Authority

[Isaiah45_9]

As a parent of 4 children, 2 of them teenagers :stretcher:, I used to fall in the trap of not getting into an argument or taking the time to explain things to my children and I used to end the discussion with something like: “Because I am the head of the household and I say so” or “Because I say so”.

I have abandoned my “old” ways and I have been taking the time to explain and present my position on certain subject matters and why some rules are in place and why some principles need to be followed.

Needless to say, the response from my children has been drastic… for the better!

They feel respected and given the opportunity to present their case. On some instances, I’ve had to retract and admit that I was too harsh or unreasonable with some things.

Lately, I have been reading several threads (No I am not going to list them for the sake of argument, if you can’t see them there’s no point in arguing over them. Because I say so! lol) where the main argument is:

Who has the authority to declare heresy in the Protestant?
Who has the authority to establish the books of the bible in the Protestant?
Who has the authority to interpret the bible in the Protestant?
etc, etc, etc…

Clearly a book doesn’t interpret itself.
Sola scriptura is annulled by sola scriptura.

The tendency of some non-catholic believers to reject anything that is Catholic is just… wrong.

All this looks like a really big grudge between a parent and a child. The prodigal son history repeating itself. Only that instead of taking all the inheritance money, the prodigal son took “some” books of the bible.

Now I believe the fight started way before the Reformation and it just went downhill form there. The great schism, for those that like to point to what exactly I’m referring to.

So, going back to my point, instead of reading threads for an honest and merciful invitation to dialog (In my little time on these forums, only PJM and Patrick567 extend a merciful and educational conversation, following in the steps of 1 Peter 3:8), all I see is that

because the RC has authority you must subdue to it…

I believe that was what provoked the Schism and the Reformation in the first place.

I can’t help but think of Matthew 3:7-9
[bibledrb]Matthew 3:7-9[/bibledrb]

John the Baptist, clearly and rightfully declares that God can raise His children even from stones!

Paul clearly demonstrates his frustration while preaching to the Jews, because of their “stiff necks”, read stubbornness.

How many times do we need to be humbled in order to clearly understand?

In my limited understanding, I don’t see a solution. I do rest and know that our Lord does.

Please keep me in your prayers as I keep you in mine.

God Bless,

Jose

PS - Just rumbling around some thoughts… tomorrow, I’ll probably realize I didn’t make much sense! lol. Anyways, sometimes it help to talk out loud… or type

 

[CopticChristian]

As a parent of 4 children, 2 of them teenagers :stretcher:, I used to fall in the trap of not getting into an argument or taking the time to explain things to my children and I used to end the discussion with something like: “Because I am the head of the household and I say so” or “Because I say so”.

I have abandoned my “old” ways and I have been taking the time to explain and present my position on certain subject matters and why some rules are in place and why some principles need to be followed.

Needless to say, the response from my children has been drastic… for the better!

They feel respected and given the opportunity to present their case. On some instances, I’ve had to retract and admit that I was too harsh or unreasonable with some things.

Lately, I have been reading several threads (No I am not going to list them for the sake of argument, if you can’t see them there’s no point in arguing over them. Because I say so! lol) where the main argument is:

Who has the authority to declare heresy in the Protestant?
Who has the authority to establish the books of the bible in the Protestant?
Who has the authority to interpret the bible in the Protestant?
etc, etc, etc…

Clearly a book doesn’t interpret itself.
Sola scriptura is annulled by sola scriptura.

The tendency of some non-catholic believers to reject anything that is Catholic is just… wrong.

All this looks like a really big grudge between a parent and a child. The prodigal son history repeating itself. Only that instead of taking all the inheritance money, the prodigal son took “some” books of the bible.
Now I believe the fight started way before the Reformation and it just went downhill form there. The great schism, for those that like to point to what exactly I’m referring to.

So, going back to my point, instead of reading threads for an honest and merciful invitation to dialog (In my little time on these forums, only PJM and Patrick567 extend a merciful and educational conversation, following in the steps of 1 Peter 3:8), all I see is that I believe that was what provoked the Schism and the Reformation in the first place.

I can’t help but think of Matthew 3:7-9
[bibledrb]Matthew 3:7-9[/bibledrb]

John the Baptist, clearly and rightfully declares that God can raise His children even from stones!

Paul clearly demonstrates his frustration while preaching to the Jews, because of their “stiff necks”, read stubbornness.

How many times do we need to be humbled in order to clearly understand?

In my limited understanding, I don’t see a solution. I do rest and know that our Lord does.

Please keep me in your prayers as I keep you in mine.

God Bless,

Jose

PS - Just rumbling around some thoughts… tomorrow, I’ll probably realize I didn’t make much sense! lol. Anyways, sometimes it help to talk out loud… or type

The prodigal son ate with swine. The prodigal son returned and on return I anticipate that the Prodigal son will realize that the 66 books that were taken were incomplete as was the reason for leaving and will be welcomed home.:extrahappy::grouphug:

 

[Trishie]

Please keep me in your prayers as I keep you in mine.

God Bless,

Jose

Prayers for you also.

There IS an authority that we can trust and it is the word of Jesus which is what as Catholics, we trust. And you can say, ah, but those words are contained within the bible, so what proof that they are true? No matter. We do have faith these these are the words of God Incarnate, and of His promises to us.

15 “But what about you?” he [Jesus] asked. “Who do you say I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."Matthew16:13-16pp – Mk 8:27-29; Lk 9:18-20

“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And I am with you always, to the end of time.” Matthew 28:18-20

Jesus said:
"But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; 10 in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned. 12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.” John 16

I pray that one day all will know these things to be true. And indeed they will.

 

[ChrisB103]

As a parent of 4 children, 2 of them teenagers :stretcher:, I used to fall in the trap of not getting into an argument or taking the time to explain things to my children and I used to end the discussion with something like: “Because I am the head of the household and I say so” or “Because I say so”.

I have abandoned my “old” ways and I have been taking the time to explain and present my position on certain subject matters and why some rules are in place and why some principles need to be followed.

Needless to say, the response from my children has been drastic… for the better!

They feel respected and given the opportunity to present their case. On some instances, I’ve had to retract and admit that I was too harsh or unreasonable with some things.

Lately, I have been reading several threads (No I am not going to list them for the sake of argument, if you can’t see them there’s no point in arguing over them. Because I say so! lol) where the main argument is:

Who has the authority to declare heresy in the Protestant?
Who has the authority to establish the books of the bible in the Protestant?
Who has the authority to interpret the bible in the Protestant?
etc, etc, etc…

Clearly a book doesn’t interpret itself.
Sola scriptura is annulled by sola scriptura.

The tendency of some non-catholic believers to reject anything that is Catholic is just… wrong.

All this looks like a really big grudge between a parent and a child. The prodigal son history repeating itself. Only that instead of taking all the inheritance money, the prodigal son took “some” books of the bible.

Now I believe the fight started way before the Reformation and it just went downhill form there. The great schism, for those that like to point to what exactly I’m referring to.

So, going back to my point, instead of reading threads for an honest and merciful invitation to dialog (In my little time on these forums, only PJM and Patrick567 extend a merciful and educational conversation, following in the steps of 1 Peter 3:8), all I see is that I believe that was what provoked the Schism and the Reformation in the first place.

I can’t help but think of Matthew 3:7-9
[bibledrb]Matthew 3:7-9[/bibledrb]

John the Baptist, clearly and rightfully declares that God can raise His children even from stones!

Paul clearly demonstrates his frustration while preaching to the Jews, because of their “stiff necks”, read stubbornness.

How many times do we need to be humbled in order to clearly understand?

In my limited understanding, I don’t see a solution. I do rest and know that our Lord does.

Please keep me in your prayers as I keep you in mine.

God Bless,

Jose

PS - Just rumbling around some thoughts… tomorrow, I’ll probably realize I didn’t make much sense! lol. Anyways, sometimes it help to talk out loud… or type

This is certainly not all meaningless rambling. It’s an incredibly important topic. Do you believe the Catholic Church has the authority that it claims Jesus gave it? Why or why not?

Also, as you know, Christ prayed that we would all be one as he and the Father are one (John 17). What does this unity mean and how do we work to achieve it?

PS - If this post is off topic from what you intended feel free to ignore it. God bless!

 

[Jim_Dandy]

The Catholic Church is 2,000 years old. The Catholic Church wrote the New Testament and formed the Bible. The Church is centuries older than the Bible. The Church’s authority comes from God. “He who hears you hears me . . .” Luke 10:16. “I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven . . .” Mt 16:18-19.

There are thousands of conflicting and competing Protestant ecclesial communities (there’s only one Church), All of them are based on the same 66-book Bible cut by Martin Luther, but no two of them agree about what the Bible means. Every Protestant is his own authority and can decide for himself what he thinks the Bible means. It’s called “private interpretation.”

