Attention all Catechists!

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Last week one of my adult students provided an answer to the following question, a fill-in-the-blank query from the The New St. Joseph Baltimore Catechism No. 2 (for specifics, Lesson 27, page 176, fill in the blank item #1).

To the following:
The Mass is the sacrament of Christ’s_________. The answer is sacrifice.
Based on the explanation at page 169: “The Mass is the sacrament, or sign, of Christ’s sacrifice.”
She countered with Christ’s death on the cross.

I admit I was temporarily stumped and I promised her I would come back this week with an explanation. After rereading the material, would it be safe to say, yes at the Mass we celebrate his death on the cross, the ultimate and life-giving sacrifice that won for us eternal life.

Your IMs and feedback appreciated,
Joe
 
Last week one of my adult students provided an answer to the following question, a fill-in-the-blank query from the The New St. Joseph Baltimore Catechism No. 2 (for specifics, Lesson 27, page 176, fill in the blank item #1).

To the following:
The Mass is the sacrament of Christ’s_________. The answer is sacrifice.
Based on the explanation at page 169: “The Mass is the sacrament, or sign, of Christ’s sacrifice.”
She countered with Christ’s death on the cross.

I admit I was temporarily stumped and I promised her I would come back this week with an explanation. After rereading the material, would it be safe to say, yes at the Mass we celebrate his death on the cross, the ultimate and life-giving sacrifice that won for us eternal life.

Your IMs and feedback appreciated,
Joe
Sounds fine to me.

Chuck
 
Last week one of my adult students provided an answer to the following question, a fill-in-the-blank query from the The New St. Joseph Baltimore Catechism No. 2 (for specifics, Lesson 27, page 176, fill in the blank item #1).

To the following:
The Mass is the sacrament of Christ’s_________. The answer is sacrifice.
Based on the explanation at page 169: “The Mass is the sacrament, or sign, of Christ’s sacrifice.”
She countered with Christ’s death on the cross.

I admit I was temporarily stumped and I promised her I would come back this week with an explanation. After rereading the material, would it be safe to say, yes at the Mass we celebrate his death on the cross, the ultimate and life-giving sacrifice that won for us eternal life.

Your IMs and feedback appreciated,
Joe
 
Sounds good to me too. Jesus accomplished His sacrifice by dying on the cross, so the two answers seem to be interchangeable to me.
 
Last week one of my adult students provided an answer to the following question, a fill-in-the-blank query from the The New St. Joseph Baltimore Catechism No. 2 (for specifics, Lesson 27, page 176, fill in the blank item #1).

To the following:
The Mass is the sacrament of Christ’s_________. The answer is sacrifice.
Based on the explanation at page 169: “The Mass is the sacrament, or sign, of Christ’s sacrifice.”
She countered with Christ’s death on the cross.

I admit I was temporarily stumped and I promised her I would come back this week with an explanation. After rereading the material, would it be safe to say, yes at the Mass we celebrate his death on the cross, the ultimate and life-giving sacrifice that won for us eternal life.

Your IMs and feedback appreciated,
Joe
I would personally consider that explanation completely wrong. No one celebrates death. We can celebrate Christ’s sacrifice, but we mourn his death.
 
I would personally consider that explanation completely wrong. No one celebrates death. We can celebrate Christ’s sacrifice, but we mourn his death.
The passion, death and ressurection are a strict unity. The passion and death of Christ are not an end in and of themselves, but a means to an end.

That’s why some Christians don’t have hope. They view the passion and death of Christ and they mourn. But the story does not end on Holy Saturday with Christ in the tomb. The story ends on Easter Sunday with and empty tomg. The end is ressurection. The end is reign in glory. The ressurection should give us hope.

Yes we mourn Christ’s death. It is very difficult for me to read the passion narratives this time of year. I sometimes cry. But we also celebrate the fact that he died for us so that we could rise to new life with him, because without it we are no better than Cain or Judas. The cross is viewed similarly, both as an instrument of torture and as an instrument of salvation. The cross is both horizontal and vertical. You can’t have one without the other.

We cannot view the passion and death of Christ apart from his ressurection. And we cannot view the instrument of Christ’s death apart from it also being an instrument of our salvation. These are strict unities and should be reasons for great hope.

