Attention all Bible Scholars, can anyone explain Luke 2:33?

[Jimmy_B]

**Attention all Bible Scholars, can anyone explain **
Luke 2:33?

**

Luke 2:33

33 The child’s father and mother were amazed at what was said about him;34 and Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, “Behold, this child is destined for the fall and rise of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be contradicted35 (and you yourself a sword will pierce) so that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.” (Luke (NAB) 2)
**

 

[Todd_Easton]

From A Commentary on the New Testament, prepared by the Catholic Biblical Association in 1942, page 242:
33. His father: both before the law and in the eyes of the people Joseph was the father of Jesus; since the Evangelist has already stressed the virgin-birth of our Lord, he knows that the reader will not misunderstand this ordinary form of speech. 34 f. The mission of Christ will have a twofold effect in accordance with the dispositions of men. Some will be scandalized by His humility, poverty and death on the cross, and hence refuse to acknowledge Him as the Christ, so that He will be the occasion of their eternal ruin. To others, however, who receive Him and His doctrine He will bring eternal life. Cf. Isa. 8:14; Rom. 9:33; 1 Pet. 2:7. The sense would be clearer if the passage were punctuated: And for a sign that shall be contradicted—and thy own soul a sword shall pierce—that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed. Christ makes every man take a definite stand in His regard; as a result every man thereby shows the dispositions of his heart. The prophecy concerning our Lady, which is expressed in the parenthesis, was fulfilled especially in Christ’s Passion. Man’s rejection of her divine Son was to her a sword of sorrow.

 

[bible_man]

interesting

 

[SyCarl]

It is a difficult passage. Here are a couple of views from the church fathers.

Basil of Caesarea

1. By a sword is meant the word which tries and judges our thoughts, which pierces even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of our thoughts. Now every soul in the hour of the Passion was subjected, as it were, to a kind of searching. According to the word of the Lord it is said, “All you shall be offended because of me.” Matthew 26:3 Simeon therefore prophesies about Mary herself, that when standing by the cross, and beholding what is being done, and hearing the voices, after the witness of Gabriel, after her secret knowledge of the divine conception, after the great exhibition of miracles, she shall feel about her soul a mighty tempest. The Lord was bound to taste of death for every man—to become a propitiation for the world and to justify all men by His own blood. Even you yourself, who hast been taught from on high the things concerning the Lord, shall be reached by some doubt. This is the sword. “That the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.” He indicates that after the offence at the Cross of Christ a certain swift healing shall come from the Lord to the disciples and to Mary herself, confirming their heart in faith in Him. In the same way we saw Peter, after he had been offended, holding more firmly to his faith in Christ. What was human in him was proved unsound, that the power of the Lord might be shown.

newadvent.org/fathers/3202260.htm

Cyril of Alexandria

And Symeon further said to the holy Virgin, “Yea, a sword shall go through thy own soul also,” meaning by the sword the pain which she suffered for Christ, in seeing Him Whom she brought forth crucified; and not knowing at all that He would be more mighty than death, and rise again from the grave. Nor mayest thou wonder that the Virgin knew this not, when we shall find even the holy Apostles themselves with little faith thereupon: for verily the blessed Thomas, had he not thrust his hands into His side after the resurrection, and felt also the prints of the nails, would have disbelieved the other disciples telling him, that Christ was risen, and had shewed Himself unto them,(Commentaries on Luke, Sermon IV)

tertullian.org/fathers/cyril_on_luke_01_sermons_01_11.htm#C4

 

[bible_man]

Thank you!

 

[CryptoCatholic]

The underlined verses in Luke 2:34 are easy to interpret.

“Sword” is a type, or symbol, for “the word of God.” Paul says so, at Ephesians 6:14.

So, when Simeon told Mary that a sword would pierce her, the Holy Spirit was warning Mary, through Simeon, that the events which would comprise God’s message to the world, the gospel, were going to hurt Mary terribly – she would witness the torture and murder of her beloved child.

The thoughts of many hearts would be revealed when they “contradict the sign” by committing themselves against Christ.

