Authority to choose Saints

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GiannaMarie_JMJ

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My Protestant friend asked me this question tonight, " Why is it that the Catholic Church decides who is considered a Saint. It doesnt really matter the process, its why they choose the people and who gave these men authority to judge, since the Bible condems judging. Why did the Catholic Church decide who is worthy of being a saint and what is the point?"
So I guess now the whole thing boils down to, Why do we pray to the Saints?? Is all of this biblical??

God Bless,

GiannaMarie_JMJ
 
Well in my opinion all questions from Protestants that begin with “Why is it the Catholic Church decides…” really are questions about the authority of the Catholic Church. Christ himself gave the his Church, the Church he established which I believe is the Catholic Church ALL right, to make ALL decisions. He did this through establishing His Church with Peter as the head (Thou art Rock and on this Rock I will build my Chuch…) and when he gave the keys to the kingdom to the apostles. Also when he gave the authority to “loose and bind” sins.

Protestants believe ALL people who die go to heaven. I was raised a baptist preacher’s and had an emotional experience after a hard-hitting sermon when I was five (sermon was about if a person doesn’t declare Jesus is son of God and died for their sins they would die and go to Hell). It kind of scared me to Jesus : )

It is true Jesus is the son of God and did die for my sins. Protestants believe that every person who comes to that belief then is “saved” for all time, with past, present, and future sins all forgiven at once. Therefore, when one dies they automatically believe all people go to heaven and are “saints” in heaven so to speak. I’ve been to a bajillion funerals and the protestants always say the deceased person went to heaven. I’ve never heard any preacher ever say, “well we can’t find anyone who remembers that the departed didn’t say Jesus Christ was Lord and died for their sins, and we’re not sure, so he’s probably going to Hell.” They just all presume and talk about the person going to heaven.

I believe the Bible clearly teaches Heaven is our hope in Christ, and that baptism, belief he is the son of God and died for my sins AND keeping his commandments set up by his Church (the Catholic Church), is what prepares me for heaven.

The Catholic Church never declares that any person goes to Hell. It never declares that any person goes to Heaven. It does declare that some persons are Saints and are in Heaven. There is quite an investigation and process that goes along with this. This is all a part of the Church having authority to administrate Christ’s Church. The Holy Spirit directs the leaders (we call it the Pope and the Magisterium) in all truth and keeps it on track. (This is the part of Christ’s assurance to Peter when he established the Church and establised Peter as the first head of the Church that “the gates of hell will not prevail against it.”)

I’d also suggest doing a search on this website for information about saints.

Also, Cathlics have a doctrine called Communion of Saints. That’s another doctrine the Protestants attack because they do not understand. Be careful of Protestant attacks. They may be well intentioned, but they do tend to twist words and may try to use your lack of knowledge of what your Church believes to turn you away from your faith. Use this opportunity to learn what your Church teaches. I’d recommend a good Catholic Bible (the Catholic Answers Bible has some great inserts that answer questions. I’d also recommend you read the Catechism (the big green paperback one) has answers. Also, there is Catholic for Dummies…and many other great books that are an entry into the study.

God bless you, I will keep you in my prayers. Do not fear the questions of Protestants, but turn to God in prayer for assistance, and he will lead you to know more about your rich and glorious Catholic faith. (Oh, also, Our Lady is wonderful to assist with that also.)
 
I second the recommendation to clarify exactly what your Protestant friend is asking so you know how to answer. Often, Catholics and Protestants can wind up talking past each other because the same language means different things to each. Be sure you know and define certain words and terms in your conversations, if needed.

His/her use of the word “judge” with regard to the Catholic Church does seem to indicate her issue is not necessarily with the communion of saints (though she may have issue with that as well), but that she’s questioning the authority of the Church. Ask him/her to elaborate to make sure you understand if that’s the case. If Church authority seems to be the real root of their issue, then you can tackle that.

You might clarify too that when the Catholic Church declares someone a saint, that declaration does not make them a saint. We agree with Protestants that judging is for God alone. But He can and does allow us to know whether someone is in heaven, which the Church discerns through the process of canonization.

Why does the Catholic Church canonize saints? That is rooted in our understanding of the communion of saints - “Through canonization, the Church gives thanks to God and at the same time honours those children of hers who have corresponded generously to divine grace. And she proposes them for all her children as intercessors and models of the holiness to which all are called.” (Cardinal José Saraiva Martins).

So, three points here: clarify whether he/she is questioning the authority of the Church or the Church’s teaching on the communion of saints and whether he/she understands what the Church means when someone is declared a saint.

To answer whether these Catholic doctrines are Biblical, absolutely, yes. To start, check out the resources Catholic Answers has available online in their library. They also have great books available on these topics and how to communicate with Protestants effectively. I also recommend “Search and Rescue: How to Bring Your Family and Friends into - or Back Into - the Catholic Church” by Patrick Madrid.
 
GiannaMarie_JMJ said:
My Protestant friend asked me this question tonight, " Why is it that the Catholic Church decides who is considered a Saint. It doesnt really matter the process, its why they choose the people and who gave these men authority to judge, since the Bible condems judging. Why did the Catholic Church decide who is worthy of being a saint and what is the point?"
So I guess now the whole thing boils down to, Why do we pray to the Saints?? Is all of this biblical??

God Bless,

GiannaMarie_JMJ
Click to expand...
only God chooses Saints
to Canonize something is to make an official recognition within the Church. the Bible is Canonized, but the Bible isn’t a saint. Canonization doesn’t make a saint, it just recognizes what God has revealed to us. does the Catholic Church know all the saints in heaven? of course not! thats why we have November 1 for them, the Feast of All Saints.
 
Saints are “God’s friends.” They are surely in Heaven.

When the Church proclaim sainthood, she uses the authority given to her by her Groom, Christ and Lord. When the Apostles and early Christian disciples exercised this (including their forgiveness of sins), the people praises God for giving such power to men. I hope the reaction is not about envy but rather a “wow” for God!

When the Church proclaims someone a saint, she makes everyone sure that the soul of the same person is in heaven with God. Indeed, not every saint can be known and proclaimed because God is the final judge. Hence, the Church has a day every year called “All Saints Day” for all the other saints not proclaimed ordinarily (read: “according to the usual order”).

Hope this helps.
 
GiannaMarie_JMJ said:
My Protestant friend asked me this question tonight, " Why is it that the Catholic Church decides who is considered a Saint. It doesnt really matter the process, its why they choose the people and who gave these men authority to judge, since the Bible condems judging. Why did the Catholic Church decide who is worthy of being a saint and what is the point?"
So I guess now the whole thing boils down to, Why do we pray to the Saints?? Is all of this biblical??

God Bless,

GiannaMarie_JMJ
Click to expand...
I remember asking those same questions as Protestant myself, and I have found that the question was based on a misconception in the first place. In our Protestant Church we were taught we were all saints, because we were taught we were all saved by praying the “sinner’s prayer”. So I would say firstly you need to make sure you’ve both got the same definition of what a saint is. And my understanding of the Catholic Church is that anyone who is in Heaven (not Purgatory) with Jesus is a saint. Until we die and are judged, someone is not yet a saint.

The next definition that is confusing is the one of “canonisation”. As a Protestant, I thought this meant that the church was declaring someone was a saint. But that’s not the case. Instead, the Church is recognising the sainthood that Jesus has already bestowed, and adding that person’s name to the list of recognised saints.

Something that I did not understand as a Protestant was that the saints in heaven could interact with us on earth. The phrase “communion of saints” that I repeated in my Anglican church every week, did not have the meaning for me that it does now. I used to assume once someone is dead, they are completely separated from us and cannot have contact with us until we also have died. But the belief of the Catholic Church, as I understand it, is that the saints can hear us and can pray for us, and we can directly ask them for their prayers as we would our friend sitting next to us. Moreover, since they are already in Heaven with Jesus, their prayers are particularly powerful and many miracles have been worked through those prayers. Something I was not even conscious of as a Protestant.

For me, learning how the Church makes the decisions of how someone is canonised was a real eye-opener. While it is a judgement call on the part of the Church, it is based on much investigation, evidence and reasoning. It is not a decision made lightly or easily. And given that it is really just a recognition of what Jesus has already judged and decided, it really takes that mantle of judgement off the Church, and puts it back on Jesus where it belongs.
 
GiannaMarie_JMJ said:
My Protestant friend asked me this question tonight, " Why is it that the Catholic Church decides who is considered a Saint. It doesnt really matter the process, its why they choose the people and who gave these men authority to judge, since the Bible condems judging. Why did the Catholic Church decide who is worthy of being a saint and what is the point?"
So I guess now the whole thing boils down to, Why do we pray to the Saints?? Is all of this biblical??

God Bless,

GiannaMarie_JMJ
Click to expand...
The Bible does not condemn praise. It doesn’t forbid you from going up to a doctor who saved your life and saying “you are a wonderful doctor.” The same goes for the outstandingly holy, those who died for their faith we are able to call them saints.

-Prophecy
 
Thank you all SO much for your answers. They all helped me better to understand this topic and how to respond to this question. :yyeess:

This particular comment really stuck to me and I appreciate it again for responding to my thread.
Lightbee said:
IThe next definition that is confusing is the one of “canonisation”. As a Protestant, I thought this meant that the church was declaring someone was a saint. But that’s not the case. Instead, the Church is recognising the sainthood that Jesus has already bestowed, and adding that person’s name to the list of recognised saints.
Click to expand...
God Bless you all,

GiannaMarie_JMJ
 
WOW excellent responses – you all helped me understand better as well. THANK you!
 
They choose saints so that we know how to ask for intercession. It’s just like saying, “We have good reason to believe this individual is in heaven, and thus able to pray for us.”
 
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