-Tim-
 
The Mass is a participation in Calvary, so I see the terms “Christ’s death on the cross” and “Christ’s sacrifice” as being interchangeable, at least as far as the test question goes. I am reminded of one of the Mass’ Memorial Acclamations: “When we eat this bread and drink this cup, we proclaim your death, Lord Jesus, until you come in glory.” The answer the student provided in the test is consistent with the theology expressed in this acclamation.

Having said that, I think that “sacrifice” is a better expression than “death” in terms of nuance. More specifically, at the Mass, we proclaim the death of Christ, and participate in it, but our concept of celebrating the Mass encompasses not only the sacrifice itself (which was a gift of love Christ gave to us), but also the life-giving aspects of his sacrifice, along with his resurrection and glorification (as TimothyH pointed out, there is a unity going on between the passion, death and resurrection of Christ).

But the test question simply asks what the sacrament of the Mass is (as opposed to all that is specifically being celebrated), so I think any answer which addresses the sacrifice/death of Christ at Calvary can be counted as correct.
 
I would stress the concept of sacrifice over death on the cross. The two thieves died on the cross too like a lot of other people before and after them, but the main difference is that they did not do it as a sacrifice for the atonement of our sins. The concept that really matters is the one of holocaust of the perfect victim.
 
Last week one of my adult students provided an answer to the following question, a fill-in-the-blank query from the The New St. Joseph Baltimore Catechism No. 2 (for specifics, Lesson 27, page 176, fill in the blank item #1).

To the following:
The Mass is the sacrament of Christ’s_________. The answer is sacrifice.
Based on the explanation at page 169: “The Mass is the sacrament, or sign, of Christ’s sacrifice.”
She countered with Christ’s death on the cross.

I admit I was temporarily stumped and I promised her I would come back this week with an explanation. After rereading the material, would it be safe to say, yes at the Mass we celebrate his death on the cross, the ultimate and life-giving sacrifice that won for us eternal life.

Your IMs and feedback appreciated,
Joe
The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is an unbloody sacrifice. It is also referred to as the
**re-presentation of Christ’s salvific death in an unbloody manner. **

May I respectfully suggest buying a paperback edition of the* Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition*.
 
After rereading the material, would it be safe to say, yes at the Mass we celebrate his death on the cross, the ultimate and life-giving sacrifice that won for us eternal life.
Here are some extended thoughts:
I find it very interesting that the Catechism refers to it as Christ’s sacrifice. Reasoning being, is that although it can be interpreted as His Crucifixion, it can also lend interpretation to an additional sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

Since I am referring to a sacrifice which has not yet been validated by the Church, I will provide a question which can help you ponder the additional sacrifice.
Was the first material/physical thing to come into existence living (perhaps cell-like) or non-living (perhaps atom-like)?
If you would like to hear the concept, please ask, and I will gladly share.

Thank you very much for your time and consideration.
 
Here are some extended thoughts:
I find it very interesting that the Catechism refers to it as Christ’s sacrifice. Reasoning being, is that although it can be interpreted as His Crucifixion, it can also lend interpretation to an additional sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

Since I am referring to a sacrifice which has not yet been validated by the Church, I will provide a question which can help you ponder the additional sacrifice.
Was the first material/physical thing to come into existence living (perhaps cell-like) or non-living (perhaps atom-like)?
If you would like to hear the concept, please ask, and I will gladly share.

Thank you very much for your time and consideration.
I don’t understand this post and question.

Christ’s death on the cross was a sacrifice. There is no other sacrifice that needs to be ratified by the Church. There is no other sacrifice which can be ratified by the Church.

***But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that have come to be, passing through the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made by hands, that is, not belonging to this creation, he entered once for all *into the sanctuary, not with the blood of goats and calves but with his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption. (Hebrews 9:9-11)

Christ is God, and his sacrifice is once for all, and it obtains for us redemption eternally. There is nothing else.

-Tim-
 
Here are some extended thoughts:
I find it very interesting that the Catechism refers to it as Christ’s sacrifice. Reasoning being, is that although it can be interpreted as His Crucifixion, it can also lend interpretation to an additional sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

Since I am referring to a sacrifice which has not yet been validated by the Church, I will provide a question which can help you ponder the additional sacrifice.
Was the first material/physical thing to come into existence living (perhaps cell-like) or non-living (perhaps atom-like)?
If you would like to hear the concept, please ask, and I will gladly share.

