Attending other churches

[Suudy]

My girlfriend and I are in the midst of a disagreement. Basically it boils down to her decision to attend a local evangelical church. She still attend mass with me, but I think it is more to appease me.

She says that she likes the worship, fellowship, and sermons at this evangelical church more than at our parish. She says she doesn’t feel like she’s being fed spiritually at our parish, so she’s attending with friends this other church. I’ve suggested we talk to the priest about what can be done, but I get pushback.

My biggest concern about her going to this other church is that she will be taught things contrary to the official Catholic teaching. She’s shown the their “Church 101” books, which is a sorta catechism. They teach that only those that have reached the age of reason can be baptized, baptism my immersion only, no sacraments, denial of the real presence, etc. I fear that if she continues to attend, she may begin to accept these teachings. And since people know she is Catholic, I think she will be especially targeted. She says she believes in what the Catholic church teaches, and doesn’t think she’ll be influenced.

When I object to her attendance, she responds that my “hard line” approach is “close-minded.” She says I’m not supporting her “faith journey” (a term an instructor in the RCIA class I’m in actually used!). But I don’t know how to sit back and just let her do her own thing. In my mind, not objecting is a sin of omission.

Anyone have advice on how to approach this? I don’t want to be overbearing and outright tell her she is “wrong.” I think her attendance is tacit support for their teachings. On the other hand, I’m not comfortable sitting back and letting her continue to attend.

I’ve suggested that we talk about what she learned in the sermon that week from the evangelical pastor, and compare it to the Catholic teaching. She rejects this idea because she thinks we are “letting the Catholic church think for us.” I’m at my wit’s end on what to do.

Any help is appreciated,
Suudy

 

[duck]

i would suggest first praying for her and then on to the Eucharist. ask her to try be be opened minded about Jesus meeting us in this special, intimate way. the best “feeding” in town!

 

[mrS4ntA]

The whole point of attending Holy Mass is to worship God – not to be entertained!

The sermons and the “fellowship” are irrelevant! I’ve been to good Masses and I’ve been to bad Masses, but it’s all the same Holy Mass! All focus is centered upon the altar, where Christ’s sacrifice is re-presented for us in the unbloody sacrifice.

The whole point is to partake in the breaking of the bread – the Eucharist – and to discern the Body and Blood of Our Lord! It’s a “divine Liturgy”, like what our Eastern brethrens call it. Ask her if she understands this or not.

It’s all about God, not the selfish us. When one understands this, there is no more need to seek entertainment out of Holy Mass.

 

[Timidity]

Suudy:

My girlfriend and I…

This is going to sound a bit cold-hearted. My emotional detachment from the situation makes it easy for me to sound that way.

The purpose of the boyfriend/girlfriend relationship is to determine whether or not the relationship will support marriage. Perhaps you have the answer.

 

[Suudy]

Timidity:

The purpose of the boyfriend/girlfriend relationship is to determine whether or not the relationship will support marriage. Perhaps you have the answer.

That has crossed my mind.

But if everyone that had a boyfriend/girlfriend gave up at the first sign of trouble, I think there would be a larger number of single people ine the world!

Suffice it to say, I’m not ready to give up on her yet.

Suudy

 

[Malachi4U]

Its a small world. My wife stopped attending protestant services when I proved to her that her Baptist preacher was teaching things not in Scripture.

Jesus never promised us being a Christian would be easy or fun. Does your girlfriend remember the early Church and all the pain the Christians/Catholics went through? Does she think because our country has a certain lifestyle that all nations are the same? If her ancestors were Christians 700 years ago which church did they belong too?

If she will discuss theology with you then try this:

Start at the year 0 A.D. and work through history to the present. Find out what the early Church taught and how it differs from protestants today. Study where the Bible came from and how it was written and find out why protestants deleted over 7 books from it. Study what Church was founded by Christ and what herisey’s split off from it and why. Study Luther and see if today’s protestants still abide by his teachings.

Here is the kicker. Ask her if Gods word is unchangeable. Does God change His word? If Gods word does not change then why do protestants change theology like I change my socks? Why do protestants disregard parts of Scripture they do not like? If there is but one truth can there be more then one Church?

