Australian Traditional Anglicans vote to become Catholic [CN-USA]

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Forward in Faith Australia, part of an Anglo-Catholic group that also has members in Britain and America, has voted to leave the Anglican Church. It is setting up a working group, guided by Melbourne Auxiliary Bishop Peter Elliott, on how best to move to Catholicism.

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Is this the end of the Anglican Church? It’s falling apart.
 
FabiusMaximus said:
Is this the end of the Anglican Church? It’s falling apart.
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No, it’s not (the end). People tend to forget that Anglicans are the 3rd largest body of Christians in the world. Anglicanism is transforming. Into what? We shall see.
 
Wow, I’m so happy. Finally, the reversal of the selfish and egomaniacal human being Henry VIII after almost 500 years. The first generation was forced to convert at fear of death. This generation can become educated in the faith and choose. How wonderful. Welcome, welcome, welcome!
 
There will be more news like this in the near future. Those Anglican who wish to come into commuion with the Church are having their Synods this month and in March. The plan is to present the official reply to the Holy Father by Easter.

From my sources, the Ordinariates are planned to be set up by the end of June 2010. There are many former Anglican priests and Bishops already in the Church that can be used to head the ordinariates. The Anglican Use parishes of the Catholic Church are being released into the Ordinariate to help give a foundation and I do believe guidance for incoming Anglicans.

In the States, the Bishops’ Synod is to be in March (latest) and the plan is for the Bishops to go Rome to present themselves to the Holy Father. They have already submitted to the Catholic Catechism.

All this said, do not expect a huge flood of Anglicans. Most are very protestant in theology and mindset. There has also be a great deal of misinformation floating around that has confused clergy and laity. Lastestly, Anglicanism has been in confusion since the mid
20th century and has been splintering since 1873. Many Anglicans have heard before that this action or that action or Bishop will fix things. Only to see it get worse. Many have developed a bunker mentality and to just be honest…Anglicans are use to fighting, clawing, calling names and not working together for at least 40 years. Authority is out the window. Don’t like your Bishop, just vote to leave and join another one. Just go to Anglican web boards.

Once this is seen to work, you will start seeing those who are tired of the fighting, drama, etc looking seriously at the Church. Those who are protestant, the vast majority, not so much.

Also, how much of the liturgy and praxis will the Anglicans retain. Tradition and liturgy are very important to the types of Anglicans the Holy Father is attracting.

All in all, the foundation is being laid. Let us pray for the Holy Father and the Anglicans coming into communion. The evil one and his minnions are working overtime to derail this reunion. Let us also pray for the Anglican clergy who will be leaving salary, pensions (if their church controls it)and possibly house to follow the will of Christ and to be one with the Church. Anglicans who are coming are stepping out in faith of the Lord and faith in the Church. They will be leaving much, if not everything behind. Many will lose long friendships and some family. Let us not forget the personal aspects of this faith walk.

Fr.Mark

(Hey, I don’t have to swim, the Holy Father has built a bridge!)
 
Lots of prayers for and a big welcome home to all of the Anglican brothers and sisters who are coming into the Catholic Church!
 
FabiusMaximus said:
Is this the end of the Anglican Church? It’s falling apart.
Click to expand...
As we know it. The talk is for a two tier Anglican Church, a spider web of communions and not in communion. The Global South (Anglicans in Africa, Asia, Latin America) are getting fed up with the North (UK, USA, Canada, Australia). Many Bishops did not go to Lambeth, are pulling out of Standing Committes, forming alternatives to Lambeth, Jerusalem (though they say it is not an alternative), say they don’t need the ArchBishop of Canturbury to be Anglican etc.

The communion is already greatly impaired. Many ArchBishops will not take Communion if the Presiding Bishop of the TEC is present. They are not in communion with the TEC. In the ACNA, Bishop Iker of Fort Worth has declared his is in impaired communion with his own ArchBishop Duncan over the ArchBishops approval and personally ordaining Women.

King Henry, Hooker, even Newman would not recognize or approve of what the Anglican Church has become. Many Anglicans see how troubled the Church is in; how many will say it in public is very few. Bishop Broadhurst, I believe, has publically said the Anglican Experiment is over.

If I read the lastest figures correctly, there are already 65 various types of Anglican Churches in the United States alone. Most not in communion with each other. This will happen world wide soon. No not next month, but in my lifetime. The Methodist in England are asking to rejoin the CoE, per VOL and other Anglican New sources. This influx of protestants will change the face of the CoE. I am interested to see if the CoE will require their minister to submit to ordination. Or will they just accept them as they are.

Fr. Mark
 
“King Henry, Hooker, even Newman would not recognize or approve of what the Anglican Church has become.”

Or even me.

As to the CoE/ Methodists, sounds like a possible Church of South India situation.

GKC

posterus traditus Anglicanus
 
This just makes my heart happy!

:heaven: God Bless them and our Catholic faith!
 
How many individuals are going to Romeward? No one knows. I am looking at the possibility, but I am not certain yet that I actually believe all that a Roman Catholic is required to believe. Could I come around? Perhaps.

One thing that eases the move of the TAC is that they are congregations that are coming, more or less en masse, and in this case, they are bringing whatever buildings they have. This will not be the case in churches now in the C of E, the ECUSA, and the ACOC, for example.

Apparently, the Vatican is surprised by the small number of apparent takers in England, and it seems to think members of the English Bishops Conference are quietly batting down the idea. Whether or not that is true remains to be seen. Most enthusiasm for the ordinariate is coming from clergy, not laity.

Fr. Mark brings up important point on the probable Methodist merger with the C of E. What about orders? While Catholics have some grounds to question Anglican orders, the issue of Methodist orders is clear. Methodists never claimed to have apostolic succession. In the US, they have bishops, but I am not sure they do in England. If they accept Methodists wholesale without ordination, what will happen in the rest of the Communion? What about the relationship of the English Methodists with the rest of the Methodist world? Will the United Methodist Church take in the smaller Episcopal Church? Frankly, we could use some Methodist morals.
MarkBrown said:
As we know it. The talk is for a two tier Anglican Church, a spider web of communions and not in communion. The Global South (Anglicans in Africa, Asia, Latin America) are getting fed up with the North (UK, USA, Canada, Australia). Many Bishops did not go to Lambeth, are pulling out of Standing Committes, forming alternatives to Lambeth, Jerusalem (though they say it is not an alternative), say they don’t need the ArchBishop of Canturbury to be Anglican etc.

The communion is already greatly impaired. Many ArchBishops will not take Communion if the Presiding Bishop of the TEC is present. They are not in communion with the TEC. In the ACNA, Bishop Iker of Fort Worth has declared his is in impaired communion with his own ArchBishop Duncan over the ArchBishops approval and personally ordaining Women.

King Henry, Hooker, even Newman would not recognize or approve of what the Anglican Church has become. Many Anglicans see how troubled the Church is in; how many will say it in public is very few. Bishop Broadhurst, I believe, has publically said the Anglican Experiment is over.

If I read the lastest figures correctly, there are already 65 various types of Anglican Churches in the United States alone. Most not in communion with each other. This will happen world wide soon. No not next month, but in my lifetime. The Methodist in England are asking to rejoin the CoE, per VOL and other Anglican New sources. This influx of protestants will change the face of the CoE. I am interested to see if the CoE will require their minister to submit to ordination. Or will they just accept them as they are.

Fr. Mark
Click to expand...
 
gamewell45 said:
It’s no more falling apart then the Catholic Church is falling apart. People switching churches is not uncommon in Christianity.
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That’s a little, um, disingenuous… I think the numbers bear out that there are some serious problems in TEC and other parts of the Anglican Communion, not to mention the rather public spectacle of TEC suing the pants off parishes that decide to leave.
(I don’t recall there being a spate of US Catholic parishes leaving… maybe I missed something?)

Denying that there’s a problem, or trying to equivocate that “it’s the same everywhere” when it blatantly isn’t, is probably a counterproductive approach to what’s going on… although it seems like a lot of the US hierarchy has adopted the “everything’s fine! nothing to see here!” attitude despite falling ASA and pledges.
 
chris_molter said:
That’s a little, um, disingenuous… I think the numbers bear out that there are some serious problems in TEC and other parts of the Anglican Communion, not to mention the rather public spectacle of TEC suing the pants off parishes that decide to leave.
(I don’t recall there being a spate of US Catholic parishes leaving… maybe I missed something?)

Denying that there’s a problem, or trying to equivocate that “it’s the same everywhere” when it blatantly isn’t, is probably a counterproductive approach to what’s going on… although it seems like a lot of the US hierarchy has adopted the “everything’s fine! nothing to see here!” attitude despite falling ASA and pledges.
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I don’t think its disingenuous; rather I think its all subjective; it depends on how each person looks at it. Like you I don’t recall there being a spate of US Catholic parishes leaving the church (so therefore you didn’t miss anything); what i meant by that was you have Catholics who leave the church for other religions; In my own parish, we’ve had several Ex-Catholics join our parish for whatever the reason. As I see it, people are free to worship in whatever church they want to do and if they want to leave the Catholic Church and worship with us, we’ll welcome them with open arms and likewise if someone or a group wants to leave TEC we’ll wish them the best of luck.

While there are some legal issues to be resolved between TEC and the “breakaway” parishes, I’m sure if a Catholic Parish decided to “breakaway” and form their own church; i’m sure the Catholic Diocese would attempt to recover property that belongs to the church.

So contrary to what some may think, the Episcopal Church is not “falling apart”; rather its evolving. Just my two cents.
 
gamewell45 said:
So contrary to what some may think, the Episcopal Church is not “falling apart”; rather its evolving. Just my two cents.
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I agree that “falling apart” is going too far… although when you start losing entire dioceses, I can see why someone would get that idea. Although I think the previous poster said the “Anglican Church” (assuming he meant the Anglican Communion and not the Continuum), which is going through some major transitions (creating a confessional statement for member churches, the two-track concept, etc.).

It’s hard for an outsider to realize that there’s a lot of pain and suffering going on inside Anglicanism. All they see is the headlines. 😦
 
There is alot going on n the Anglican Church, as a former epicopalian, I have seen many changes, most of which i don’t like. When I left the church i felt that there was no place in the Anglican church for someone with a conservative view. The last Sunday I attended an Episcopal Service I walked out, along with about 10 others, during the “Lord’s Prayer” which started “God in heaven, mother and father of all …” That was the first, and last, time I had ever witnessed such a thing.

Do you know that the priest in the church I walked out of, the church I had been baptized in, the church where our family had been members for over 100 years at that point, never, ever, ever contacted me to find out why I didn’t return.
 
Thank would make me get up and leave too, but I am sure I could find a more acceptable Episcopal church around.

But honestly, if you got up and left a Catholic Mass in the middle, do you expect a call from the priest asking if everything is OK?
NJRRK said:
There is alot going on n the Anglican Church, as a former epicopalian, I have seen many changes, most of which i don’t like. When I left the church i felt that there was no place in the Anglican church for someone with a conservative view. The last Sunday I attended an Episcopal Service I walked out, along with about 10 others, during the “Lord’s Prayer” which started “God in heaven, mother and father of all …” That was the first, and last, time I had ever witnessed such a thing.

Do you know that the priest in the church I walked out of, the church I had been baptized in, the church where our family had been members for over 100 years at that point, never, ever, ever contacted me to find out why I didn’t return.
Click to expand...
 
The numbers who will come from Anglcanism will be very small and i think you could end up with more ordained coming than laity. The fact is that the people who are left in the high church tend to be older and more conservative and so to leave, even though they hate what is going on around them, is harder than to just stay. Aligned to this is the fact that unlike most Catholic parishes there is a huge social network within Anglican churches and so unless everyone moves en masse (which they wont) then you would also end up losing social contacts. The sad fact is that most of these social contacts are not real friends so they are not worth staying for in the first place but you dont realsie that until you have left. This happened to my wife who went to an evangelical church and thought she had made many good friends, only to find out that they were only friends with her if she went to that church.
 
NJRRK said:
There is alot going on n the Anglican Church, as a former epicopalian, I have seen many changes, most of which i don’t like. When I left the church i felt that there was no place in the Anglican church for someone with a conservative view. The last Sunday I attended an Episcopal Service I walked out, along with about 10 others, during the “Lord’s Prayer” which started “God in heaven, mother and father of all …” That was the first, and last, time I had ever witnessed such a thing.

Do you know that the priest in the church I walked out of, the church I had been baptized in, the church where our family had been members for over 100 years at that point, never, ever, ever contacted me to find out why I didn’t return.
Click to expand...
Considering what you and the other 10 did, I don’t blame him. That was uncalled for; you could have remained silent and discreetly left at an appropriate time, but you and the others obviously chose to make a statement. Shame on you!
 
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