talk about how the Protestants hate the Catholics but I have also been noticing that there is also alot of animosity towards the Protestants as well. How do you expect to them to like us if we aren’t willing to put out our hand and say hello.

You are right the Orthodox Churches do believe in the real presence as do the Eastern Rite churches in commununion with Rome

 

[thequeen]

I won’t deny that the presence lives inside the Eucharist but be careful by saying it lives only inside the Catholic church, I think the Orthodox and Copic also believe in it as well.

I don’t understand why people are making a big deal about attending a Protestant Church. Christ doesn’t only live inside the Catholic church. For over 500 years, Christians have been meeting Christ inside the Protestant church regardless of how the separation came to be. Granted they believe that Christ doesn’t live inside the actual Eucharist (with the exception of maybe the the Lutheran and the Anglican church which do believe in something very similar to the actual presence). Regardless of that, but it lives in everything else.

I have a question for many of our readers. How many of you ever attended a Protestant church on a somewhat consecutive/ regular basis for a month or more? I’m asking because it seems like the ones who have the right to comment are those who were originally Protestant or spent a long period of time inside one for whatever reason. I’m talking about a good month or longer.

We talk about how the Protestants hate the Catholics but I have also been noticing that there is also alot of animosity towards the Protestants as well. How do you expect to them to like us if we aren’t willing to put out our hand and say hello.

I was Protestant for 28 years of my life have been Catholic for about 18 now.

 

[convert999]

I was raised Presbyterian, became an Evangelical, and stayed one for 28 years before I found the fullness of truth in the Catholic Church. I was very active as an Evangelical, playing in their worship band, serving as Sunday School superintendent, etc. I attended a very large church with a great music program. I can’t tell you how many people, especially young adults, told me they came to our church specifically to hear the band. Even before I was remotely considering Catholicism, this really bothered me since these folks were obviously in church for the entertainment value. Many of them had left their own Protestant church to come to ours because the services were more “uplifting.” But pride of place was reserved for former Catholics. These people were held up as being examples of the power of God, since they had renounced their “works-based” religion and embraced Evangelicalism. The worship director was a former Catholic, as were 2 of their pastors.

It is naive to assume that Evangelicals respect Catholic beliefs, and equally naive to attend their services without realizing that they are there to convert you. They will believe that God led you to come to them, and they will push you to become involved in their “ministries,” which are actually recruitment tools.

As for the number of young people attending these services, this occurs because the churches aggressively market themselves to this demographic. We, and many other large Evangelical churches, had an “aesthetic committee” that had to approve every table decoration, every picture on the wall. If it was judged to be old-fashioned, it had to be removed since it might alienate the young. Music was selected for its appeal to the young crowd. The pre-school, Sunday School, and day care were all designed as recruitment tools.

Scripture tells us that in later times, people will “have a form of religion but deny its power.” Evangelicals deny parts of the Apostles Creed (the part about Jesus’ descending into hell and the communion of saints), the Real Presence, Baptism (they see it as only symbolic), and they actively promote falsehoods about the Catholic Church. Most of them are well-meaning, and some of them live very holy lives. But they have an obligation to make sure that they have their facts straight before they speak about other faiths in a negative manner.

The Presbyterian Church I grew up in was less obviously anti-Catholic, but at their Bible studies they would still refer to the Pope as the anti-Christ, and the Church as the Whore of Babylon. This isn’t what was preached on Sundays, but what was said in the privacy of a small group.

I have been a Catholic for two years. Believe me, if you have not been intimately involved in a Protestant Church, you have no idea of their mind-set. Every one of them believes that they are free to interpret Scripture however they want “with the help of the Spirit.” Since there is no yardstick to measure by, all sorts of bizarre beliefs crop up and this is why there are 10,000 Protestant denominations.

A great book is Karl Keating’s “Catholicism and Fundamentalism.” I don’t see how any Catholic could read this book and still want to attend a Protestant church.

 

[LDNCatholic]

I have a question for many of our readers. How many of you ever attended a Protestant church on a somewhat consecutive/ regular basis for a month or more? I’m asking because it seems like the ones who have the right to comment are those who were originally Protestant or spent a long period of time inside one for whatever reason. I’m talking about a good month or longer.

Anglican.

Why does that give us a right to comment over those who haven’t? The point is what the Church says, not what we say. Unlike these Protestant communities, the Church is not a democracy.

We talk about how the Protestants hate the Catholics but I have also been noticing that there is also alot of animosity towards the Protestants as well. How do you expect to them to like us if we aren’t willing to put out our hand and say hello.

I’m perfectly willing to speak with Protestants. I’m just not willing to lie to them about the heretical nature of their ecclesial community.

I’m not bothered in the slightest whether they ‘like’ us or not. We have the fullness of Truth.

 

[TrueLight]

Okay, Protestants don’t have the fullness of truth. Agreed.

