Attraction and lust

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Of course this all does not mean that one should just go about “looking at girls” all day or something…there can be real danger…temptation…near occasions and of course sin…

one needs to use a reasonable care…avoiding both sides of the valley…knowing oneself…and the reality of concupscience …and of course sin…and also avoiding excessive concern and scruples…
 
Shin said:
Sheen for all that he’s talked a lot of good is not a saint.

And you can’t dance on the edge of the cliff and not fall.
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That is true that Sheen is not a saint, but he isn’t exactly a heretic either. He’s in the process of canonization. And if he does become a saint, will you change your opinion on looking at beautiful girls?

And what may be the edge of a cliff for one may be a plateau for another. I don’t really consider admiring beauty an edge of a cliff because it never leads me to lust. And how are we supposed to meet a spouse while staring at the ground? “you have the most beautiful voice I’ve ever heard…lets get married!”
 
This area is the biggest problem for me and my scruples.

I pray every day for rectitude of intention. The trouble is when there is movement down below It is impossible and i mean impossible for me to judge consent. I have read countles works on temptation and am little the wiser. I try and move on but there is a nagging doubt that one or two seconds of consent have passed

Also sometimes I get movement down below at times that really surprise and disturb me. I end up thinking i am a monster and then the temptation to despair comes firmly into view. I seriously could be winning countless battles against temptation or going to hell on a technicality and I have no idea.

I humbly implore all readers prayers…
 
John_of_Woking said:
This area is the biggest problem for me and my scruples.

I pray every day for rectitude of intention. The trouble is when there is movement down below It is impossible and i mean impossible for me to judge consent. I have read countles works on temptation and am little the wiser. I try and move on but there is a nagging doubt that one or two seconds of consent have passed

Also sometimes I get movement down below at times that really surprise and disturb me. I end up thinking i am a monster and then the temptation to despair comes firmly into view. I seriously could be winning countless battles against temptation or going to hell on a technicality and I have no idea.

I humbly implore all readers prayers…
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Need to talk with your confessor :)…for what you are experiencing can be nothing more than some involuntary little movement which it is best to ignore…

(little movements (tingling as the OP noted)…well …just happen at times…such are very different from seeking to arouse oneself…or consenting to sexual pleasure…one just accepts that such happened…and try to ignore it and move on…but again on your specifics your confessor can help…)

also do not confuse “temptation” with consent…

All sorts to things can happen to one uninvited…thoughts…etc but this does not mean one has consented …partially or fully…

and as S. Catherine reminds us we have been given the dagger of free will…not even the devil can make us consent…

scruples should passed by like a barking dog…or a hissing goose…one does not stop and argue with a hissing goose does one?
 
Bookcat said:
Need to talk with your confessor :)…for what you are experiencing can be nothing more than some involuntary little movement which it is best to ignore…

(little movements (tingling as the OP noted)…well …just happen at times…such are very different from seeking to arouse oneself…or consenting to sexual pleasure…one just accepts that such happened…and try to ignore it and move on…but again on your specifics your confessor can help…)

also do not confuse “temptation” with consent…

All sorts to things can happen to one uninvited…thoughts…etc but this does not mean one has consented …partially or fully…

scruples should passed by like a barking dog…or a hissing goose…one does not stop and argue with a hissing goose does one?
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Thanks I am going to try and go cold turkey and tell Jesus to take my fears with him and nail them on the cross.

I will try not talk to back amidst doubt…examinations of conscience are holy and important in the spirtiual life but sometimes they can confuse a tender conscience - this seems to be happening to me.
 
John_of_Woking said:
Thanks I am going to try and go cold turkey and tell Jesus to take my fears with him and nail them on the cross.

I will try not talk to back amidst doubt…examinations of conscience are holy and important in the spirtiual life but sometimes they can confuse a tender conscience - this seems to be happening to me.
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A regular confessor is of great importance for one with scruples…

a tender conscience is not the same as one with scruples…though one can have an otherwise tender conscience and still have scruples or a tendency towards them…
 
Bookcat said:
A regular confessor is of great importance for one with scruples…

a tender conscience is not the same as one with scruples…though one can have an otherwise tender conscience and still have scruples or a tendency towards them…
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Yep - regrettably I am firmly in the neurotic scruples camp and the spiral is quite deep. On the other side of the coin I feel God is close to me behind all the fear and I thank him for remaining patient :).

My PP is a good man and I go to confession quite regularly (I think once a week is good). He probably knows I have scruples but maybe I’ll spell it out.