Why can one protestant seminary teach teach two preachers contrary opinions on theology like calvinism. The preacher picks and chooses what he wants to believe and the seminary still gives a degree to the preacher.

Get her into some groups and activities at your Catholic Church. Change to a different parish if needed. Mass is a worship of God and is not a stage show. Give her some good books like “Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic”, “Crossing the Tiber”, “Home Sweet Rome”. Watch EWTN for conversion stories from protestant preachers. Go to the Comming Home Network and read the stories.

Get ideas and execute a plan. Allways be nice to your girlfriend and treat her with respect. It will be difficult but cults and sects keep their members by using social presure and ‘feel good’ ploys to keep members. Her friends in that Church will also pressure her to stop going to a Catholic Church and eventually to dump you or convert you.

 

[Reformed_Rob]

Not knowing how old you and your girlfriend are, or your/her church backgrounds, I can only say a basic thing:

Women are often flighty about some things. That “some” would include “most” things. Not all women, but generally speaking, that’s been my experience and friends of mines’ too.

That’s pretty major. I’m not even Catholic. But as a Reformed guy, I’d say that perhaps there are a few things in common.

I have a “girlfriend” that I’m not too serious with due to church issues. Not that I expect her to be totally commited to looking into my church because: I’m not that commited to her and she knows I’m somewhat serious about Catholicism. I just say that to let you know that I’m kind of into what you’re feeling here.

So, let me ask you > How serious are you in your relationship with her. Like, 1 to 10, generally speaking? I hope she gets from you that you’re serious about Catholicism, or rather about knowing and loving God, and communion with the Church in that.

If you’re not commited to her enough, then maybe she’s not going to be very responsive to your wanting her to be Catholic.

 

[MariaG]

I would not suggest this if you are not firmly founded, but if you are, have you considered attending with her? If you went with her, (and you are firmly founded) you will be able to point out to her the mistaken theology being spoken of from the pulpit. If you go and then show her how mistaken they are, yet she still continues to go, I would say you have your answer on whether or not it is time to “give up”. And start doing a lot of praying!

There is a wonderful atmosphere at evangelical churches. You just have to help her see not only the mistakes there, but the depth and fullness in Mass.

 

[Antonio_B]

Suudy:

My girlfriend and I are in the midst of a disagreement. Basically it boils down to her decision to attend a local evangelical church. She still attend mass with me, but I think it is more to appease me.

She says that she likes the worship, fellowship, and sermons at this evangelical church more than at our parish. She says she doesn’t feel like she’s being fed spiritually at our parish, so she’s attending with friends this other church. I’ve suggested we talk to the priest about what can be done, but I get pushback.

My biggest concern about her going to this other church is that she will be taught things contrary to the official Catholic teaching. She’s shown the their “Church 101” books, which is a sorta catechism. They teach that only those that have reached the age of reason can be baptized, baptism my immersion only, no sacraments, denial of the real presence, etc. I fear that if she continues to attend, she may begin to accept these teachings. And since people know she is Catholic, I think she will be especially targeted. She says she believes in what the Catholic church teaches, and doesn’t think she’ll be influenced.

When I object to her attendance, she responds that my “hard line” approach is “close-minded.” She says I’m not supporting her “faith journey” (a term an instructor in the RCIA class I’m in actually used!). But I don’t know how to sit back and just let her do her own thing. In my mind, not objecting is a sin of omission.

Anyone have advice on how to approach this? I don’t want to be overbearing and outright tell her she is “wrong.” I think her attendance is tacit support for their teachings. On the other hand, I’m not comfortable sitting back and letting her continue to attend.

I’ve suggested that we talk about what she learned in the sermon that week from the evangelical pastor, and compare it to the Catholic teaching. She rejects this idea because she thinks we are “letting the Catholic church think for us.” I’m at my wit’s end on what to do.

Any help is appreciated,
Suudy

I don’t care what she likes. The public worship of the Church is not a matter of taste and as a Catholic she has no business going anywhere else but to a Catholic parish.

Antonio

 

[StSteverino]

I am a new member with issues that may inform your consideration.