 

[Jimmy_B]

**Attention all Bible Scholars, can anyone explain **

---

**Luke 2:33
**33 The child’s father and mother were amazed at what was said about him;34 and Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, “Behold, this child is destined for the fall and rise of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be contradicted35 (and you yourself a sword will pierce) so that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.” (Luke (NAB) 2)

 

[COPLAND_3]

SyCarl,

All right! Somebody else who finds answers from the Fathers of the Church!

As far as 2:35 here are some more insights from the Fathers

GREG. NYSS. Though these things are said of the Son, yet they have reference also to His mother, who takes each thing to herself, whether it be of danger or glory. He announces to her not only her prosperity, but her sorrows; for it follows, And a sword shall pierce through your own heart.

THEOPHYL; No history tells us that Mary departed this life by being slain with the sword, therefore since not the soul but the body is killed with iron, we are left to understand that sword which is mentioned, And a sword in their lips, that is, grief because of our Lord’s passion passed through her soul, who although she saw Christ the very Son of God die a voluntary death, and doubted not that He who was begotten of her flesh would overcome death, could not without grief see Him crucified.

AMBROSE; Or it shows the wisdom of Mary, that she was not ignorant of the heavenly Majesty For the word of God is living and strong, and sharper than the sharpest sword

AUG. Or by this is signified that Mary also, through whom was performed the mystery of the incarnation, looked with doubt and astonishment at the death of her Lord, seeing the Son of God so humbled as to come down even to death. And as a sword passing close by a man causes fear, though it does not strike him; so doubt also causes sorrow, yet does not kill; for it is not fastened to the mind, but passes through it as through a shadow.

GREG. NYSS. But it is not meant that she alone was concerned in that passion, for it is added, that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed. The word that marks the non event; it is not used causatively; for when all these events took place, there followed the discovery of many men’s intentions. For some confessed God on the cross, others even then ceased not from their blasphemies and revilings. Or this was said, meaning that at the time of the passion the thoughts of men’s hearts should be laid open, and be corrected by the resurrection. For doubts are quickly superseded by certainty. Or perhaps by revealing may be meant, the enlightening of the thoughts, as it is often used in Scripture.

THEOPHYL; But now even down to the close of the present time, the sword of the severest tribulation ceases not to go through the soul of the Church, when with bitter sorrow she experiences the evil speaking against the sign of faith, when hearing the word of God that many are raised with Christ, she finds still more falling from the faith, when at the revealing of the thoughts of many hearts, in which the good seed of the Gospel has been sown, she beholds the tares of vice overshooting it, spreading beyond it, or growing alone.

But since I am not sure if the original poster meant 2:33 or the 2:35 since they underlined it, let me give some insights about 2:33.

ORIGEN; Both by the angel and the multitude of the heavenly host, by the shepherds also, and Simeon.

THEOPHYL; Joseph is called the father of the Savior, not because he was (as the Photinians say) His real father, but because from regard to the reputation of Mary, all men considered him so.

AUG. He however might be called His father in that light in which, he is rightly regarded as the husband of Mary, that is, not from any carnal connection, but by reason of the very bond of wedlock, a far closer relationship than that of adoption. For that Joseph was not to be called Christ’s father was not, because he had not begotten Him by cohabitation, since in truth he might be a father to one whom he had not begotten from his wife, but had adopted from another.

ORIGEN; But they who look deeper into the matter may say, that since the genealogy is deduced from David to Joseph, therefore lest Joseph should seem to be mentioned for no purpose, as not being the father of the Savior, he was called His father, that the genealogy might maintain sup. its place.

GREEK EX. Having given praise to God, Simeon now turns to bless them that brought the Child, as it follows, And Simeon blessed them. He gave to each a blessing, but his presage of hidden things he imparts only to the mother, in order that in the common blessing He might not deprive Joseph of the likeness of a father, but in what he says to the mother apart from Joseph he might proclaim her to be the true mother.