Thank you very much for your time and consideration.
What are you talking about? Jesus because of his human nature was well defined in space and time. The only source of revelation about his sacrifice are the Gospels and Sacred Tradition. It has been made it clear to us that there will be no further public revelation until the second coming. What reason do you have to say that there is a sacrifice that has not yet been validated by the Church. That goes against the dogmas promulgated by the Church. :confused:
 
Here are some extended thoughts…
Generally speaking, extended thoughts may indeed be interesting, but they can also lead to threads going off-topic. The OP was asking how well the student’s answer corresponded to what was presented by the textbook (the Baltimore Catechism). If you feel that what the Catechism teaches can be extended to an additional but not yet validated sacrifice then, in my opinion, that seems to being going a bit off course. In light of this, you may want to consider starting an new thread for such a discussion. You will probably also get wider participation and feedback as well. I’m offering this suggestion simply in the spirit of kindly advice (in light of forum policy).
 
The OP was asking how well the student’s answer corresponded to what was presented by the textbook (the Baltimore Catechism).
…
I’m offering this suggestion simply in the spirit of kindly advice (in light of forum policy).
Thank you very much for your kind recommendation. I apologize for not being clear enough in my original reply as to how this is connected. Perhaps I should have stated:
Although Christ’s death on the cross is definitely a sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, through the graceful statement of Sacrifice, the Catechism does not limit itself to only Christ’s death on the cross. Therefore, there is reason to conclude that “The Mass is the Sacrament of Christ’s death on the cross” is incomplete.
I don’t understand this post and question.

Christ’s death on the cross was a sacrifice. There is no other sacrifice that needs to be ratified by the Church. There is no other sacrifice which can be ratified by the Church.

Christ is God…
I apologize for my poor initial presentation of the concepts. Please consider the following: Jesus Christ is God. God is the Holy Trinity. The Holy Trinity is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Each person of the Trinity has made distinct sacrifices from/within one another. Every sacrifice by each person is celebrated in the Mass.
What reason do you have to say that there is a sacrifice that has not yet been validated by the Church.
By reasoning the solution to the following problem:
Given ALL the following:
-You, as a thinking, feeling, acting, living being exist in solitude (Hint: It is best to think of yourself existing as a single-celled being, similar to how you first came to be).
-There is nothing else in existence.
-The only method to create something, living or non-living, is to first think of it.
-You want to experience limitless happiness without ever losing peace.
How do you make that happen? I recommend first thinking about what are the requirements and trying to figure out how to make those happen individually. For example, one requirement: To experience a limitless happiness, one cannot know everything. Since in your initial existence you have to know everything, you will have to think of a way of sacrificing all knowledge.
It is this sacrifice of all-knowledge, along with His Crucifixion, as well as other sacrifices which are revealed when solving the problem further, that I am referring to when Celebrating the Sacrament of Christ’s Sacrifice.

Thank you all very much for the excellent food for thought.

Thoughts?
 
HI,:heaven:
I find nothing surprising by the student’s answer at all. I always thought of the Mass as re-presenting, (in an unbloody manner) Christ’s sacrifice on the Cross. His Sacrifice was followed by His Resurrection, and through belief in Him and His Holy Church, (participating in His Sacraments, respecting Church teachings and tradition,) by loving acts of compassion for the poor and distressed, we hope for our resurrection. Perhaps it was the idea of the Mass as a celebration that concerned you? I wasn’t sure. But here is a link which helps me greatly: newadvent.org/cathen/09790b.htm
Blessings!
Kathryn Ann
 
I guess it is a question of what the test is about. If You wanted to just check, if the students know, what is written in this “New St. Joseph Baltimore Catechism”, I would not regard it as identical. Jesus sacrifice happened on the cross, still neither a sacrifice is a death on the cross nor a death on a cross a sacrifice. So it makes a difference what is written there.

If on the other hand You talked about it and want to check what the students still know from it, then we would have to know what You talked about. For sure it is not wrong that Jesus’ death on the cross is the “story” of the sacrament we celebrate.

This sacrament is a very complex sign.
What we celebrate is not the death of Jesus but him giving himself for us - and more: His remaining presence among us, which is represented in bread and wine as his body and blood - a sign of what the church is. It is Jesus in the midst of his disciples giving himself in his own live. The core of what the church is. That is why it is the sacrament of the church.