Your girlfriend is flirting with apostasy and no question, Protestant Churches can be very warm, friendly, entertaining and yes, nurturing in a Christ Centered way.

You can not be her cop, else you will give our Ancient and Holy Faith a bad name, but neither can you be her enabler.

Are you guys living pure? I hope so. In any case, do not judge her, but do not help her. I left the church, came back and I can tell you I learned a great deal that God is using. But it comes from self inflicted wounds I regret. You can learn a lot by shooting yourself in the foot, but I do not recommend it.

The point is, she is going on her journey with or with out you and you may have to discern whether you are meant to be together.

Christ has to be everything. If she were a Protestant from the cradle you could justify marrying her, but I do not see how you can marry an apostate Catholic. And I do not think she would honor the promise to raise the children Catholic, because as she goes down this road, she will initially become more and more anti-Catholic. Its part of the journey or pathology if you will.

Lecturing her with clever apologetics from this or any other source is a wast of time.

Love her, pray for her and prepare your heart for martyrdom.

You may have to live without her, but in so doing you may plant seeds that save her soul.

Listen to Peter Stravinskas 3 tap series, Evangelizing the Apostate.

I will hold you up in prayer. Practice radical love and forgiveness but do not support her error.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

As your girlfriend, you don’t have a “right” to tell her what church she may not go to, but you do have a “right” to feel however you want about it.

If you decided to become engaged, then you would need to make agreements such as church attendance and how to raise the children.

Meanwhile, depending on where you live, you might look into what resources your diocese offers for the Catholic who wants more than “just” going to Mass. If she’s looking for that exciting, emotional experience, then you might see if there is a Catholic charismatic activity in your area. Really that isn’t a fair comparison, because feeding the emotions and feeding the spirit are not the same thing, although in many churches they get confused.

If she wants to learn more about faith, the miracles of the saints, and hear all sorts of exciting stories, see if your diocesan office has a videotape library or can direct you to any retreats or programs for spiritual growth to help her in her “spiritual journey.” If she is really serious about her prayer life and the “spiritual journey” you might want to see if Contemplative Outreach has any meetings in your area for meditative or contemplative prayer forms such as Lectio Divina or centering prayer, in some places such as here in Wichita they combine prayer with instructional videotapes on the spiritual journey.

There are many ways to satisfy spiritual hunger that are within the Catholic Church, although their easy availability does depend somewhat on location.

Other than that, good luck. Other posters have already given you quite a few good ideas. There’s not a lot you can do to keep her from going to the other churches, especially if she thinks you are messing up her spiritual life by trying.

Alan

 

[Cherubino]

Alan,

Somehow I think you’ll like this:

"At this point I am making a public renunciation, in my own name at least, of all tactical, clerical, apologetic designs upon the sincerity of your unbelief. . . I think this apology is demanded by the respect I have for my own faith. If I, as a Christian, believe that my first duty is to love and respect my fellow in his personal frailty and perplexity, in his own unique hazard and need for trust, then I think that the refusal to let him alone, to entrust him to God and his conscience, and the insistence on rejecting them as persons until they agree with me, is simply a sign that my own faith is inadequate.

“My own peculiar task in my Church and in my world has been that of the solitary explorer who, instead of jumping on all the latest bandwagons at once, is bound to search the existential depths of faith in its silences, its ambiguities, and in those certainties which lie deeper than the bottom of anxiety. In these depths there are no easy answers, no pat solutions to anything. It is a kind of submarine life in which faith sometimes mysteriously takes on the aspect of doubt, when, in fact, one has to doubt and reject conventional and superstitious surrogates that have taken the place of faith. On this level, the division between believer and unbeliever ceases to be so crystal clear. It is not that some are all right and others all wrong: all are bound to seek in honest perplexity. Everybody is an unbeliever more or less.”

From “Apologies to an Unbeliever” by Thomas Merton

 

[triciafrancess]

Reformed Rob:

Women are often flighty about some things. That “some” would include “most” things. Not all women, but generally speaking, that’s been my experience and friends of mines’ too.

Dear Rob,

I’m surprised you haven’t been taken to task yet for that statement, so I guess I’ll have to be the one to do it. Your answer is just about as helpful as saying men are opinionated pigs.