 

[Watcher1]

Luke 2:33-35
33 The child’s father and mother were amazed at what was said about him;34 and Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, “Behold, this child is destined for the fall and rise of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be contradicted 35 (and you yourself a sword will pierce) so that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.”(Luke (NAB) 2)

Verse 35 is a **very specific and personal “prophecy” made by Simeon to Mary. He is telling her “in advance” about something that will happen to her **in the future.

The nature of bible prophecy is to induce “faith”. In other words, God tells us what will happen “in advance”, so that when it is fulfilled, we will believe. Believe what? Believe that the words spoken are TRUE, and that the Speaker is in fact AUTHENTIC. That is because only God, who dwells in eternity, knows the future, down to the most minute details and timing. In the following example, Jesus has just told the disciples that he would be betrayed. He was “prophesying” to them in order to strengthen their yet “weak” faith in who He really was.

• "From now on I am telling you **before **it comes to pass, so that **when **it does occur, you may **believe *that I am He." Jhn 13:19 NASB-
  After this prophecy came to pass, the disciples would remember what he had said to them and make the connection that He was truly the Son of God, or God in the Flesh, and believe that every word He said was TRUE.

It was the ministry of the Holy Spirit to help them “remember” the things that Jesus had told them.

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you."Jhn 14:26 NASB

In another example, Jesus “prophesies” to the disciples about His departure and the coming of the Holy Spirit, and says:

• “Now I have told you** before ***it happens, so that when it happens, you may believe.” Jhn 14:29 NASB

Again, after this prophecy came to pass, the Holy Spirit would bring to their remembrance, what Jesus had told them. When they recognized that He KNEW all things IN ADVANCE, they would BELIEVE that He indeed was WHO He said He was and that every WORD He spoke was TRUE. Eventually, they would become “cemented” in their faith in Him and His Word.

The prophecy to Mary by Simeon, under the influence of the Holy Spirit, served the same purpose. God was lovingly preparing her for the horrific trial that lay ahead, and for a **very specific point in time, **when her soul would be pierced with a sword during the course of events. After it happened, she would “remember” that it had been told to her IN ADVANCE, and this realization would help to strengthen her and get her through.Keep in mind that Mary, like the disciples, really didn’t understand yet that before the Messiah was to set up His Kingdom in Israel and rule and reign, He was going to be Crucified.

Mary was given further prophecies from the beginning by the Angel Gabriel, then the Shepherds who relayed what they had been told by the Angel, Simeon at the Temple, Anna the Prophetess at the Temple who confirmed the words of Simeon, and by Jesus Himself up until the time of His death on the cross. God was with Mary every step of the way by His Words, which she lovingly kept and pondered in her heart.

Hope this helps.

QUESTION: Could you tell me what version NAB stand for? Thanks.

 

[TimothyH]

The nature of bible prophecy is to induce​

“faith”. In other words, God tells us what will happen “in advance”, so that when it is fulfilled, we will believe. Believe what? Believe that the words spoken are TRUE, and that the Speaker is in fact AUTHENTIC.

But the purpose of prophecy is not just to induce faith. God could have predicted an earthquake or a thunderstorm and done that. The message contained in the prophecy has meaning in and of itself beyond just that of helping people to know that God is real.

Mary’s heart was entwined with Jesus’ for nine months in the womb. They shared their very life. When Jesus heart was pierced, so was Mary’s. I’m not completely up to speed on the theology of Mary as co-redmetrix and mediatrix of all grace but that, I belive, is the gist of that passage.

-Tim-
​

​

 

[Watcher1]

But the purpose of prophecy is not just to induce faith. God could have predicted an earthquake or a thunderstorm and done that. The message contained in the prophecy has meaning in and of itself beyond just that of helping people to know that God is real.

Mary’s heart was entwined with Jesus’ for nine months in the womb. They shared their very life. When Jesus heart was pierced, so was Mary’s. I’m not completely up to speed on the theology of Mary as co-redmetrix and mediatrix of all grace but that, I belive, is the gist of that passage.

-Tim-

Hi Tim,

You’re right, inducing faith in God and His Word is not the only purpose of prophecy. 1 Cor 14:3 says:

*"But one who prophesies speaks to men **for edification *and exhortation and consolation."

