Author of Golden Compass says: "My books are about killing God". (sick)

[bones_IV]

Fr. Martin Fox’s blog:

Parents can’t always keep up with popular culture—and when a movie is promoted as a fun adventure, featuring children riding enchanted polar bears, all in time for the Christmas season, what’s not to like?

Unfortunately, the film’s makers have an agenda. The film is based on the works of author Phil Pullman, who has written a series of entertaining stories called “His Dark Materials.” In his own words: “‘I’m trying to undermine the basis of Christian belief,’ says Pullman. ‘Mr. Lewis [C.S. Lewis, author of *The Chronicles of Narnia] would think I was doing the devil’s work’” (from the Washington Post, Feb. 19, 2001). And, “I’ve been surprised by how little criticism I’ve got. Harry Potter’s been taking all the flak…. Meanwhile, I’ve been flying under the radar, saying things that are far more subversive than anything poor old Harry has said. My books are about killing God” (from the Sydney Morning Herald, Dec. 13, 2003). Now that he is getting criticism, Mr. Pullman is telling a very different story.

For all those critics and writers who claim that these books are more pro christianity than anti christianity, the authors intent is clear and just because you say it is the opposite does not make the intent any less sinster.

People (for the most part) are not stupid.

 

[MSParrott]

Fr. Martin Fox’s blog:

Parents can’t always keep up with popular culture—and when a movie is promoted as a fun adventure, featuring children riding enchanted polar bears, all in time for the Christmas season, what’s not to like?

This is one parent who will NOT allow this book, movie or anything to do with it in my household. I already explained to my DD the position of the author and why her Dad and I want no part of it.

 

[Ahimsa]

Fr. Martin Fox’s blog:

Parents can’t always keep up with popular culture—and when a movie is promoted as a fun adventure, featuring children riding enchanted polar bears, all in time for the Christmas season, what’s not to like?

Unfortunately, the film’s makers have an agenda. The film is based on the works of author Phil Pullman, who has written a series of entertaining stories called “His Dark Materials.” In his own words: "‘I’m trying to undermine the basis of Christian belief,’ says Pullman. ‘Mr. Lewis [C.S. Lewis, author of *The Chronicles of Narnia

] would think I was doing the devil’s work’" (from the Washington Post, Feb. 19, 2001). And, “I’ve been surprised by how little criticism I’ve got. Harry Potter’s been taking all the flak…. Meanwhile, I’ve been flying under the radar, saying things that are far more subversive than anything poor old Harry has said. My books are about killing God” (from the Sydney Morning Herald, Dec. 13, 2003). Now that he is getting criticism, Mr. Pullman is telling a very different story.

For all those critics and writers who claim that these books are more pro christianity than anti christianity, the authors intent is clear and just because you say it is the opposite does not make the intent any less sinster.

People (for the most part) are not stupid.

Have you read the books?

Do you know what sort of “God” Pullman writes about “killing”?

 

[Ahimsa]

Of course Pullman does have the church in his sights. Indeed he is on record as saying that “My books are about killing God.” I just hope that The Golden Compass faithfully executes the deicide that the author so imaginatively conceived and elegantly crafted in the novel.

For the death of this God would actually do the church a great service.

 

[Brenda_V]

Have you read the books?

Do you know what sort of “God” Pullman writes about “killing”?

Yes, I read the books. It was disturbingly like my God! The Catholic Church and the Magisterium are represented as evil beings as well. This book is not “just a fantasy” in the same sense that “Harry Potter” or “The Lord of the Rings”.

It was not a great leap of the imagination to see what these books are about and then to have Pullman say that was his intent - to be the anti-God book, the Anti-Narnia books. Kind of confirms what I felt when I read the books!

I read all the Harry Potter books, I have read all of the Chronicles of Narnia and The Lord of the Rings (three or four times now), I will never read The Golden Compass again, they are well written and a page turner but the content was just disturbing.

As for the Producers of the movies, they said that they purposely toned the story down in order to make it more palatable to Christians but that doesn’t change the fact that often times movies made from books often lead the viewer to want to read the book.

Brenda V.

 

[Ahimsa]

Yes, I read the books. It was disturbingly like my God!

