attn anyone who doesnt believe in praying to saints, angels or mary

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osddso

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my dads marrying a born again.

she says she doesnt pray to angels, saints, the Holy Mother Mary. she doesnt pray to them or go to confession because she doesnt need a mediator when speaking to God.

she gave me this example that her pastor gave her:**
“when i am sick, i want to speak to the doctor not the receptionist”**

im sure you all know catholics dont worship saints, angels or Mary. they pray to them because a saint lived the life and did every thing God requested of them, sin-free. so when i pray, God knows i have sinned, so my prayer to him isnt as powerful as one like saint who has proven himself worth of spending eternity in heaven. my prayers arent as powerful as an angel who like humans have free-will. they, like saints, are sin-free. and even during the rebellion they remained sin-free and worthy in Gods eyes. Mary doesnt need an explanation.

so when i pray to God, it may not be that powerful. but when i pray to a saint, to pray for me, to pray that God will have mercy on me, he will listen if a saint or angel or Mary prays for me.

so my answer to her is this…AND DONT SAY “YOU CANT SAY THAT ITS NOT THE SAME THING”…BECAUSE IT IS 😃

my dads fiance: “when i am sick i want to see the doctor, not the receptionist”

me: have you ever called the doctor but his book was full, but the receptionist took pity on your situation and saw you were truly in need of the doctor and fit you in anyway- same idea 😃
 
osddso said:
me: have you ever called the doctor but his book was full, but the receptionist took pity on your situation and saw you were truly in need of the doctor and fit you in anyway- same idea 😃
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I like it
 
osddso said:
she says she doesnt pray to angels, saints, the Holy Mother Mary. she doesnt pray to them or go to confession because she doesnt need a mediator when speaking to God.
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I do like your response - but I would also add for her:

"We dont pray to angels, saint, the Holy Mother Mary we pray through them.
 
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

That’s how I thought it worked. When a person die, it simply means they are sleep. Not in Heaven. The Bible teaches us this.
 
osddso said:
my dads marrying a born again.

she says she doesnt pray to angels, saints, the Holy Mother Mary. she doesnt pray to them or go to confession because she doesnt need a mediator when speaking to God.

she gave me this example that her pastor gave her:**
“when i am sick, i want to speak to the doctor not the receptionist”**

im sure you all know catholics dont worship saints, angels or Mary. they pray to them because a saint lived the life and did every thing God requested of them, sin-free. so when i pray, God knows i have sinned, so my prayer to him isnt as powerful as one like saint who has proven himself worth of spending eternity in heaven. my prayers arent as powerful as an angel who like humans have free-will. they, like saints, are sin-free. and even during the rebellion they remained sin-free and worthy in Gods eyes. Mary doesnt need an explanation.

so when i pray to God, it may not be that powerful. but when i pray to a saint, to pray for me, to pray that God will have mercy on me, he will listen if a saint or angel or Mary prays for me.

so my answer to her is this…AND DONT SAY “YOU CANT SAY THAT ITS NOT THE SAME THING”…BECAUSE IT IS 😃

my dads fiance: “when i am sick i want to see the doctor, not the receptionist”

me: have you ever called the doctor but his book was full, but the receptionist took pity on your situation and saw you were truly in need of the doctor and fit you in anyway- same idea 😃
Click to expand...
Hi osddso if I could say the bible tells us 1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,.

There is no reference in the bible that we should pray through any other heavenly persons other than the Lord Himself.
 
Dear Jericho,
Why do christians have others pray for them? (prayer trees, etc)…same thing…
 
jericho777 said:
Hi osddso if I could say the bible tells us 1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus
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That’s what it says, alright. So, what does it mean? Let’s look at additional verses to gain a fuller understanding of the role of Jesus as mediator.

Hebrews 7:24-25
because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

Here we see that Jesus “always lives to intercede” for “those who come to God through him.” The role of the mediator and the intercessor are synonymous; a mediator lives to intercede for others.

All Christians are called to be mediators or intercessors for one another because we are all members of Christ’s body as we see from Paul’s letter to the Ephesians:

Ephesians 1:22-23
“And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

Paul referred to himself as a co-laborer with Christ when he wrote:

1 Corinthians 3:9
For we are God’s fellow workers.

Paul went further in his understanding of our responsibility as co-laborers with Christ when when he wrote:

Colossians 1:24
Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church.

