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CaptainPrudeman
Guest
If God wanted them to die He’d blast them with lightning or something. But He doesn’t. If God doesn’t, we shouldn’t either.
Australian Archbishop guilty of concealing child sex abuse
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JanSobieskiIII
Guest
That’s asinine.
By that same logic, we don’t need prisons because if God really wanted bad folks locked up for harming others he’d just open the ground up under neath them and lock them in a cavern for awhile, but he doesn’t, so we shouldn’t either.
By that same logic, we don’t need prisons because if God really wanted bad folks locked up for harming others he’d just open the ground up under neath them and lock them in a cavern for awhile, but he doesn’t, so we shouldn’t either.
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CaptainPrudeman
Guest
Punishment for crime doesn’t equate to state-sanctioned murder. It’s penance for crimes, which Catholics do for their sins too. Just a different kind.
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JimG
Guest
Bishop or not, it seems to me that the evidence from either side of the case, prosecution or defense, would be unreliable as it pertains to something which happened 47 years ago. Memories fade, witnesses become less reliable. I had the same concern with cases in the U.S. which occurred decades ago and complainants with credibility problems were sought out by zealous prosecutors and lawyers.
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LilyM
Guest
Well, if the verdict is truly not backed up by the evidence presented in court, at which none of us were present, then the Bishop will doubtless appeal and win a reversal of the conviction.
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Edmundus1581
Guest
I have several personal associations with this, which I’ve been busy addressing elsewhere and have composed this response to several people. Apologies if I I’ve missed points already raised in the thread.
The headlines have misrepresented the case, as usual. Wilson was not a Bishop at the time and didn’t “cover up” anything. His crime (accepting the conviction) was to not follow up on several reports of indecent behaviour by a colleague, from five years previously.
This was in the seventies, when we had a very different understanding of paedophilia, and that understanding was common across society. Paedophilia was happening in many institutions and none were active against it.
Having grown up in the sixties and seventies I have personal recollection of the attitudes to paedophilia, relative to other crimes and social problems. It was low on the list. I didn’t even know it was a crime until it started coming to light in the 80’s - apart from literal “rape” (ie. forced, penetrative sex), which is not the subject here, nor is it in most of the accusations brought against Catholic clerics.
Relevant to this case, I’ve met Abp Wilson several times and live in Adelaide where he has been bishop for many years. I can personally vouch that he is warm, humble and and diligent. He is a “good shepherd”. No doubt he has his flaws, and over the course of his life has hurt other people both personally and in his professional role. Who hasn’t? His crime in this case was that in his youth, forty years ago, he didn’t act on several reports as he should have by today’s standards. Whether it was weakness, misjudgement, an honest mistake, or even malice we don’t know.
This case says more about society than it does about Abp Wilson or the Catholic Church. We are in dire trouble when we go digging for prosecutions on historical matters, and then prosecute and publish to the hilt (“persecute” is more apt), but do that digging very selectively. We are sanctimonious, vengeful, hypocritical, callous, capricious, and, finally, extravagant. We have no sense of proportion or justice.
The Rule of Law has become arbitrary - a tool for ideology, rather than a protection for all.
The headlines have misrepresented the case, as usual. Wilson was not a Bishop at the time and didn’t “cover up” anything. His crime (accepting the conviction) was to not follow up on several reports of indecent behaviour by a colleague, from five years previously.
This was in the seventies, when we had a very different understanding of paedophilia, and that understanding was common across society. Paedophilia was happening in many institutions and none were active against it.
Having grown up in the sixties and seventies I have personal recollection of the attitudes to paedophilia, relative to other crimes and social problems. It was low on the list. I didn’t even know it was a crime until it started coming to light in the 80’s - apart from literal “rape” (ie. forced, penetrative sex), which is not the subject here, nor is it in most of the accusations brought against Catholic clerics.
Relevant to this case, I’ve met Abp Wilson several times and live in Adelaide where he has been bishop for many years. I can personally vouch that he is warm, humble and and diligent. He is a “good shepherd”. No doubt he has his flaws, and over the course of his life has hurt other people both personally and in his professional role. Who hasn’t? His crime in this case was that in his youth, forty years ago, he didn’t act on several reports as he should have by today’s standards. Whether it was weakness, misjudgement, an honest mistake, or even malice we don’t know.
This case says more about society than it does about Abp Wilson or the Catholic Church. We are in dire trouble when we go digging for prosecutions on historical matters, and then prosecute and publish to the hilt (“persecute” is more apt), but do that digging very selectively. We are sanctimonious, vengeful, hypocritical, callous, capricious, and, finally, extravagant. We have no sense of proportion or justice.
The Rule of Law has become arbitrary - a tool for ideology, rather than a protection for all.
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FiveLinden
Guest
Umm, there was a law against it. The was a law against not reporting it. That’s why there was a court case in the first place. Offences were regularly prosecuted and reported in the press. The Church was very well aware of it because it kept hiding people who had abused for danger of scandal. The Royal Commission makes that clear. If he did not know, he should have known.
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Bradskii
Guest
Hey, he’s a nice guy. It happened a long time ago. Attitudes were different then. They weren’t actually raped. Who even knew it was a crime back then? The sexual assault of children was happening in many institutions and none of them used to report it. It could have been an honest mistake. He didn’t cover up anything, he just didn’t report it. This prosecution is ideological.
I think your post says a hell of a lot more about you than it does the case.
I think your post says a hell of a lot more about you than it does the case.
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Roseeurekacross
Guest
He is stepping down.