So if You did not talk about all these complex things You cannot expect students to know all of it. You can only expect from them, what You taught them. If You did not make clear the difference between saying “sacrifice” and “Jesus dying on the cross” and Your students are socialized in a Christian setting, I would expect them to say something like that. And accept it in a test, even if it is not exactly right. They will from their background regard it as the same. As many here feel, too.

Ilka
 
Last week one of my adult students provided an answer to the following question, a fill-in-the-blank query from the The New St. Joseph Baltimore Catechism No. 2 (for specifics, Lesson 27, page 176, fill in the blank item #1).

To the following:
The Mass is the sacrament of Christ’s_________. The answer is sacrifice.
Based on the explanation at page 169: “The Mass is the sacrament, or sign, of Christ’s sacrifice.”
She countered with Christ’s death on the cross.

I admit I was temporarily stumped and I promised her I would come back this week with an explanation. After rereading the material, would it be safe to say, yes at the Mass we celebrate his death on the cross, the ultimate and life-giving sacrifice that won for us eternal life.

Your IMs and feedback appreciated,
Joe
You student is correct. The Sacrifice of the Mass is where The Last Supper and the Crucifixion are one. Scott Hahn has a paper entitled “The Four Cups”. This would be good for this subject.
 
Last week one of my adult students provided an answer to the following question, a fill-in-the-blank query from the The New St. Joseph Baltimore Catechism No. 2 (for specifics, Lesson 27, page 176, fill in the blank item #1).

To the following:
The Mass is the sacrament of Christ’s_________. The answer is sacrifice.
Based on the explanation at page 169: “The Mass is the sacrament, or sign, of Christ’s sacrifice.”
She countered with Christ’s death on the cross.

I admit I was temporarily stumped and I promised her I would come back this week with an explanation. After rereading the material, would it be safe to say, yes at the Mass we celebrate his death on the cross, the ultimate and life-giving sacrifice that won for us eternal life.

Your IMs and feedback appreciated,
Joe
That’s easy. You just have to look in the Bible:

[BIBLEDRB]1 Cor 5:7[/BIBLEDRB]

You see, the death on the cross was ***the ***passover sacrifice (the OT sacrifices were just shadows of the reality that was to come:)

[BIBLEDRB]Heb 9:9[/BIBLEDRB]

This “sacrifice” is the culmination of Jesus’ role as High Priest:

[BIBLEDRB]Heb 5:5-10[/BIBLEDRB]

The basic nature of a priest (generically: not saying Christian, Jewish, or whatever) is to offer sacrifice to their gods (I do not capitalize this because I am again speaking generically: whether we are talking about Jewish priests offering bloody sacrifice to God; Catholic priests offering the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, or aztec priests sacrificing virgins to their gods – priests offer sacrifice)

If you study the 9th Chapter of Hebrews in totality, this sacrificial role becomes very, very apparent. A quick highlight (but do take the time to study the entire chapter with your student):

[BIBLEDRB]Heb 9:11-14[/BIBLEDRB]

The thing is that Hebrews really unlocks the relationship between the Old Testament rituals and the reality of Christ’s work:

[BIBLEDRB]Heb 9:23[/BIBLEDRB]

For example, compare this passage from the OT:

[BIBLEDRB]Lev 16:7-10[/BIBLEDRB]

to the events in the passion. Pilate bringing Jesus Barabbas and Jesus, son of God, to the people. A choice was made. And Christ was led out into “the wilderness” (Calvary was outside of the city gates in those days). The sins of the people were piled on Christ just as the sins of the people were piled on the scapegoat in the Leviticus passage, above

(BTW, yes, his name was Jesus Barabbas)

[BIBLEDRB]Matt 27:16[/BIBLEDRB]

Although the English doesn’t say it, the Greek (in many of the critical texts) most certainly does:

εἶχον δὲ τότε δέσμιον ἐπίσημον λεγόμενον Ἰησοῦν Βαραββᾶν

This understanding makes the scapegoat analogy very, very clear…
 
Last week one of my adult students provided an answer to the following question, a fill-in-the-blank query from the The New St. Joseph Baltimore Catechism No. 2 (for specifics, Lesson 27, page 176, fill in the blank item #1).