Is anything lacking from the perfect sacrifice that Christ offered upon the Cross? Paul clearly indicates that more is to be done and that he makes up what is “still lacking” in his own flesh.

2 Corinthians 1:6
If we are afflicted, it is for your comfort and salvation

Additionally, we know that we are called to share in the priesthood of all believers (cf. 1 Peter 2:5-9), and a priest, by definition, is called to be a mediator between God and men. Each of us is called to this role and to be a mediator or mediatrix for others before God.

Therefore, if we are all called to this role of mediator and intercessor for one another, how much more can this be said of Mary who said, “Yes” to God and brought Christ into the world?

Speaking of this, the Catechism of the Catholic Church states:

[967](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/967.htm’)😉 By her complete adherence to the Father’s will, to his Son’s redemptive work, and to every prompting of the Holy Spirit, the Virgin Mary is the Church’s model of faith and charity. Thus she is a “preeminent and . . . wholly unique member of the Church”; indeed, she is the “exemplary realization” (typus) of the Church.

[968](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/968.htm’)😉 Her role in relation to the Church and to all humanity goes still further. “In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope, and burning charity in the Savior’s work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace.”
[969](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/969.htm’)😉 “This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation . . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.”
[970](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/970.htm’)😉 “Mary’s function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin’s salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it.” “No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source.”
 
osddso said:
my dads marrying a born again.

she says she doesnt pray to angels, saints, the Holy Mother Mary. she doesnt pray to them or go to confession because she doesnt need a mediator when speaking to God.

she gave me this example that her pastor gave her:**
“when i am sick, i want to speak to the doctor not the receptionist”**

im sure you all know catholics dont worship saints, angels or Mary. they pray to them because a saint lived the life and did every thing God requested of them, sin-free. so when i pray, God knows i have sinned, so my prayer to him isnt as powerful as one like saint who has proven himself worth of spending eternity in heaven. my prayers arent as powerful as an angel who like humans have free-will. they, like saints, are sin-free. and even during the rebellion they remained sin-free and worthy in Gods eyes. Mary doesnt need an explanation.

so when i pray to God, it may not be that powerful. but when i pray to a saint, to pray for me, to pray that God will have mercy on me, he will listen if a saint or angel or Mary prays for me.

so my answer to her is this…AND DONT SAY “YOU CANT SAY THAT ITS NOT THE SAME THING”…BECAUSE IT IS 😃

my dads fiance: “when i am sick i want to see the doctor, not the receptionist”

me: have you ever called the doctor but his book was full, but the receptionist took pity on your situation and saw you were truly in need of the doctor and fit you in anyway- same idea 😃
Click to expand...
that was a wonderful response
 
The key question is whether she would ever ask YOU to pray for her (or welcome your prayers on her behalf). We pray for others all the time. We ask others to pray for us. And if your prayers are welcome, how much more welcome would be the prayers of the saints in heaven?

The key difference in my experience is that Catholics have a more distinct idea of life after death and the communion of the saints. Non-catholic Christians don’t usually think of the dead as living and accessible and available to intercede for them. Once that’s understood, there’s no reason to exclude asking saints to pray for you just as you would ask a pastor or fellow parishioner to pray for you.
 
osddso said:
…she gave me this example that her pastor gave her:**
“when i am sick, i want to speak to the doctor not the receptionist”**

…

my dads fiance: “when i am sick i want to see the doctor, not the receptionist”

…😃
Click to expand...
But the fact is she does call the receptionist, and she checks in with the receptionist, and she waits on the receptionist to call her name. So does her pastor. They just preach different than they practice.
 
Randy_Carson said:
That’s what it says, alright. So, what does it mean? Let’s look at additional verses to gain a fuller understanding of the role of Jesus as mediator.

Hebrews 7:24-25
because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

Here we see that Jesus “always lives to intercede” for “those who come to God through him.” The role of the mediator and the intercessor are synonymous; a mediator lives to intercede for others.

