Aux Bishop who outranks his Ordinary

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When the Holy Father first named José Gregorio Rosa Chávez a Cardinal, it was assumed (at least in the discussions I saw) that he would either be given a curia post or moved to his own diocese. His Eminence has now been a cardinal for almost a year and remains an auxiliary bishop in San Salvador under a non-cardinal archbishop. This must be a pretty unprecedented situation in the Church?
 
AFAIK, the office of a cardinal doesent add that much to the power of a cleric. He is still outranked by his Ordinary by virtue of his auxiliary nature.
 
It is still a very odd situation. Even if the archbishop, as ordinary, has greater authority in that particular archdiocese, the cardinal auxiliary bishop technically outranks him in precedence.
 
I just have to say…these conversations are just the type of thing that Pope Francis doesn’t care for.
Who cares?
Are they good priests and doing good work in the vineyard? That’s all the really matters.
 
Ehhh…

It could lead to more serious troubles- What if they have different interpeterations of AL, or one likes TLM and the other hates it…
 
Cardinals must be ordained as Bishops, but other than voting for pope (if under the age limit) and serving in positions at the pleasure of the pope, they do not have real ecclesiastic authority allowing them to “out rank” a bishop of a given diocese within that diocese.

So, in this case there is no conflict. The Cardinal’s responsibilities and obedience to the Pope do not interfere with his duties as auxiliary Bishop and responsibility to obey his ordinary.
 
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Nah…just the type of stuff that makes people of other faiths think we’re nuts.
Its precisely the different interpretations that everyone should avoid. Personal opinion is not to be put over what the Pontiff teaches anyway.
That’s the WHOLE problem with that AL debate.
People not truly absorbing what Francis is saying. Just rushing to judgment.
but that’s another thread.
 
By your logic, the office of cardinal and the whole notion of precedence should be done away with completely. Yet that isn’t the case.
If I’m wrong for even bringing the topic up, why did the Holy Father appoint this auxiliary bishop as a cardinal? Clearly he thinks it means something.

I’m just curious. I’m not saying that its a problem or a key issue in the life of the Church.
 
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Yes, this is all technically true… but it is still exceedingly odd. I know Pope Francis has his own style and doesn’t seem that interested in precedent, but it isn’t usually how its done.
 
Ehhh…

It could lead to more serious troubles- What if they have different interpeterations of AL, or one likes TLM and the other hates it…
It won’t lead to any problems if the Aux. Bishop knows his place. The Arch Bishop is the head of his Diocese regardless of the fact that the AUx. Bishop is a Cardinal. I have to say I think Tulitas is correct in saying that PF would not like these types of statements.
 
Yes, this is all technically true… but it is still exceedingly odd. I know Pope Francis has his own style and doesn’t seem that interested in precedent, but it isn’t usually how its done.
More important is how the new Cardinal handles the double-edged responsibilities, and how his Bishop does.

We should pray for the Cardinal, the Bishop, and the Pope.

Pax et bonum!
 
Cardinal is an honorary title that’s all. (Apart that the cardinals vote on who the next pope will be.)
 
Can’t a Parish Priest be made a Cardinal, technically? I know almost all of the Cardinals have been Bishops, but I don’t think that is a requirement. Am I wrong?

And he would not outrank his superior—he just can vote in the College of Cardinals.
 
Can’t a Parish Priest be made a Cardinal, technically? I know almost all of the Cardinals have been Bishops, but I don’t think that is a requirement. Am I wrong?

And he would not outrank his superior—he just can vote in the College of Cardinals.
For example, Fr. Avery Dulles was made a cardinal, he requested that he not be made a bishop. Since he was at Fordham, there is a possibility that there might have been a time when he was the only cardinal in New York.
 
This must be a pretty unprecedented situation in the Church?
I have never seen it before. The way this pope deals with cardinals is different, clearly, from this situation to those non-retirement age cardinals who don’t really have a full-time job.

As to the “rank” of cardinal–cardinals have a certain number of papally-granted “privileges” but I’d have to review the list to see if any of them could lead to a conflict with his own diocesan bishop. I don’t think so but there might be a minor issue here or there.

Fundamentally, a cardinal is an adviser to, and elector of, the pope. This role can be fulfilled just fine no matter what the man’s “full time” position is. That being said, the general rule is that a Cardinal who is not a diocesan bishop is to live in Rome (c. 356), thereby limiting the possible conflicts…

Dan
 
A Cardinal is fundamentally a member of the clergy of the Church of Rome–it’s why even Cardinal’s with Sees outside Rome still get assigned a parish church in Rome.

In any event, in this case he thinks he was given this honor as a kind of proxy to honoring his friend Oscar Romero.
 
I’m inclined to agree that notions of rank and precedence are rarely helpful in the Church. It reminds of me of Queen Victoria having herself proclaimed Empress of India in order not to be outranked by her daughter, the Empress of Germany. Such concerns may be all well and good among the crowned heads of Europe, but they seem remote from the mission of the Church.

I’d think of it like a school (such as the school I went to, in fact) where the headmaster has only a bachelor’s degree, but many of his staff have master’s degrees and a few have PhDs. It’s not about one person outranking another; it’s about having different, but complementary, qualities in different spheres. The headmaster presumably has administrative and leadership skills that make him suited to that role, and the ordinary schoolmaster with a PhD will respect that (and probably doesn’t want to be a headmaster anyway). Meanwhile, the schoolmaster with a PhD will have certain academic expertise, and the headmaster will respect that too (again, he probably doesn’t want to be an academic). And like the bishop and the cardinal, they exist is different, albeit overlapping, spheres. While the schoolmaster with the PhD is first and foremost a staff member under the headmaster’s authority, he may also have sidelines in publishing articles or attending conferences, where his position as a lowly schoolmaster will be irrelevant. So the cardinal presumably has abilities that make a good cardinal, but maybe he isn’t particularly suited to being a diocesan bishop. I guess he respects the diocesan bishop’s authority as a diocesan bishop and the diocesan bishop respects the cardinal’s skills that make him useful to the Church in that capacity. No doubt they regard each other with brotherly love and not as rivals for power and prestige.
 
Until the 1917 codification of canon law, anyone could be a cardinal. In 1917, they limited it to priests and bishops.

In the early ‘60s, John XXIII changed it so that Cardinals would be bishops. Exceptions are allowed, but usually only for people like Dulles, ie over 80 and past the age to vote in conclave. Usually these are theologians, like Dulles, Congar, Grillmeier, etc. Francis also made John XXIII’s secretary a cardinal; Rosa Chavez is more like that since he was Romero’s choice for auxilary iirc.
 
By your logic, the office of cardinal and the whole notion of precedence should be done away with completely. Yet that isn’t the case.
If I’m wrong for even bringing the topic up, why did the Holy Father appoint this auxiliary bishop as a cardinal? Clearly he thinks it means something.

I’m just curious. I’m not saying that its a problem or a key issue in the life of the Church.
I do think this whole situation is out of the ordinary (according to today’s norms). However, you have to remember, there used to be lay Cardinals in the past, and even some Cardinals who were still in the seminary.

Pope Francis’ views regarding who becomes a Cardinal, in many ways, is closer to those of the middle ages, where Popes appointed people they trusted to be Cardinal (not to mention appointed people Cardinal for political reasons). In order words, Pope Francis has eliminated the tradition of appointing the Archbishops of select archdioceses as Cardinals.

And as far as precedence is concerned, no one except the Pope outranks a bishop in his own dioceses.

If the situation annoys anyone, I’m sure it’s the Cardinal who’s still an Aux Bishop.
 
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