To those who already believe that God is real and that His Word is true, those who are growing in their faith, (as it is a process) the Prophetic Word of God serves to edify, or “build up” or “strengthen” that person’s faith. It serves to exhort, or “encourage” and to console, or “comfort” that person.

In that way, God used His Prophetic Word to strengthen, encourage, and comfort Mary along the way.

Did you have a particular passage in mind that you might share as an example of when Jesus heart was pierced?

Thanks,
God Bless

 

[TimothyH]

Did you have a particular passage in mind that you might share as an example of when Jesus heart was pierced?

Perhapse I’m being a little defensive today or perhapse I’ve been through this enough times that my haunches are up… In all honesty, I sense a trap. Please prove me wrong.

***But when they came to Jesus and saw that he was already dead, they did not break his legs, but one soldier thrust his lance into his side, and immediately blood and water flowed out. *(John 19:33-34)

Exhort, encourage, console, comfort… all very vague terms, not at all indicating the fact that there is a very definite message behind the prophecy uttered by Simeon aside from generally proving to Mary that God is really who he claims to be and giving her encouragement, strength and fortitude.

I’ll cut to the chase… There is a very definite message here about Mary being the co-redumtrix with Christ. I’m not up on marian theology enough to be able to speak to the issue with any certainty other than to say that it is there. In both of your posts you seem to be focusing on a generalization of all prophecy in terms of it’s usefullness to teach and to impart faith without going into the specifics of what the OP asked… what does this prophecy mean? Luke 2:35 means something other than “be at peace, have faith, take courage and know that I am God.”

Please accept my apology if I am reading your position incorrectly and not being as charitable as I should.

-Tim-

 

[Watcher1]

Perhapse I’m being a little defensive today or perhapse I’ve been through this enough times that my haunches are up… In all honesty, I sense a trap. Please prove me wrong.

***But when they came to Jesus and saw that he was already dead, they did not break his legs, but one soldier thrust his lance into his side, and immediately blood and water flowed out. ***(John 19:33-34)

Exhort, encourage, console, comfort… all very vague terms, not at all indicating the fact that there is a very definite message behind the prophecy uttered by Simeon aside from generally proving to Mary that God is really who he claims to be and giving her encouragement, strength and fortitude.

I’ll cut to the chase… There is a very definite message here about Mary being the co-redumtrix with Christ. I’m not up on marian theology enough to be able to speak to the issue with any certainty other than to say that it is there. In both of your posts you seem to be focusing on a generalization of all prophecy in terms of it’s usefullness to teach and to impart faith without going into the specifics of what the OP asked… what does this prophecy mean? Luke 2:35 means something other than “be at peace, have faith, take courage and know that I am God.”

Please accept my apology if I am reading your position incorrectly and not being as charitable as I should.

-Tim-

Thanks for sharing the Scripture verse. I just wanted to have a better idea of where you were coming from when you said that Jesus’ heart was pierced. That was the Scripture that I was thinking of.

No, there is no “trap”. I have no desire to argue about anything. I just love God’s Word and have been doing a study in Luke and when I came across this question in this forum, became curious about what others might think about this verse and if I might contribute some insight. This particular verse has always been at the top of my list of “intriguing” verses in the Bible.

The verse that you posted is interesting in that there is still a future fulfillment of it. Bible prophecy oftentimes has more than one fulfillment. For example, in the passage that you quoted John 19:33-34 from, John says that the piercing of Jesus’ side was prophesied in the Old Testament. But before that, he too, mentions the fact, for what it’s worth, that Jesus’ legs were not broken, and neither was His side pierced, in order that the Prophetic Scriptures would be fulfilled. He also states that the reason he has witnessed and testified to this is so that the reader might “believe” the TRUTH of God’s Word. He says:

And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you also may believe.Jhn 19:35 NASB

For these things came to pass **to fulfill **the Scripture, "NOT A BONE OF HIM SHALL BE BROKEN."Jhn 19:36 NASB