All Christians are called to be mediators or intercessors for one another because we are all members of Christ’s body as we see from Paul’s letter to the Ephesians:

Ephesians 1:22-23
“And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

Paul referred to himself as a co-laborer with Christ when he wrote:

1 Corinthians 3:9
For we are God’s fellow workers.

Paul went further in his understanding of our responsibility as co-laborers with Christ when when he wrote:

Colossians 1:24
Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church.

Is anything lacking from the perfect sacrifice that Christ offered upon the Cross? Paul clearly indicates that more is to be done and that he makes up what is “still lacking” in his own flesh.

2 Corinthians 1:6
If we are afflicted, it is for your comfort and salvation

Additionally, we know that we are called to share in the priesthood of all believers (cf. 1 Peter 2:5-9), and a priest, by definition, is called to be a mediator between God and men. Each of us is called to this role and to be a mediator or mediatrix for others before God.

Therefore, if we are all called to this role of mediator and intercessor for one another, how much more can this be said of Mary who said, “Yes” to God and brought Christ into the world?

Speaking of this, the Catechism of the Catholic Church states:

[967](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/967.htm’)😉 By her complete adherence to the Father’s will, to his Son’s redemptive work, and to every prompting of the Holy Spirit, the Virgin Mary is the Church’s model of faith and charity. Thus she is a “preeminent and . . . wholly unique member of the Church”; indeed, she is the “exemplary realization” (typus) of the Church.

[968](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/968.htm’)😉 Her role in relation to the Church and to all humanity goes still further. “In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope, and burning charity in the Savior’s work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace.”
[969](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/969.htm’)😉 “This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation . . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.”
[970](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/970.htm’)😉 “Mary’s function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin’s salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it.” “No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source.”
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You were correct until you started to add things that contradict the bible.
 
I take issue with the notion that the saints are sin-free any more than you are. Christ died for you, You are forgiven and sin-free. the same Jesus who was without a doubt sin free and knows the Father better than anyone taught the disciples to pray directly to the Father. I will follow the teaching of the one who sacrificed Himself for me. I pray that you will someday walk in His grace and call Him Abba Father. He loves you!
 
St Paul says there is one mediator but a few verses beforehand he tells us to intercede. - 1 Timothy 2:1

St James tells us to pray for on another and that the prayer of a just person avails much. How much more just the people in heaven. - James 5:16

Jesus says that God is not a God of the dead but of the living - so the saints in heaven are alive c.f. Matthew 22:32, Mark 12:26-27, Luke 20:38

They (and the angels) are not shut off from us c.f Matthew 17:3, Matthew 18:10, Matthew 27:52-53

They can hear our prayers and intercede for us for us c.f. Revelation 8:3-4

“Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.” - Hebrews 12:1
 
MyRdmrLvs said:
I take issue with the notion that the saints are sin-free any more than you are. Christ died for you, You are forgiven and sin-free. the same Jesus who was without a doubt sin free and knows the Father better than anyone **taught the disciples to pray directly to the Father. ** I will follow the teaching of the one who sacrificed Himself for me. I pray that you will someday walk in His grace and call Him Abba Father. He loves you!
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Do/can people in heaven sin there?
Can a person on earth who believes in Christ sin?

What about praying directly to Jesus?
Jesus said pray Our Father…
 
The bible defines saints as all those who have faith in Christ. Just those who put their faith and trust in the Savior.
 
jericho777 said:
Hi osddso if I could say the bible tells us 1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,.

There is no reference in the bible that we should pray through any other heavenly persons other than the Lord Himself.
Click to expand...
i agree. the catholic church doesnt make people pray to the saints and angels. when you pray privately, you pray to whoever you want.
 
jericho777 said:
The bible defines saints as all those who have faith in Christ. Just those who put their faith and trust in the Savior.
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a saint is someone who lived sin free and dedicated their life to the Lord.

satan has faith in God, he belives in him. he puts his confidence in him, because satan knows God can and will one day destroy him…is he going to heaven?
 
osddso said:
a saint is someone who lived sin free and dedicated their life to the Lord.

satan has faith in God, he belives in him. he puts his confidence in him, because satan knows God can and will one day destroy him…is he going to heaven?
Click to expand...
A saint is defined as A person who has died and gone to heaven.
 
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