Augustine and sin

[high1]

Hello

Can I ask a question please concerning Augustine?

In his writings on ‘original sin’ (which is never mentioned in the Bible), why does Augustine consider than man is a ‘mass of sin’ (even those baptised), when Jesus came precisely to forgive man of those sins?

Thanks.

High1

 

[JohnDamian]

Hello

Can I ask a question please concerning Augustine?

In his writings on ‘original sin’ (which is never mentioned in the Bible), why does Augustine consider than man is a ‘mass of sin’ (even those baptised), when Jesus came precisely to forgive man of those sins?

Thanks.

High1

Because even baptism does not wipe away Suffering or Concupiscence. This is clear from our everyday experiences.

This is why we have the Sacrament of Pennance (or confession) where the Priest; in the person of Christ; absolves us from our failures to follow him and reunites us into the grace and family of Christ.

This is why we are told in James 5.16 to" confess our sins to one another." Clearly; man is a mass of sin; which even after baptism - persists - and we need to seek forgiveness from one another and from God.

 

[high1]

Hello John

Many thanks for your reply.

Does that mean, then, that Augustine dismisses Jesus’ sacrifice?

Regards

High1

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Here is some information from the Catechism about the graces we receive from Baptism

VII. THE GRACE OF BAPTISM

1262 The different effects of Baptism are signified by the perceptible elements of the sacramental rite. Immersion in water symbolizes not only death and purification, but also regeneration and renewal. Thus the two principal effects are purification from sins and new birth in the Holy Spirit.65

For the forgiveness of sins . . .

1263 By Baptism all sins are forgiven, original sin and all personal sins, as well as all punishment for sin.66 In those who have been reborn nothing remains that would impede their entry into the Kingdom of God, neither Adam’s sin, nor personal sin, nor the consequences of sin, the gravest of which is separation from God.

1264 Yet certain temporal consequences of sin remain in the baptized, such as suffering, illness, death, and such frailties inherent in life as weaknesses of character, and so on, as well as an inclination to sin that Tradition calls concupiscence, or metaphorically, “the tinder for sin” (fomes peccati); since concupiscence "is left for us to wrestle with, it cannot harm those who do not consent but manfully resist it by the grace of Jesus Christ."67 Indeed, "an athlete is not crowned unless he competes according to the rules."68

“A new creature”

1265 Baptism not only purifies from all sins, but also makes the neophyte “a new creature,” an adopted son of God, who has become a "partaker of the divine nature,"69 member of Christ and co-heir with him,70 and a temple of the Holy Spirit.71

1266 The Most Holy Trinity gives the baptized sanctifying grace, the grace of justification:

• enabling them to believe in God, to hope in him, and to love him through the theological virtues;
• giving them the power to live and act under the prompting of the Holy Spirit through the gifts of the Holy Spirit;
• allowing them to grow in goodness through the moral virtues.
  Thus the whole organism of the Christian’s supernatural life has its roots in Baptism.

#1264 talks about how we are still inclined to sin even after our baptism.

I should point out that not everything Augustine said is accepted by the Church. The catechism, for example, doesn’t say that mankind is a “mass of sin”.

 

[JohnDamian]

Hello John

Many thanks for your reply.

Does that mean, then, that Augustine dismisses Jesus’ sacrifice?

Regards

High1

Augustine believes in Jesus sacrafice; listen to what St paul says in Romans Chapter 6:3-4;

*Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. *

When we are baptised our sins are washed away; and we are brought into the newness of life with Christ; however even this new life still leaves us with suffering and an inclination to sin. Even those who knew Christ still had an inclination to sin; Peter denied Christ three times; Thomas doubted the ressurection and Judas betrayed him.

Even those in new life with Christ are still human; they can still fall and still have an inclination to sin. Augustine new this; he knew that even though Christs sacrifice allows us to be baptised into his death as St Paul teaches; it is not enough to rid us of our inclination to sin; and this is why we have Confession - so that when we fall from the glory of our new lives we can re-establish the state of grace and the unity we have with God.

 

[bingbang]

Hello

Can I ask a question please concerning Augustine?

In his writings on ‘original sin’ (which is never mentioned in the Bible), why does Augustine consider than man is a ‘mass of sin’ (even those baptised), when Jesus came precisely to forgive man of those sins?

Thanks.

High1

Original sin is not mentioned by name in the Bible but the concept stems from Paul’s letter to the Romans (I believe its Romans…he also might touch on it in Galatians. I am not positive).

 

[Mark77]

Hello John

Many thanks for your reply.

Does that mean, then, that Augustine dismisses Jesus’ sacrifice?

Regards

High1

**high1,

welcome!

If you ask whether a Saint, who was a Bishop & is a Doctor of the Catholic Church, “dismisses Jesus’ sacrifice”, you apparently have not read any of St Augustine’s writings & probably are unfamiliar with the writings of the Early Church Fathers.

i recommend you start by reading his wonderful classic “The Confessions of St. Augustine” and you will see the depth of his faith.

books.google.com/books?id=DRMbsJAvsSIC&dq=Augustine%27s+Confessions+Ryan&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=yUwcCWDlvk&sig=G2GgoIxpoVdyHXKMuekFF5sNkXs&hl=en&ei=6qIrS6HNKo6csgOQ19HGBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Augustine%27s%20Confessions%20Ryan&f=false

God Bless you on your journey!
**
Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark