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Jennifer123
Guest
Same for me too. I think most people’s intentions here on the CA forums are compassionate. Notice I didn’t say all…!
Thanks to Ram for your kind words.
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Thanks to Ram for your kind words.
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TheRam
Guest
Wow, you stated what you wanted so kindly…that was nice, and delivered beautifully. I know that there is such a fine line in hurting someone, who might not reach or grow, out of hurt…therefore never gaining Gods full graces. This could lead to such different lonliness…an alone ness. Quite different. Just wanted to say, that i like the compassion you have shared to someone in pain!
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Al_Masetti
Guest
amazon.com/gp/product/0452264987/qid=1140135967/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-7884214-5971241?s=books&v=glance&n=283155
After the Ball : How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the 90’s (Paperback)
by Marshall Kirk, Hunter Madsen
Add this to your reading list. Many libraries have it.
“After the Ball”… it’s the “battle plan” to get the gay lifestyle accepted by Americans.
And it has been substantially successful.
Read it!
After the Ball : How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the 90’s (Paperback)
by Marshall Kirk, Hunter Madsen
Add this to your reading list. Many libraries have it.
“After the Ball”… it’s the “battle plan” to get the gay lifestyle accepted by Americans.
And it has been substantially successful.
Read it!
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goofyjim
Guest
Ah, but there are those who say we are all ontologically heterosexual. Therefore, despite my internal struggle with SSA, I claim to be hetero and continue sharing expenses because I really have no choice. I’m just not a loner because I find loneliness leads to suicide. I need an apartment mate to shoot the breeze with. It will always be a two bedroom though. I am still abiding by Church teaching and I challenge anyone to deny that.I often hear about engaged heterosexual couples who want to live together but not engage in marital relations until their wedding day, as their intentions are trying to be in the spirit of Church teaching but also want to save money by sharing expenses, etc.
I do not know of one orthodox priest, including Fr. Serpa here on CA, who advises such a thing. There is the risk of temptation as stated before, and I do appreciate the other poster who said it is possible as per their experience. There are other things to consider too in this example. We aren’t to lead each other into scandal, and the appearence of co-habitation between unmarried heteros can lead others to think that intentions aren’t where they should be. While we shouldn’t always be concerned with what others think, a cohabitating hetero couple could surely lose their witness, leading others to lose theirs as well.
I’m not so sure this example isn’t pertinent to a situation of former homosexuals living together chastely.
I don’t want to condemn anyone to lonliness by stating these things, and certainly there is no judgement of hearts here, but I am stating truth so that we all can be free. My heart to all those who struggle, but condoning something that isn’t true or life-affirming for the sake of being nice is false compassion IMHO.
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TheRam
Guest
Please do not feel that you have been challenged. I do not believe that it is the best situation as far as temptation, but i am not you. Maybe lonliness is a greater struggle. That is different than going into a gay relationship as a couple, but being celebat. Just because you are living with someone, does not mean that societies impression of you has ever come into our minds. It is not my business, so i do not pass judgement there. I believe that the discussion was pertaining to a gay couple committing to eachother, but never engaging in the act itself…both recognising it to be a sin. In those situations…i believe it to be very hard to not be tempted.
I hope you do not feel threatened, as that was not our intention…honestly!
Lana
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Jennifer123
Guest
Al Masetti said:
I haven’t read it but I am familiar with it - anyone who is interested in/if there’s a gay agenda should read it, myself included!
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Libero
Guest
I can understand any concerns about two homosexual people living together, and naturally these are the same concerns that would arise with two heterosexual people living together. I would add, that clearly two homosexuals should not live together if they are in doubt about their own state of mind, and wether or not they could manage. I find it a shame that we don’t have any middle of the ground priests giving some advice on the matter, we have the orthodox ones saying “simply do not engage with it” and then the liberal ones saying “times have changed” it would be nice to see some clarity on the matter, from a point of view that could merely be considered an “understanding Catholic” one.
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Edwin1961
Guest
When I listen to Catholic Answers Live and when the topic of annulments come up and the caller finds out that the couple’s previous marriage was valid. The statement of persons who have moved onto another relationship have to end up living like “Brother & Sister”. It’s the same thing as “brother & brother”. So , do college roomates in dorms that are either all male and all female committing in sin because they are ‘living together’?
Yes, lonlliness is a powerful experience to tackle. I even thought about getting another cat but you can’t hold a conversation or friendship activities with a cat.