Statement from ACBC President Archbishop Mark Coleridge on Archbishop Wilson’s decision to stand aside
Wednesday 23 May 2018
Australian Catholic Bishops Conference
Statement from ACBC President Archbishop Mark Coleridge on Archbishop Wilson’s decision to stand aside:
Archbishop Philip Wilson has today decided to stand down as Archbishop of Adelaide, following yesterday’s verdict in a New South Wales court. We, his brother bishops, believe Archbishop Wilson’s decision, though difficult, was appropriate under the circumstances.
Our prayers are with all those who have felt the impact of this long legal process, including the survivors who shared their stories, as well as with the Archdiocese of Adelaide and with Archbishop Wilson himself.
There’s going to be an opening of the floodgates on this. He did not report a Priest’s sexual abuse. He covered it up, A lot of that went on. Police were also covering it up and brushing it aside. It won’t be just the Catholic Church facing this.
The 70’s onward, it was totally understood here , what paedophilia was, and rape was a crime, as it is now. Yes we are in this mess because much of it went unreported, not believed and covered up.
That didn’t help the victims and survivors though.
We must stop making excuses. We must say yes this happened, it’s time to deal with it.
What this says is society is saying no more, across secular and religious institutions.
Please don’t suggest these victims are not entitled to justice.
Statement from ACBC President Archbishop Mark Coleridge on Archbishop Wilson’s decision to stand aside
Wednesday 23 May 2018
Australian Catholic Bishops Conference
Statement from ACBC President Archbishop Mark Coleridge on Archbishop Wilson’s decision to stand aside:
Archbishop Philip Wilson has today decided to stand down as Archbishop of Adelaide, following yesterday’s verdict in a New South Wales court. We, his brother bishops, believe Archbishop Wilson’s decision, though difficult, was appropriate under the circumstances.
Our prayers are with all those who have felt the impact of this long legal process, including the survivors who shared their stories, as well as with the Archdiocese of Adelaide and with Archbishop Wilson himself.
There’s going to be an opening of the floodgates on this. He did not report a Priest’s sexual abuse. He covered it up, A lot of that went on. Police were also covering it up and brushing it aside. It won’t be just the Catholic Church facing this.
The 70’s onward, it was totally understood here , what paedophilia was, and rape was a crime, as it is now. Yes we are in this mess because much of it went unreported, not believed and covered up.
That didn’t help the victims and survivors though.
We must stop making excuses. We must say yes this happened, it’s time to deal with it.
What this says is society is saying no more, across secular and religious institutions.
Please don’t suggest these victims are not entitled to justice.
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Roseeurekacross
Guest
Let’s not trivialise sexual and physical abuse of children. Let’s not say, well it’s not like you were x y or z.
Not reporting was no mistake. It was a deliberate choice.
Not reporting was no mistake. It was a deliberate choice.
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FiveLinden
Guest
Everyone new it was a crime. I don’t believe you actually believe what you have written.
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Bradskii
Guest
Hey, hang on. I don’t believe what I wrote. I was just summarising Edmundus post. If you strip it of the verbiage then it sounds as it reads. Unthinking and unfeeling. Just a list of rather limp.excuses for a serious crime.Bradskii:
Everyone new it was a crime. I don’t believe you actually believe what you have written.
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FiveLinden
Guest
Ah I see and agree. I am at a loss whether to blame age or stupidity on my part!
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Edmundus1581
Guest
I agree that your last para highlights a problem in my own analysis.
However we, as a society, are very selective in which historical victims we give justice to.
For most crimes there is a statute of limitations (typically, less than ten years). Yes, victims of child abuse can take years to come forward and it is right to give an extension to the statute, but on the other hand the accused are entitled to justice too. I ask why the statute is removed for some crimes but not for others? Political motivation may well be a reason.
Meanwhile, forty years later, other grave damage is being done to children on a vast scale, which deserves our attention and money, and is being ignored.
It’s late, and I’ll try to respond again.
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sonofbarry
Guest
And they’re walking out the door and never coming back.
Ten years ago, we were down to 15% regular church attendance among Australian Catholics.
Has there been any compelling reason for them to return?
Ten years ago, we were down to 15% regular church attendance among Australian Catholics.
Has there been any compelling reason for them to return?
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LittleFlower
Guest
Sad, sad day to receive confirmation from the courts. I mean, it’s great but it is also so very sad that our priests have been led so astray. The once existing cover-up culture needs to be aired, so that it may never happen again.
Don’t forget the victims, the families, and those who are no longer with us due to the immense spiritual, physical, and mental abuse they suffered at the hands of clergy, religious brothers and sisters.
Don’t forget the victims, the families, and those who are no longer with us due to the immense spiritual, physical, and mental abuse they suffered at the hands of clergy, religious brothers and sisters.
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JimG
Guest
Prosecutors seem to have successfully prosecuted a crime from 40 years ago. Soon they can begin working on 30 year old cases, and work their way up to the present. I wonder what cases from today will be prosecuted 40 years from now.
I certainly hope they got it right. There have been some child abuse cases which were prosecuted immediately and still got it wrong.
I certainly hope they got it right. There have been some child abuse cases which were prosecuted immediately and still got it wrong.
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Bradskii
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You don’t have a lot of shame, do you. On one hand you grudgingly agree that the statute of limitations should be removed in child abuse cases and then immediately infer that it could be a political decision.
And that those who are accused should recieve justice? Well, I don’t know what justice looks like where you come from but a court of law, due process, an assumption of inocence and the opportunity to defend oneself is what it looks like in Australia.
And that those who are accused should recieve justice? Well, I don’t know what justice looks like where you come from but a court of law, due process, an assumption of inocence and the opportunity to defend oneself is what it looks like in Australia.
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