To the following:
The Mass is the sacrament of Christ’s_________. The answer is sacrifice.
Based on the explanation at page 169: “The Mass is the sacrament, or sign, of Christ’s sacrifice.”
She countered with Christ’s death on the cross.

I admit I was temporarily stumped and I promised her I would come back this week with an explanation. After rereading the material, would it be safe to say, yes at the Mass we celebrate his death on the cross, the ultimate and life-giving sacrifice that won for us eternal life.

Your IMs and feedback appreciated,
Joe
By the way,

In order to fully appreciate the sacrificial nature of the Mass, though, you need to carefully, and in depth, study the Roman Canon (a/k/a the Eucharistic Prayer 1 in the Novus Ordo). The verses I gave you in the previous post show that the death on the cross was a priestly sacrifice. The Roman Canon (read it in light of Rev 5) show that the Mass is a re-presentation of that priestly sacrifice.

If you want some easy-to-access reference, I would recommend that you have your student read Scott Hahn’s The Lamb’s Supper. While it’s not written with the academic rigor of other books, such as Fortescue’s 1912 classic, The Mass: A Study of the Roman Liturgy,

Dogmatically, you should also refer to the 22nd Session of the Council of Trent:

CHAPTER I.
On the institution of the most holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Forasmuch as, under the former Testament, according to the testimony of the Apostle Paul, there was no perfection, because of the weakness of the Levitical priesthood; there was need, God, the Father of mercies, so ordaining, that another priest should rise, according to the order of Melchisedech, our Lord Jesus Christ, who might consummate, and lead to what is perfect, as many as were to be sanctified. He, therefore, our God and Lord, though He was about to offer Himself once on the altar of the cross unto God the Father, by means of his death, there to operate an eternal redemption; nevertheless, because that His priesthood was not to be extinguished by His death, in the last supper, on the night in which He was betrayed,–that He might leave, to His own beloved Spouse the Church, a visible sacrifice, such as the nature of man requires, whereby that bloody sacrifice, once to be accomplished on the cross, might be represented, and the memory thereof remain even unto the end of the world, and its salutary virtue be applied to the remission of those sins which we daily commit,–declaring Himself constituted a priest for ever, according to the order of Melchisedech, He offered up to God the Father His own body and blood under the species of bread and wine; and, under the symbols of those same things, He delivered (His own body and blood) to be received by His apostles, whom He then constituted priests of the New Testament; and by those words, Do this in commemoration of me, He commanded them and their successors in the priesthood, to offer (them); even as the Catholic Church has always understood and taught. For, having celebrated the ancient Passover, which the multitude of the children of Israel immolated in memory of their going out of Egypt, He instituted the new Passover, (to wit) Himself to be immolated, under visible signs, by the Church through (the ministry of) priests, in memory of His own passage from this world unto the Father, when by the effusion of His own blood He redeemed us, and delivered us from the power of darkness, and translated us into his kingdom. And this is indeed that clean oblation, which cannot be defiled by any unworthiness, or malice of those that offer (it); which the Lord foretold by Malachias was to be offered in every place, clean to his name, which was to be great amongst the Gentiles; and which the apostle Paul, writing to the Corinthians, has not obscurely indicated, when he says, that they who are defiled by the participation of the table of devils, cannot be partakers of the table of the Lord; by the table, meaning in both places the altar. This, in fine, is that oblation which was prefigured by various types of sacrifices, during the period of nature, and of the law; in as much as it comprises all the good things signified by those sacrifices, as being the consummation and perfection of them all.

Also see Canon I of that Holy Council:

CANON I.–If any one saith, that in the mass a true and proper sacriflce is not offered to God; or, that to be offered is nothing else but that Christ is given us to eat; let him be anathema.
 
I wanted to share one more simple method of recognizing the Mass is not limited to honoring Christ’s death on the cross.

The Mass is the Celebration of the Liturgy and the Eucharist. In order for the Liturgy to be kept alive and spread throughout the world, many Saints, Martyrs, priests, and religious life had to make great sacrifices. When these followers of Christ made these life sacrifices, they were acting in oneness with the Holy Spirit. Therefore, all of these acts are additional sacrifices of Christ, in which we honor during the Mass.

Thoughts?
 
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