As for now, I’m going to ask for intercession with God and see what happens. But, I’ve never felt such lonliness in all my life. However, I do believe Spiritual Warfare is afoot here.
I ask for prayers and lets move on to the subject at hand.
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Libero
Guest
Edwin,
I shall pray for you, I would also advise you to get another cat - they are great, I have two, and also the pope loves cats. Ah cats.
I shall pray for you, I would also advise you to get another cat - they are great, I have two, and also the pope loves cats.
Ah cats.
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goofyjim
Guest
I’m not and have never lived the gay lifestyle. I simply suffer from SSA. That gives me no reason to believe I am living in sin by sharing expenses with a male. I am not oversexed like the rest of the world seems to be and don’t find myself that tempted. I simply choose not to be alone.
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goofyjim
Guest
I should clarify. I just share expenses with a regular male. I never seek out homosexual males, in fact I get repulsed by them. But even though I suffer from SSA, I don’t have the means to live alone so financially I must share expenses with someone. Better another guy than a girl because I feel the girl would be a stronger temptation to me as far as acting out is concerned.
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gilliam
Guest
Libero,
Catholic teaching in faith and morals has not changed over time. I think you are trying to find someone who will tell you that it is OK to participate in sinful behavior if you really, really want to.
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Libero
Guest
I’m not saying that I want to hear people rejecting all of the conventional teachings, but rather that I wish there were some people who could tackle issues that have not been answered in scripture, but do so in an understanding way, that could not be deemed “conservative” or “liberal” just Catholic, I find sometimes with statements from conservative points of view, they do not address an issue looking at the human nature, as Jesus would address an issue, and when looking at a liberal statements, they seem to forget all of the history behind Catholicism, surely there is some good middle ground.
In the past, I have always looked to the current Archbishop of Westminster for this, he seems to be relatively good at preaching Christianity (i.e. could be defined as “Catholic” without any other sort of describer) in the most realisitic manner, but he also seems to shy away a bit from the more contraversial matters, a shame really.
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gilliam
Guest
It isn’t an issue. Homosexual sexual behavior is a sin. You either participate in the behavior and sin or you do not. You are in control of your own behaviors. It really is very simple, unless you are trying to get away with sinning.
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Libero
Guest
But it is not that simple, it is the human mind, the most complex thing on earth. I am not willing to summarise the human nature in two sentences - that make an absolute.
We cannot just run away from questions that are now being posed, which were never answered in scripture.
What constitutes homosexual sin?
What is homosexual love?
Does homosexual love mean sexual intercourse?
Etc Etc - these questions need to be answered with an openish mind, so that we can ensure we are fair, but do not permit conventional sin.
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gilliam
Guest
Of course it is that simple. It doesn’t matter if it was answered in the scripture you pay attention to or not. The subject we are talking about here is specifically behavior (what excuses you use to try to put the behavior past God is your decption, nothing else). The Church’s teaching on the subject has never changed.
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- You engage in homosexual sexual acts
- You know in your heart of hearts it is a sin
- You do it anyway (with or without rationalizing it to yourself)
Your talking about friendship here I suppose. Just using different words for it.
Beats me because I don’t use the term. Chaste love between people who are not married is usually known as friendship.
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I still think you are trying to rationalize sinful behavior.
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Libero
Guest
I am trying to show that I would want the church to attempt to try and expand it’s knowledge in areas that have been unprecedented in church history before, I think we could learn alot about actually studying homosexuality and the human mind, using psychologists, rather than just dismissing it. Homosexual love, does not equal homosexual sex. We may further our understanding of humanity, which I think would be a good thing, and we may even realise that the life for the homosexual does not have to be as hard as it is.
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goofyjim
Guest
Of course, it’s spiritual warfare. But we don’t need to fight the war alone. Try my approach. Share with a few your struggles. Don’t seek out an SSA roommate but one who may understand what you go through. Then you can always talk it out which has helped me much. It has prevented my acting out and turning to the gay community. Yet often I am totally at peace with my SSA before God.
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TheRam
Guest
ok, before i comment, i struggle to understand something…what is SSA? Sorry for my ignorance, and i want to comment based on knowing the terms in your post…thank you!
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goofyjim
Guest
The condition of finding the same sex attractive. I feel it has nothing to do with wanting to have a sexual relationship with the person. Therefore one can live with it peacefully.
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