Original Christianity was not based on the Bible, but on the Catholic Church. The New Testament consists of 27 of the Church’s own writings. The Church is not based on the NT; rather, the NT is based on the teaching Church.

We all need to know our faith so we can teach it to our children, including the history of Christianity and of the Bible…

 

[Isaiah45_9]

This is certainly not all meaningless rambling. It’s an incredibly important topic. Do you believe the Catholic Church has the authority that it claims Jesus gave it? Why or why not?

Also, as you know, Christ prayed that we would all be one as he and the Father are one (John 17). What does this unity mean and how do we work to achieve it?

PS - If this post is off topic from what you intended feel free to ignore it. God bless!

I believe that the Catholic Church has the authority given by Jesus to the Apostles. That the Apostles carried on the mandate of Jesus Christ and their teachings were passed down to the Church Fathers.

To be honest, I don’t quite understand what happend after the 900s. Clearly things changed with the men of the Church. I am still studying this subject to great extent and I am unable, at this time, to express an opinion on the matter.

Christ’s prayer on John 17:20-26 (If this is the prayer you are referring to) is for all the believers that the Father draws to Christ. For us to be perfect in ONE (Which is Jesus).

[bibledrb]John 17:20-26[/bibledrb]

Paul elaborates on this in Philippians 1:27-29.

[bibledrb]Philippians 1:27-29[/bibledrb]

I also believe that the Catholic Church is responsible to preserve the writing of what we now call the Holy Bible with the Old and New Testament. Therefore, when I read the Bible I know and understand that it is true and valid because the Church, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, made it available to me.

I believe that if the Septuagint was good enough for Jesus and the Apostles to quote from, who am I to say the opposite?

I don’t like that there are different Canons. I believe we should have the Septuagint and the New Testament as a common Canon amongst Christians.

I also need to keep in mind that as men, we are ALL prone to err.

How do we work to achieve it?..

Philippians 1:27-29?

This is something that troubles my soul and I pray every single day to discern.

Since I just read Philippians, I remember how much I like how it starts:

[bibledrb]Philippians 1:2[/bibledrb]



In Him,

Jose

 

[Evan]

As a parent of 4 children, 2 of them teenagers :stretcher:, I used to fall in the trap of not getting into an argument or taking the time to explain things to my children and I used to end the discussion with something like: “Because I am the head of the household and I say so” or “Because I say so”.

I have abandoned my “old” ways and I have been taking the time to explain and present my position on certain subject matters and why some rules are in place and why some principles need to be followed.

Needless to say, the response from my children has been drastic… for the better!

They feel respected and given the opportunity to present their case. On some instances, I’ve had to retract and admit that I was too harsh or unreasonable with some things.

This is very much how the Church teaches. An theological idea is presented by theologians. The Church then considers the question (often for 100 years). And if the idea is determined to be heretical, the Church explains where the theologian when wrong.

Many ideas are not decided during the time of the originator. They will often write, ‘if this speculation is found to be heretical, I am willing to follow where the Church leads’.

The Church does not quickly dismiss heretical ideas, but once the truth is found, it continues to teach the truth. So if a new person comes along with an old idea, the Church repeats what it said the first time the idea is proposed.

For example: all the ideas expressed by Luther on the door in Germany the Church has accepted as true. But before the decision was reached Luther had gone farther and rejected the idea that the Church had the authority to make a ruling on what he had said. And that is what he was condemned for. (See the “Roots of the Reformation” by Karl Adam).

 

[ChrisB103]

I believe that the Catholic Church has the authority given by Jesus to the Apostles. That the Apostles carried on the mandate of Jesus Christ and their teachings were passed down to the Church Fathers.

To be honest, I don’t quite understand what happend after the 900s. Clearly things changed with the men of the Church. I am still studying this subject to great extent and I am unable, at this time, to express an opinion on the matter.

Christ’s prayer on John 17:20-26 (If this is the prayer you are referring to) is for all the believers that the Father draws to Christ. For us to be perfect in ONE (Which is Jesus).

In Him,

Jose

I admire your fervent search, and I pray that the Lord guides you to all Truth.

As Catholics, we don’t believe it’s possible for the Church to stray from the Truth. We find this to be part of God’s promise to never leave us orphans (John 14:18). Also, we would look to Matthew 16:18 to know that the Church can never be overcome by the gates of hell. Do you have any thoughts on this?