Avoiding Catholic Marriage

[Goblin_Taters]

Just wondering about how many people here have never been to a Catholic marriage ceremony. I’m almost 25, and I’ve only been to one wedding (and it was Presbyterian!). I thought I was alone in this, but then I discovered that the first marriage ceremony one of my former professors attended was his own. Thus far in my life, I’ve attended many more funerals (Catholic and non-Catholic) than weddings. Actually, I don’t mind funerals. I like cemeteries, the procession of the coffin inside the church, the priest’s prayers and spraying with holy water. Maybe I should marry a Corpse Bride!

 

[puzzleannie]

are you avoiding Catholic marriage, as your title says? or avoiding marriage in general? or simply avoiding wedding ceremonies, Catholic or otherwise? if so, why, and why would you need to discuss it or justify your feelings?

 

[ltbpoe43]

I suspect your relatively young age keeps you from weddings as your friends or siblings are not yet married. Trust me they happen - check the papers - I don’t think folks are avoiding them at all as I cantor at quite a few of them - you are just not being invited. When I was your age the only 2 weddings I had been to were my older brothers.

Your statement on funerals really creeps me out. I suspect you haven’t experienced the loss of a truly close relative - the pain is unspeakable. While the funeral mass is reverent and somewhat comforting, the emotions are almost too much.

 

[Evan]

I’ve only been to two non-catholic marriages (in 50 years) but lots of catholic ones.

I’ve only been to 1 non-catholic funeral.

I find a non-catholic wedding a disapointment. It goes so fast that you wonder why get a wedding dress you will only wear for 15 minutes?

I love catholic funerals too. The focus (done properly) is on rebirth to eternal life. What a joyful time. The rememberance of the clean garment at baptism. The completion of a lifelong journey.

 

[lak611]

I tend to avoid wedding ceremonies, Catholic or Protestant, unless the bride or groom are close family members or friends. If they are not, then I just go to the reception. If they are just a co-worker or acquaintance, not a friend, then I skip everything and send a card.

For funerals, I only attend the funeral Mass or service if the deceased or his/her family are close to me. Otherwise, I just go to the wake.

 

[Sarabande]

I’ve been to a lot Catholic weddings because I’m usually hired to be a musician at them. In general, I enjoy wedding ceremonies - usually not the reception, unless it is for family.

I’ve done Protestant, Civil and Catholic weddings, and honestly, I find the Catholic ceremonies the most meaningful and spiritual - if the couple truly are getting married in the Church for the right reasons. I’ve done Catholic weddings where there was no sense of reverence or understanding of what was going on. They were just doing it because they thought the church was pretty or because their parents made them do it. For non-Catholic weddings it just seems so rushed no matter how meaningful the couple tries to make it. Some are done in 15-20 minutes and I’m left thinking, “That’s it?” It sometimes feels as if people can’t wait for it to be over so that they can go party, but that is probably true for both Catholic and non-Catholic weddings.

I always feel that the ceremony is the most important part of the day. It’s more important for me to attend the ceremony than the reception and unless I have a good reason, I personally would feel very rude to not attend a person’s ceremony and only come to the reception if I was invited. We actually had more people come to our ceremony than our reception. Some were invited, but couldn’t make it to the reception. Others were some of my former music students and their parents who wanted to see me get married and others were actually either parents of couple of our friends who just felt like coming to our wedding and then people who came in off the streets, even a few bums. The photographer got a photo of my husband shaking hands with one of the bums on our way out of the Cathedral. It was very sweet and we were so happy to have them all there.

I don’t know how you enjoy going to funerals, but perhaps you never lost anyone really close to you. But I get shakened up even if the person is someone I don’t know. It’s horriable seeing the family and loved ones suffering, even if the deceased is hopefully in a better place. I also do a lot of Catholic funerals and try to stay as emotionally disconnected as possible. It’s very hard to sing when you’re about to cry, so I’m very happy that most of the funerals I do are from the choir loft far away from the mourners. I’d be crying with them if I had to be up front. If you mean that you don’t mind funerals because it seems less about making it “the perfect day” and more centered on God and eternal life, then I understand.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I’ve only been to two non-Catholic weddings in my 55 years.