How so? Can you be a bit more specific?

 

[Contarini]

Has it ever crossed the minds of any of you (who are complaining about the Golden Compass) that your fear of hostile ideas is one of the most powerful argument against Christianity? Surely, a skeptic might suggest, if Christianity were true, you wouldn’t need to tremble in your boots every time someone challenges it. Let the best story win. I’m confident that the story of Jesus can beat any story that goes up against it. Insofar as Pullman’s story contains goodness and truth (and it contains quite a lot), I wish it well. Insofar as it contains silly caricatures and an unhealthy, idolatrous exaltation of untrammeled freedom (and it contains a lot of that too), it is doomed.

Why would a Christian worry? You have almost unlimited opportunities of influencing your children to follow your faith. If one book/movie can do that much damage, that doesn’t say much either for Christianity or for your skills in inculcating it.

Edwin

 

[stove]

How so? Can you be a bit more specific?

It is pretty clear which God he is trying to kill. In his story, Pullman writes:

“The Authority, God, the Creator, the Lord, Yahweh, El, Adonai, the King, the Father, the Almighty…”

 

[Ahimsa]

It is pretty clear which God he is trying to kill. In his story, Pullman writes:

“The Authority, God, the Creator, the Lord, Yahweh, El, Adonai, the King, the Father, the Almighty…”

In what context is this quote?

 

[stove]

In what context is this quote?

The context is in a scene where a fallen angel tells one of the novel’s young heroes who the enemy is:

The Authority, God, the Creator, the Lord, Yahweh, El, Adonai, the King, the Father, the Almighty – those were all names he gave himself. He was never the creator. He was an angel like ourselves – the first angel, true, the most powerful, but he was formed of Dust as we are, and Dust is only a name for what happens when matter begins to understand itself.

 

[bones_IV]

The context is in a scene where a fallen angel tells one of the novel’s young heroes who the enemy is:

Agreed.

Anyone who is Catholic and endorses either the books or movie should be ashamed. We have become so timid about defending of beliefs, stating our faith. When was the last time you went to a restaurant and saw someone make the sign of the cross before eating? It is as if for many Catholics they treat their faith like a secret society and are willing to compromise their beliefs in order not to make waves. Jesus said He came to divide not unite. (Yes, Jesus is a divider not a uniter.)

 

[bones_IV]

Ahisma, here a few things you need to know about Pullman. Mr. Pullman suffers from, among other ailments, a chronic swelling of hubris. The condition known to the ancient Greeks and to most of mankind is extremely dangerous and resembles the Ebola virus. The difference is that hubris eats away the soul till it destructs while Ebola eats away the body. Look for Mr. Pullman to have the fall that comes after false pride.

Here’s thing that gets me about Pullman. this man is dishonest not only with himself,but with everyone else too,so lying,backpedalling,and deliberate muddying of the waters is nothing to be surprised at. Ahisma, in case you haven’t realized it yet, he’s a LIAR,guys,isn’t that clear yet? He will lie,cheat,and manipulate the facts in order to advance his
filthy mindset onto our youngsters. He deserves more than just being banned or boycotted,in the cosmic scheme type of way,but that is for God to execute judgment upon. Personally,I believe this man to be actively evil,and he needs to be directly opposed,and removed from public circulation for attempted
corruption of the morals of our society,and the attempted seduction of all minor children worldwide.
He’s as bad if not worse than a pedophile,for he steals the Hope that our children have in Jesus,by telling them that it is all a lie. That should be a criminal offense.
Stealing the Faith and innocence of an entire generation with his filthy fantasy of a corrupt and corrupting Church,and a God who is so old and senile that He cannot function anymore.
THIS IS NOT the God of the Bible,or the Holy Catholic Church that I know and love,but a filthy Satanically-inspired counterfeit;a calculated intentionallly twisted insult.
This author had better HOPE that God will have mercy upon him when his time comes. Barring that,I think that Mr. Pullman has a very warm place already awaiting him in Hell,whether he believes that it exists or not. That should be a criminal offense.

 

[Ahimsa]

The context is in a scene where a fallen angel tells one of the novel’s young heroes who the enemy is:

The Authority, God, the Creator, the Lord, Yahweh, El, Adonai, the King, the Father, the Almighty – those were all names he gave himself. He was never the creator. He was an angel like ourselves – the first angel, true, the most powerful, but he was formed of Dust as we are, and Dust is only a name for what happens when matter begins to understand itself.

Well, one way to understand this is just what it says: a fallen angel, the most powerful angel in fact, set himself up as The Authority, the Father, the Almighty. Such an angel is by definition finite, limited, no matter how much power he might have.

If I remember my Bible studies, wasn’t it Satan who was the most brilliant of the angels, who tried to set himself up as “God” in the eyes of men, who was “never the creator”, but a creation “like ourselves”?

If a non-creator set himself up as the Creator, would you not reject such an imposter?

The True Creator could never be overthrown.

 

[Arnobius]

Well, one way to understand this is just what it says: a fallen angel, the most powerful angel in fact, set himself up as The Authority, the Father, the Almighty. Such an angel is by definition finite, limited, no matter how much power he might have.

If I remember my Bible studies, wasn’t it Satan who was the most brilliant of the angels, who tried to set himself up as “God” in the eyes of men, who was “never the creator”, but a creation “like ourselves”?

If a non-creator set himself up as the Creator, would you not reject such an imposter?

The True Creator could never be overthrown.

The problem with your reasoning, Ahimsa, is that we need to understand what the author intends by it and not the meaning we would like to give to it.

smh.com.au/articles/2003/12/12/1071125644900.html

snopes.com/politics/religion/compass.asp

 

[Dwyer]

Honestly, I’ve noticed this thread sort of illustrates what almost always happens in a lot of these threads here.

Someone makes a statement which defends a view which is interpreted from a Catholic or Christian perspective.

Then someone who is not Catholic or who is Catholic and has more modern views makes a counter statement. Often, it ends up into these hair splitting micro /macroscopic analyses of written statements, with the counter statement side demanding a smoking gun sentence, written in patently clear unambiguous Anglo-Saxon states that this person said that or that guy means this, and if you don’t have a sentence spelling it out word for word in an uninterrupted sentence then forget it: you can’t prove anything.

Human Beings are not always frank in their language; they beat around the bush; they communicate using innuendo and allusion; some times, you have to read between the lines and scrutinize what people are saying, and then draw conclusions. People always don’t speak the truth or their minds directly. Formulistic logic, while very helpful in analyzing people’s statements, is not the only criterion (before you ask my to elaborate, because I won’t, try to think about human nature).

From the threads, it sounds like these stories are receiving a special endorsement from American public school districts through the placement of a poster in school libraries.

Why this book over all the other books written in human literature?? Why don’t these children read classic literature like Beowulf, Canterbury Tales, Shakespeare’s Dramas, Aesop’s Fables, The Great Brain series, Tom Sawyer, The Iliad, The Odyssey. These books are classics, have withstood the test of time, and are part of the heritage of Western culture.

These are among the greatest works of art in the history of Western man; they have a million times more educational value than the Golden Compass; but instead, American public schools close school early and take these kids to the movie theater to watch Harry Potter on its opening day.

I have no idea where this Golden Compass book came from; it certainly is not a classic, i.e., withstood the test of time, and sounds like it was written by another hack who wants to make a fortune off a bunch of children (you can buy all the toys at your local Box store and I’m sure there will be a fast food tie in as well).

If you guys have any good questions that are sincere, I might answer them; however, I’m not answering and refuse to answer any trifling, annoying questions of the kind, with all due respect, that IMO Ahimsa is asking. I don’t have to and I’m not obligated to and I don’t want to waste my time on every Tom, Jerry, and Harry that poses a question.

 

[Graing]

Has it ever crossed the minds of any of you (who are complaining about the Golden Compass) that your fear of hostile ideas is one of the most powerful argument against Christianity? Surely, a skeptic might suggest, if Christianity were true, you wouldn’t need to tremble in your boots every time someone challenges it. Let the best story win. I’m confident that the story of Jesus can beat any story that goes up against it. Insofar as Pullman’s story contains goodness and truth (and it contains quite a lot), I wish it well. Insofar as it contains silly caricatures and an unhealthy, idolatrous exaltation of untrammeled freedom (and it contains a lot of that too), it is doomed.