But you’re “typical” evangelical spends a lot of time trying to get it right with God and developing a relationship with JESUS CHRIST. They read their bible and “search the scriptures”. They listen to Sermons in order to learn. Some of them avoid worldly music, parties, drinking in order to grow their relationship with God. They go to church not because it is an OBLIGATION but because the Bible says “I was glad when they said unto me. Let us go into the house of the Lord.” And guess what? The Lord knows he hearts of those who seek him.

Can you say the same of your “typical” Catholic? Seriously.

 

[TrueLight]

Okay, so I was a bit defensive there.

Sorry.

 

[BouncingBall]

I am an ardent RC yet out of curiosity I’d like to attend another Church just to see what its like at one of their worship services. My supervisor at work, in her manifold efforts to “save me,” has asked me attend her megachurch. I think its called Community of Christ. Anyways, what is the Church’s teaching on doing this?

A better question is – what is the company Human Resource department’s policy about this? A supervisor asking you to go to her church? What if you don’t go, will that affect your employment or chance at a raise/promotion at this company?

 

[LDNCatholic]

But you’re “typical” evangelical spends a lot of time trying to get it right with God and developing a relationship with JESUS CHRIST. They read their bible and “search the scriptures”. They listen to Sermons in order to learn. Some of them avoid worldly music, parties, drinking in order to grow their relationship with God. They go to church not because it is an OBLIGATION but because the Bible says “I was glad when they said unto me. Let us go into the house of the Lord.” And guess what? The Lord knows he hearts of those who seek him.

Your ‘typical’ evangelical also spends their time wandering around with only half the Truth, condemning others for not believing exactly as they do. No. I will not pretend that Protestants have something that they simply do not. They do not have a valid Church and there is simply no reason for a Catholic to regularly attend their services.

Can you say the same of your “typical” Catholic? Seriously.

You seem to have such a negative view of Catholics and the Catholic Church. Why are you contemplating joining?

I will say this. Faithful Evangelical Protestants are much louder about their faith than faithful Catholics. A Catholic strong in their faith does not tend to scream and shout about it. That is possibly the reason you seem to think that ‘typical’ Catholics have such weak faith and morals.

 

[convert999]

{Can you say the same of your “typical” Catholic? Seriously.}

I don’t know any “typical” Catholics, and I don’t know any “typical” Evangelicals. I know individuals who are trying to forge a relationship with Christ. Some of them are doing it the hard way. But in the end, we will all be judged as individuals, with perfect compassion and perfect justice.

I wonder at your motivation for joining the Catholic Church, when you have such a low opinion of Catholics. I hope you will meet some who live up to your standards.

 

[Ruth_Catherine]

Okay, Protestants don’t have the fullness of truth. Agreed.

But you’re “typical” evangelical spends a lot of time trying to get it right with God and developing a relationship with JESUS CHRIST. They read their bible and “search the scriptures”. They listen to Sermons in order to learn. Some of them avoid worldly music, parties, drinking in order to grow their relationship with God. They go to church not because it is an OBLIGATION but because the Bible says “I was glad when they said unto me. Let us go into the house of the Lord.” And guess what? The Lord knows he hearts of those who seek him.

Can you say the same of your “typical” Catholic? Seriously.

I think it would be fair to say that there are both Protestants and Catholics alike who try their best to live godly lives and both Protestants and Catholics alike who don’t. I believe, too, there are Protestants and Catholics alike who spend alot of time trying to get it right with God and work on developing a relationship with Jesus.

All relationships are two way streets. They need love, boundaries, rules and obligations, along with trust, work and committment. God has and is doing so much for us everyday. Our obligations are a way of giving to that relationship.

 

[Ruth_Catherine]

Thanks for the sound advice and personal insight.

I’ve decided to refrain from attending my supervisor’s worship service.

I will pray for your nephew and his new bride. Sadly, this isn’t rare in the divorce and remarriage happy USA. And yes, the pray intention for my sister to be wed in the Church is in my daily prayers. Good idea about the novena.

Thank you for your prayers. I will pray for your sister, also.

 

[TrueLight]

Convert and LDN…

I want to join because I do now believe that Catholics have the fullness of the faith – not to join the protestant bashing bandwagon.

Nor, will I believe my grandmother, who was the most loving, devout child of God I know, is any less of a child of God than Catholics.

 

[convert999]

True Light, I’m mystified as to why you are creating a controversy where none exists. We have not said that your grandmother was/is not a child of God. No one is saying she went/will go to Hell. That is not the position of the Catholic Church. We are merely pointing out that Protestants do not have the fullness of truth, and you agreed with that statement in an earlier post. I brought up the recruitment practices of megachurch Evangelicals. None of this is directed at you personally, so why the hostility? The initial post concerned visiting an Evangelical church. This is a Catholic forum. Did you expect everyone to think it was a great idea?

 

[LDNCatholic]

Nor, will I believe my grandmother, who was the most loving, devout child of God I know, is any less of a child of God than Catholics.

Quote where I said she was less of a child of God?

In fact, I will switch to the most anti Catholic, shouty, heretical branch of Protestantism here and now if you can find where I mentioned your grandmother and her faith?