I love going to weddings, especially Catholic ones. It gives me great joy seeing a couple expressing their love before God, family and friends and asking for God’s blessing.

Jim

 

[Goblin_Taters]

Originally Posted by Sarabande:

I don’t know how you enjoy going to funerals, but perhaps you never lost anyone really close to you. But I get shakened up even if the person is someone I don’t know. It’s horriable seeing the family and loved ones suffering, even if the deceased is hopefully in a better place. I also do a lot of Catholic funerals and try to stay as emotionally disconnected as possible.

You know, thinking back, I don’t get very much saddened about the person who dies. What gets me sad is when I see family members crying. But still, I really like funerals! And cemeteries are one of my favorite, too. For the past several years, I’ve tried going to one several days a week. I like walking around, looking at the gravestones, sitting amongst the dead, thinking what the general ressurrection will be like here, eating lunch (Subway, McDonalds, Wendy’s, etc.), and so on. Deer pass through the park, and it’s so quiet, except when church music plays in the distance, or the the birds chirping. Oh yeah, my family was in the monument business for maybe 150 years. That my have something to do with my morbid obsession with cemeteries.

And hey, the one cemetery I go to is so uplifting that couples have their wedding photos taken there!

 

[lak611]

You know, thinking back, I don’t get very much saddened about the person who dies. What gets me sad is when I see family members crying. But still, I really like funerals! And cemeteries are one of my favorite, too. For the past several years, I’ve tried going to one several days a week. I like walking around, looking at the gravestones, sitting amongst the dead, thinking what the general ressurrection will be like here, eating lunch (Subway, McDonalds, Wendy’s, etc.), and so on. Deer pass through the park, and it’s so quiet, except when church music plays in the distance, or the the birds chirping. Oh yeah, my family was in the monument business for maybe 150 years. That my have something to do with my morbid obsession with cemeteries.

And hey, the one cemetery I go to is so uplifting that couples have their wedding photos taken there!

I like cemeteries too. I belong to a local group dedicated to the preservation of historic cemeteries. We are having a meeting next week to plan a big public event that will be held in the oldest public cemetery in Cleveland.

 

[Sarabande]

I like walking around, looking at the gravestones, sitting amongst the dead, thinking what the general ressurrection will be like here… Deer pass through the park, and it’s so quiet, except when church music plays in the distance. Oh yeah, my family was in the monument business for maybe 150 years. That my have something to do with my morbid obsession with cemeteries.

Yes, that could probably explain your obsession. Ha! Ha!

I don’t particularily enjoy funerals because of what I described in my above post, but I do like taking walks in cemetaries - only during the day, though. I still get spooked out even as an adult - yes I know it’s silly. We have a lot of very old cemetaries around here and as a little girl and teenager I used to walk around and wonder what the lives of those people now long gone were like while they were alive. I was especially interested in the lives of those who died young, especially girls or young women who were my age. I used to place flowers on their graves and reconstruct stories in my mind of who they were and what they looked like. I also would be so touched and saddened by the infant and baby graves in this one cemetary at this church I used to attend and placed flowers on their graves as well. (The bishop of that diocese just closed it down, unfortunately.) This one family lost 6 babies within one or two years that they were born. I can’t imagine what their parents felt, buring one baby after another. It was a rural farming community, so in the 1800s, I’m sure they had their children at home with little or no medical assistance. Anyway, that would make me dislike attending funerals even more.

 

[lak611]

I also would be so touched and saddened by the infant and baby graves in this one cemetary at this church I used to attend and placed flowers on their graves as well. (The bishop of that diocese just closed it down, unfortunately.)

I hope the cemetery is still there even if the parish has closed.

 

[Sarabande]

I hope the cemetery is still there even if the parish has closed.