Take a look around your church next time you go and observe the ratio of men to women. I’ll just bet there are a lot more women. What does that say about men? Could it be interpreted to mean that men are the ones who are flighty?

The rest of my message is for Suudy:

I would say that some women respond more to emotionally stirring experiences than men (who are attracted by discipline and reason), and it’s likely that your girlfriend is looking for the opportunity to express her commitment to God more outwardly than she can at Mass. I can understand how the praise and worship send her home feeling as though she’s had a spiritual awakening. Music is very powerful, which is why it’s often an emphasis in evangelical churches.

What your girlfriend wants is to feel inspired about her faith. Most of us know that is not only possible in the Catholic Church, it’s more possible than anywhere else. Your girlfriend needs to be connected with some resources that can help her develop devotions or become involved in ministries that bring her closer to Christ. I don’t know how old you are, but World Youth Day 2005 comes to mind.

Here is a link to Life on the Rock’s WYD page:
ewtn.com/rock/wyd05.htm

Blessings and inner peace,
Tricia Frances

 

[mayra_hart]

i have never have the experience of attending services in another church that is not catholic so i can say much. this year i attended to a play of the passion of jesus and everything was ok until i saw that one character wasn’t present an this was mary. in that moment i realized the differences. so i imagine there services have a lot of mayor differences as compare to the catholic mass. i can’imagine being in a service with no mary or no eucharistic. i will feel very incomplete. so for me iam not into how the music is or how the father talks for me is the eucharistic and the presence of god and the virgin that make attending mass a must in my life. bless you all

 

[moira]

triciafrancess:

Dear Rob,

I’m surprised you haven’t been taken to task yet for that statement, so I guess I’ll have to be the one to do it. Your answer is just about as helpful as saying men are opinionated pigs.

Take a look around your church next time you go and observe the ratio of men to women. I’ll just bet there are a lot more women. What does that say about men? Could it be interpreted to mean that men are the ones who are flighty?

Blessings and inner peace,
Tricia Frances

Thank you triciafrancess. I was just about to get around to that but you beat me to the punch!

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Cherubino:

Somehow I think you’ll like this:

From “Apologies to an Unbeliever” by Thomas Merton

You always seem to know.

Lately I’ve been reading a book by an evidently famous Lutheran theologian who was recently quoted in a Catholic magazine, “doubt is not the absence of faith; it is an element of faith.” That quote got me headed straight for the library!

Alan

 

[Finella]

You have already received alot of great advice…so there is not much that I can add.

Like some others who have already posted, I feel that the sole pupose of dating is to find a spouse.

You said something about the fact that if everyone dating left at the first sign of trouble, there would be a lot more single people…well, consider the alternative. If everyone dating left at the first sign of “trouble” (meaning fundamental differences in beliefs and values) there would be a whole lot less divorce!

This is a very personal decision for you and nobody can tell you what to do. But please weigh all of the opinions and advice carefully.

I am of the personal belief that relationships and marriages should start out on the strongest foundation possible. If it were me, I would not consider this person suitable for dating right now. I would end the relationship and let her know why. If she is open to it, I would try to remain friends so that she would have a Catholic person to turn to for advise if the occassion should arise.

I still don’t understand why people insist on staying in relationships when the two people have such core differences. And I speak from the experience of being one of them.

Finella

 

[ridesawhitehors]

Suudy ~

Hello.
I agree mostly with the opinions that have advised you to hold on to this situation with an open hand. I don’t wish to disparage your girlfriend, but, being a spirited girl myself - I know that if you push an issue like religion it will only be a push AWAY from you and your opinion. And what she is doing is a definate deal-breaker in the end.

Live your faith, don’t go to the protestant church with her, stand your ground, but not as a tool to provoke her. She just needs to know that a serious relationship with a protestant is outside of your orbit. You have to be prepared, as Ststererino said for martyrdom in this situation.

I agree with those that have emphasized that the “feel good, inward, feed ME” psycho-babble of evangelicalism has great appeal to many---- and must be contrasted against the TRUE PRESENCE, and outward worship of God. (I know, I’m a girl who was trapped in that world for years before converting.)

