Authority in Catholicism and Protestantism..

[hawkeye125646]

I see it there supported by vast passages of scripture… How do you argue with a JW then? Seems if scripture isn’t clear enough to solve your differences, I’m guessing history won’t be either and you are both going to be just pointing to your ultimate interpreters for proof… I can’t see that working, with respect, just my oberservation

I don’t view it as dropping from the sky, I can’t recommend that book I posted earlier enough on this… The question infeel i should ask here then is why the Apostles wrote it in the first place then and sent it to fallible independent congregations? If they can’t understand these writings why did they even send them? This appeal to the kergyma, with respect, seems another way of saying “were infallible” which as we’ve already seen, can’t be discussed… The thing with an ultimate authority as it can’t be tested.

With respect, that’s a bold claim and is utterly untrue. It’s abundantly clear… It seems almost an insult to the writers of scripture to tell them they can’t write anything people will get… I guess the tract on this very site on answering JW’s from scripture is pretty null and void then? With respect, it’s not. The scripture is clear on this. Hope this doesn’t sound aggressive Prmerger

Regards

Lincs.

Actually, you can see the Trinity, in the old testament… Read Exodus 25:23-30

The 1) Ark of the Covenant, (Father!) 2) The Golden Lampstand (he Holy Spirit!) and 3) The Bread of the Presence (Jesus the son)

1. The Ark of the Covenant was the throne of God!
2. The Golden Lampstand was referred to as the Menorah… It had 7 candles on it, which were to be lit ALL THE TIME!
3. The bread of the presence was to be set on a Golden table and put inside the holy place!

Also a great site to check out is godandscience.org/apologetics/triunity.html It goes through only the old testament! Really good read! May God bless you!

 

[GaryTaylor]

But I would like to point out that just because the Catholic church has valid authority and valid teaching, that it’s members can cause as much damage as the wayward Protestants you validly critique…

Can and do. Doesn’t make those wayward Lutherans non Christian, nor does it make those wayward Catholics non Catholic, it just means they are wrong and we pray for them and attempt to work with them.

This has little to do with complete breaks from Christianity as the Protest has continued to splinter and complete congregations have some new “Revelation” from God which seems a bit bizaar in some situations. Or to relate to the immediate message of the Church in relation to Contraceptives etc. Pretty much a complete break from the CC in all areas. Amazing how some would claim apostasy when Down is Up today.

Senator Nancy Pelosi and HHS director Kathleen Sebelius come to mind. If I didn’t respect you, would ordinarily repeat the “By your fruits you shall know them” a previous Catholic gave to me a few posts up, but as you can see, that is gorssly unfair. .

And on the other end of true CC teaching is the USCCB. Who should one listen to the Bishops who actually hold Apostolic Succession, or the above who hold a “Temporal Position” in a Temporal Empire.

Our prayers are with them. A Saint once said; “Be truthful, and know who you are before God” Apparently neither do.

While the Catholic church doesn’t have much of a crisis of valid doctrine - it too has a crisis of effective promulgation of that doctrine, just as my own Lutheran church does.

Does it, or do those who follow the CC have the crisis? I believe the issue resides here.

If I had a recommendation, let us go to our individual churches and do our best to help our own respective brothers with gaining wisdom to see the truth.

Right, that would be the immediate response. Nevertheless we have to see the larger picture and strive for it. Individual error will always be in the equation. Why, does someone have a perfect record out here? The church would “prevail” was the phrase, and it has. Leads me to the conviction it will continue to. Easy, wasn’t in the equation. The window of opportunity is still open as to the USA. I’m of the belief the Apostolic Church’s are the path through this, always have been as a historic fact, doesn’t mean other congregations do not have very good Christians. Mainline Protestant Churchs are not the issue, yet are they part of the solution?

Let me put this another way, if the break in Christian continuity has escalated to the point which it has, where a country of 90% Christians is actually embracing the idea of a repeat with Obama, Pelosi and Sebelius, which it obviously is, then we have a bigger problem than most would like to admit. Christianity is divided against itself, not good in light of the present US and world situation.

Peace

 

[mackbrislawn]

Be careful with the logic of condemning one group for the sins of another. As the fruits of Catholicism was the Reformation.

Wow!