Why would a Christian worry? You have almost unlimited opportunities of influencing your children to follow your faith. If one book/movie can do that much damage, that doesn’t say much either for Christianity or for your skills in inculcating it.

Edwin

Edwin,

Based on your post I might guess that you do not have children, at least not young children. It is a natural instinct to protect young children. Pullman specifically targets young children as he knows that they are more vulnerable than mature adults that are well formed in your faith. Would you knowingly allow preteens to associate with drug pushers who may lie and tell your children that he has some great candy in order to get them hooked on drugs? I would think you are an irresponsible parent if you knowingly endagered your child like this. I don’t think it’s too much different with these books (or movie). It’s not the work in and of itself - it is the work combined with the creator’s stated intent to “turn our children into good little atheists”. By your logic, why shouldn’t you let your children participate in black masses?

I prefer to protect the young. It’s silly to look at something as important as the faith formation of our children as a contest. Let the best story win? Please. Our children are treasures of incalculable value and gifts from God. We should do all we can to protect them from evil when we can. When they mature, hopefully they will have the strength, faith and will to protect their children.

 

[deb1]

Threads like this are helpful in giving parents the tools that they need to decide if their particular child should read these novels. Some parents might very well decide that these books are acceptable. For some parents, with children in public school, the knowledge that other kids are going to read this series and discuss it with their child anyway, might prompt the parents to read this outloud to their kids so that they can discuss it as a family.

At the same time, if a parents evaluate their particular situation and decide not to allow their child to read the material their choice should be equally respected.

My own decision is that I would allow my 14 year old son to read these novels-although he has shown no inclination to do so- but I would probably not allow my 11 year old daughter to. Perhaps when she is a bit older I might change my mind.

I make the same type of decisions in regard to literature, music or movies. Some movies are appropriate for my older boys that I don’t allow the younger girls to view. This is what parents do.

I have never been for banns and am uncomfortable with boycotts. It has always been my opinion that it is the job of parents to police their children’s media and literature choices not the networks or publishers. So, it irks me when people decide to criticize parents for making these sorts of decisions.

I do plan to read these novels myself, as soon as I can get them from the library.

 

[jediliz]

Read the latest comment on this controversy from my local paper’s religion section.

journalstar.com/articles/2007/12/05/living/religion/doc47506ec1e737e291511084.txt

I so want to comment and tell “Ryan”:

**If this book was attacking Islam, there would have been death threats and the movie never would have been allowed to be made. Yet its attacking Christianity and Christianity DESERVES it?

**Of course I am not commenting, but the comments FOR these books and FOR the movie, are disturbing. Especially from the commenters that claim to be Catholic or Christian. And they ignored “DES” who said she/he read the books and actually saw the anti religion message.

 

[Arnobius]

Read the latest comment on this controversy from my local paper’s religion section.

journalstar.com/articles/2007/12/05/living/religion/doc47506ec1e737e291511084.txt

I so want to comment and tell “Ryan”:

**If this book was attacking Islam, there would have been death threats and the movie never would have been allowed to be made. Yet its attacking Christianity and Christianity DESERVES it?

**Of course I am not commenting, but the comments FOR these books and FOR the movie, are disturbing. Especially from the commenters that claim to be Catholic or Christian. And they ignored “DES” who said she/he read the books and actually saw the anti religion message.

It is interesting, and tragic, to scroll through the comments with the article you cited and see that they are entirely anti-religious in nature.

They don’t have a valid response to the concerns. They respond with ad hominem, implying only that the believers who are concerned are ignorant and blind followers.

It is the same sort of arguments used with The Last Temptation of Christ. No real rebutal, merely an attack on people who take their faith seriously.

 

[Arnobius]

It is interesting that the website and forum of the “His Dark Materials” trilogy is very contemptuous of Christianity, as well as offended by the reduction of the atheistic materials in the movie

speroforum.com/site/article.asp?id=12775 was the article that put me on to their forum’s existence.

The arguments are notably common: Those who are offended are labeled ignorant narrow minded and stupid generally.