I wish you the best Suudy, but it just doesn’t sound good. Sorry.

Ridesawhitehorse.

 

[kage_ar]

Imagine for a moment, you have a little brother. As children, you are all part of the same family; you are raised with the same beliefs. As you reach adult hood, your brother is a good person, he is a volunteer fireman and an awarded musician. One day, he decides that your entire family is evil, you are the antichrist incarnate. He leaves the family home, begins to work on bringing other members of the family to his new dwelling. He publishes books and television programs about how wonderful his way of life is (he is still a good man, still saving kittens and teaching ABCs to 5 year olds), he uses these amazing skills and charisma to draw people away from your family. Once he begins to bring them over, he begins to whisper about ya’ll being evil and all that.

Forward a few years, you meet your girlfriend. You are in love and she lives in your family’s village and is part of your extended family. Your girlfriend LOVES to disco dance. You do not disco, your family has a wonderful ball with ballroom dancing every Friday, just no disco.

She tells you that she has found a disco partner. While she will still go out with you on Friday night, every Saturday evening she will be discoing with her new partner. You ask who it is – and she tells you it is your brother!

You talk to her about how he left the family and believe it to be errant. You are concerned that he will try to influence her. She tells you that you are not letting her follow her love of disco. That she still loves you and will not be moved, but she NEEDS to disco with your brother every week. There is no WAY she could think you are the antichrist she laughs…

I’d wager that you would be right there at the disco hall each week, making sure that she was not influenced by your brother, all the while – trying to show her the beauty of the tango and waltz.

Peace - Kage

 

[Reformed_Rob]

triciafrancess:

Dear Rob,

I’m surprised you haven’t been taken to task yet for that statement, so I guess I’ll have to be the one to do it. Your answer is just about as helpful as saying men are opinionated pigs.

Take a look around your church next time you go and observe the ratio of men to women. I’ll just bet there are a lot more women. What does that say about men? Could it be interpreted to mean that men are the ones who are flighty?

Blessings and inner peace,
Tricia Frances

Tricia,

Well, this thread is not about me, and I think it would be better for Suudy to judge if what I said was helpful to him or not, rather than you. I thought that if anything I said was to be considered in the least bit “offensive”, it would have been what you pointed out. Well, I apologize. I’m always encouraged to meet Christian women who are chaste and love the Lord and want to have a godly family one day. Unfortunately, most men as well as women fail to be very serious about that. I know I fail a lot myself. BTW > There are very few women in my church compared to men, so…

The disco analogy seemed odd at first, but ended up being pretty cool.

Suudy,

I have 2 estranged friends (1 guy / 1 girl) who both are apostate now due to issues with the opposite sex. There are right at this instant 2 other friends that are in the danger zone. I’m talking about once faithful people, that make a little compromise here and a little compromise there, and it ends up shipwrecking them. Not that I think that’s where you are at, or are going, but while it is worth taking some time and effort to bring your girlfriend back to the Catholic faith, it’s going to be hard to have her perceiving you as the clingy guy who always goes to non-catholic services with her and correcting the teaching in whatever way you choose to go about it. There’s much ground there for compromise, and plenty of ground for being confident and faithful to your Church.

You so want her to see things your way (or the Church’s way) and end her “faith journey.” But she’s got her own things going on in her mind, and even if you know what they are, it probably wouldn’t help. She’s going to do her own thing. However, you could try to get her (maybe you and her could do it together) to read some writings by Church Fathers or Church Doctors. Homilies on the Scriptures, Devotional/Devout Life Spirituality type things, meditations on Eucharist Adoration, man, you’re Catholic! You’ve got almost infinite resources!! Get her in on the Deposit of the Faith! Some girls aren’t too interested in doctrine like guys are, but you should know what she’s after in the evangelical churches, and show her the Catholic counterpart. Ask her to talk to the evangelical pastor about their church’s view of marriage, and then (or before that) fill her in on the Catholic church’s teaching on marriage. She should see that the Catholic church’s teaching is meaty, it answers and rebukes the family problems in our day. You believe marriage is a Sacrament, and you treat it as such! Make sure that if she turns her back on the Catholic church, she knows what she’s turning away from.