A bit of an aside…and…This is a long shot …Are there any catholic doctors (who subsribe to the church’s teaching on morals) on the NHS in the UK? Most doctors I have met have promulgated nonsense re: masturbation etc and won’t respect my views (inspired by Humanae Vitae). I remember one counsellor ten years ago (before I married) even got angry that I was withholding sex from my then non-christian g/friend and said it was unfair on her…
 
some things to add to this on the topic of admiring the beauty of women…
  • the great prophet Jacob had a great admiration for Rachel’s physical beauty in the bible, so much, that he worked for 7 years to get her to be his wife after noticing her.
  • Sirach 26:17-18 on a good wife
    “Like the light which shines above the holy lampstand, are her beauty of face and graceful figure. Golden columns on silver bases are her shapely limbs and steady feet.”
  • St. Teresa seemed to marvel at Jesus’ handsomeness in her ecstasies with the way she talked about it…at least that is the vibe I get when I read about them
  • the story of St. Pelagia. (of course this seems to be a tall tale, but the tale is always told and admired by pius people people)…she got all dressed up because she was an actress/dancer and she passed by St. Nonnus and other bishops. Noticing her scantly clad clothing she was wearing, the other bishops looked away for fear of lusting. Well St. Nonnun kept looking at her and was amazed by her beauty. He asked the other bishops, “Did not the sight of her great beauty delight you?”
  • in one of St. Bridget’s revelations. Jesus speaks highly of the Virgin Mary’s physical and spiritual beauty.
  • there were married saints. surely one of those couples became sexually attracted to one another as a cause of them wanting to get married.
 
kristie_m said:
Imagine it’s lunchtime and you’re passing by McDonalds. You catch a whiff of burgers and fries and your stomach begins to growl. Now, you know McDonalds food isn’t healthy, so you try to move your thoughts in another direction.

Or…same scenario, and you begin to ponder how much you’re REALLY craving those fries, and maybe a milkshake, and pretty soon your thoughts are consumed by this desire to turn aound and hit the drive thru.

This is the difference between attraction and lust. Your mind and body will respond to a particular stimulus…Whether that be french fries or a beautiful girl. It is what your MIND does once you acknowledge that initial attraction, that determines whether or not you allow that attraction to become the sin of lust.

Hope that helps.
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I thought catholics confessed to sins in “word, thought, and deed”
 
StrawberryJam said:
I thought catholics confessed to sins in “word, thought, and deed”
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Not all thoughts are controlled. Some just happen. However passions (or feelings) are not under control sometimes, and so if the tingly feeling “down there” is not sought but happens, then it is not lust, and not a sin.
 
I know sometimes my eyes will be drawn like a magnet to a beautiful woman and her figure. This all happens automatically before I have to time to deliberate and avert my eyes. I think that’s the key right there. Your not responsible for the first reaction but you are responsible for the second. Attraction is natural to the human person. Attraction becomes lust when you choose to encourage or dwell on that attraction.
 
Mark_Roberto said:
I know sometimes my eyes will be drawn like a magnet to a beautiful woman and her figure. This all happens automatically before I have to time to deliberate and avert my eyes. I think that’s the key right there. Your not responsible for the first reaction but you are responsible for the second. Attraction is natural to the human person. Attraction becomes lust when you choose to encourage or dwell on that attraction.
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Attraction becomes lust when for example you choose to encourage or dwell on that attraction…in a lustful way
 
Ben_Sinner said:
Hi. I have a hard time knowing if some of the feelings I get are the result of natural attraction or the result of lust. For example, sometimes when I talk to a beautiful girl, it feels like my heart is pumping fast and I’ll start to get a tingly feeling down in “that area”, but I’m not trying to “get off” or fantasize bout having sex with the girl or anything. Is that lust what I just experienced?
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Ben purposely name ten good things about the young lady. If the list contains body parts it is likely lust. If the list are good qualities about her personhood then you are on the right track.
 
Big_Dummy said:
Ben purposely name ten good things about the young lady. If the list contains body parts it is likely lust. If the list are good qualities about her personhood then you are on the right track.
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Let see…eyes, ears, hands… I jest here…but seriously…

…while a certain focus on the sexual attributes of the body…certainly can be lustful…the mere noticing that a person has a well proportioned body…does not = lust …

jimmyakin.org/2009/01/appreciating-beauty-vs-concupiscence.html

of course a reasonable custody of the eyes can be called for 🙂 and modesty guides how we see others…
 
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