And again another Scripture says, "THEY SHALL LOOK ON HIM WHOM THEY PIERCED."Jhn 19:37 NASB

The Old Testament Scripture about His bones not being broken would be a reference to Psalm 34:20, and the reference to His piercing would be in Zechariah:

"I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn. Zec 12:10 NASB

This verse in Zechariah points forward not only to the crucifixion of Christ, but to his second coming as well:

BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
Rev 1:7 NASB

As far as the prophecy to Mary that “a sword would pierce even her own soul”, goes, I think there’s a couple different aspects to consider in trying to get to the real meaning and try and p(name removed by moderator)oint when the fulfillment of this prophecy actually occured. For one thing, (this is just my thoughts now, I’m not trying to argue) I’m not sure that the Scripture is actually connecting the prophecy about Mary’s “soul” being pierced to the piercing of Christ’s “side”. There’s a couple reasons for this. The two verses don’t really line up well.

For instance, the prophecy about Mary’s “soul” being “pierced” with a sword is obviously metaphorical, whereas the prophecy about Jesus being “pierced” is literal. If we want to get technical about it, which we should, because we believe that every word of God is true and accurate, then we can’t help but notice that the Greek word used for “sword” [G4501] in Luke 2:35 is not the same word used for “lance” [3057] in John 19:34. The word used for “pierce” [G1330] in Luke 2:35 is not the same word used for “pierced” [G3572] in John 19:34. “Soul” [G5590] is not the same as “side” [G4125], and Mary’s soul would be pierced with a sword while she was still alive, whereas Jesus was pierced with a lance after he was already dead.

Most of these differences of course can be related to the fact that one prophecy is metaphorical and one is literal.

I think that in order to discover a “meaning” for the prophecy to Mary, we should try to p(name removed by moderator)oint the fulfillment of it first. I believe that just as the “literal” prophecy about Jesus being pierced was literally fulfilled, so the “metaphorical” prophecy about Mary was literally fulfilled. If so, we should be able to find it somewhere in the Scripture . Do you agree?

One more question not just to you, but to myself also: If the prophecy to Mary is not connected to the piercing of Christ’s side, then what would it be connected to?

I’ve got to go now.
God Bless

 

[kentuckyliz]

The effects of original and personal sin dull the depths of compassion that we would have at the foot of the Cross–and I say this as one who screams at the TV screen through hot salty tears every Good Friday as I put myself through watching the Passion of the Christ movie again.

Mary, redeemed from original and personal sin by Christ from her very conception, would have no blunting or dullness to her compassion, which is from com passio–to suffer with, her grief, or sorrow. She experienced it full blast.

If you have ever been seared by grief and anguish, you know it feels like a sword piercing your soul!

Our Lady of Sorrows is images as Mary with one or seven swords piercing her heart–referring to this prophecy of Simeon. The rosary of the Seven Sorrows is enjoying a resurgence right now, because of the fulfilled prophetic messages of Our Lady of Kibeho. I have a really lovely recorded version by Immaculee Ilibagiza, heroic survivor of the Rwandan genocide who immediately forgave her family’s murderers–with that lovely African accent.

The Pieta powerfully communicates that grief of the sorrowful mother.

 

[kentuckyliz]

I don’t think Mary needed mire faith and consolation at that point:

The archangel Gabriel had appeared to her! The Holy Spirit overshadowed her! (same word as the shekinah glory overshadowing the tabernacle)
Her cousin Elizabeth spontaneously prophesied at her!
These two events involved the Holy Spirit–not widely available to all before Pentecost!
Shepherds and Magi and angels surrounded her son’s birth!
Dreams led her holy hubby to accept his mission, to protect her and the child–immediately, without question or doubt or objection or excuse.

She was surrounded by angels and miracles and prophecies, and you think Simeon’s prophecy was to encourage her faith or comfort her?! That’s crazy.

Simeon is the one who is comforted: Lord, you can let me die now, I’ve seen the messiah like you promised.

 

[kentuckyliz]

Oh, and by the way, have a blessed Feast of the Pesentation of our Lord, which we celebrate Feb. 2–just a couple days from now!