I’m suggesting that Aug was using very flowery language and when you read up to and through this sentence…Are you saying Augustine was trying to say Jesus was a virgin before, during, and after His birth???
?I was hoping someone with better French language skills would reply. I don’t know much French but, for what its worth, here’s my translation of the passage in question:
l’invisible Créateur de sa mère est né de son sein fécond sans aucune atteinte** à sa** pureté virginale; car elle est restée Vierge en concevant son Fils, Vierge en l’enfantant, Vierge en le portant, Vierge en le nourrissant de son sein, Vierge toujours. **…the invisible Creator of his mother was born from her fertile womb without any injury to her virginal purity; for she remained a Virgin in conceiving her Son, a Virgin in giving birth [to her Son] , a Virgin in carrying [her Son], a Virgin in feeding [her Son] at her breast, always a Virgin. **
My French dictionary says that vierge is French for a female virgin. It says that a male virgin in French would be puceau.
Christ, having been born of a virgin, is more pure than common man.I broke this sentence word by word… and it states “to his” and that changes the make up…
atteinte à sa pureté virginale.
damage the son purity virginal.
Precisely philthy…reading Augustins sermon in that light makes the firs 2 paragraphs really come to light.Christ, having been born of a virgin, is more pure than common man.
Come to light? That presupposes that you understand it whereas before it was not understood. What do you believe has come to light - what do you see it saying?Precisely philthy…reading Augustins sermon in that light makes the firs 2 paragraphs really come to light.
Augustine said a couple sentences later how can Jesus stop being God just because He was Incarnated if even His mother was granted the gift of remaining a virgin after the Incarnation.I’m suggesting that Aug was using very flowery language and when you read up to and through this sentence…
the invisible Creator of his mother was born from her womb without any fruitful injury to his virginal purity
**
it appears NOT to be about intercouse rather unblemished PURITY, which we know Christ is was and always will be…Try viewing it as if you were not a believer in the PV doctrine for a moment and it seems very clear.
ahhh yes her virginity, but that does not necessitate to moving through to PERPETUAL virginity, the text seems to be speaking toward maintainingthrough and after childbirth…It doesn’t necessarily speak of her complete life.Augustine said a couple sentences later how can Jesus stop being God just because He was Incarnated if even His mother was granted the gift of remaining a virgin after the Incarnation.
Augustine parallels Jesus retaining His divinity before and after the Incarnation, just as Mary retains her virginity before and after the Incarnation.
So in one sense you are right, Augustine is arguing for the purity of Christ–specifically His divinity. But he is doing so in part by confirming the virginal purity in His mother. I don’t think one can escape that thought in the text. Couple that with what Augustine also said (from the Aquinas quote in post #8), and I think what you see here is the theology behind Mary’s virginity…i.e. that it tells us something about Jesus. That is the nature of all Marian doctrine. Anybody who is able to grasp that is blessed indeed!
We’re gonna have to disagree my friend. He says she is “vergine per sempre”. Which is “virgin always.” It also fits the context of his point: Jesus doesn’t ever stop being God & Mary doesn’t ever stop being virginal. If Augustine didn’t have this theology I’d be happy to admit it because the doctrine does not rest on his words alone—but I cannot say Augustine was saying anything other than Mary was ever virgin.ahhh yes her virginity, but that does not necessitate to moving through to PERPETUAL virginity, the text seems to be speaking toward maintainingthrough and after childbirth…It doesn’t necessarily speak of her complete life.