It still is. The last mass was said there this past Sunday. It was my home away from home - the parish I used to attend whenever our family would go upstate for the weekends and summer vacations. I spent half my childhood there and hoped that I could bring my own future children there for mass one day as my grandparents and own parents did with me and my siblings. I wanted them to have the same experience as I did where I would break up my walks through the woods by making my way to the dirt road from the forest and taking a rest either in the church to pray or under the trees in the cemetary. The church was open 24 hrs. It was wonderful!

I wasn’t there for the last mass as I had to stay down in the city for opera rehearsals, but my family and husband were there. It was a very sad mass. The bishop in that diocese has been closing down parish and school left and right. The pastor of that parish (who was also the only priest and pastor for two other local parishes) fought to keep them open - at least one of them open. Everyone fought hard, but to no avail. That parish - St. Patrick’s Catholic Church was consecrated in the 1850s by St. John Newman. He travelled all the way from Philadelphia to Irish Hill through the Endless Mountains by horseback and foot to do that. (It’s a 3 1/2 hour drive from Philly). Anyway, I have a special connection to that church and cemetary and it kills me to know that it is no more. I hope that the bishop will see that many people in those three parishes will not be able to travel the hour or more to now get to mass especially during inclement weather. Everything is dirt road and hard to get around during the winter. We could at least walk to church where the parish was. It’s not fair to the older Catholics and and the rest of those devout who may not be able to attend mass as they would want to. And the thing was, it hardly cost the diocese anything to keep those churches open. The parishioners were doing their best to pay for things on their own and it’s not like the pastor was pushing for the shutdown, so no one understands it. But from what I hear, the bishop is from the same line of thinking as another former bishop in my own diocese and was very much into just closing down parishes left and right without thinking about the actual parishioners and the community. His actions really hurt many of the parish communities in my area and it looks like this bishop is doing the same thing. I’m sorry… I’m so depressed over this still.

 

[lak611]

It still is. The last mass was said there this past Sunday. It was my home away from home - the parish I used to attend whenever our family would go upstate for the weekends and summer vacations. I spent half my childhood there and hoped that I could bring my own future children there for mass one day as my grandparents and own parents did with me and my siblings. I wanted them to have the same experience as I did where I would break up my walks through the woods by making my way to the dirt road from the forest and taking a rest either in the church to pray or under the trees in the cemetary. The church was open 24 hrs. It was wonderful!

I wasn’t there for the last mass as I had to stay down in the city for opera rehearsals, but my family and husband were there. It was a very sad mass. The bishop in that diocese has been closing down parish and school left and right. The pastor of that parish (who was also the only priest and pastor for two other local parishes) fought to keep them open - at least one of them open. Everyone fought hard, but to no avail. That parish - St. Patrick’s Catholic Church was consecrated in the 1850s by St. John Newman. He travelled all the way from Philadelphia to Irish Hill through the Endless Mountains by horseback and foot to do that. (It’s a 3 1/2 hour drive from Philly). Anyway, I have a special connection to that church and cemetary and it kills me to know that it is no more. I hope that the bishop will see that many people in those three parishes will not be able to travel the hour or more to now get to mass especially during inclement weather. Everything is dirt road and hard to get around during the winter. We could at least walk to church where the parish was. It’s not fair to the older Catholics and and the rest of those devout who may not be able to attend mass as they would want to. And the thing was, it hardly cost the diocese anything to keep those churches open. The parishioners were doing their best to pay for things on their own and it’s not like the pastor was pushing for the shutdown, so no one understands it. But from what I hear, the bishop is from the same line of thinking as another former bishop in my own diocese and was very much into just closing down parishes left and right without thinking about the actual parishioners and the community. His actions really hurt many of the parish communities in my area and it looks like this bishop is doing the same thing. I’m sorry… I’m so depressed over this still.

I live in the city, and the same type of thing is happening here. Currently, the parishes have been put into clusters of about 5 or 6 per area. The bishop said that in those clusters, depending on the demographics, a certain number of parishes must close. However, he is not forcing any particular parish to close. The pastors of each parish in the cluster are supposed to come up with a plan and decide amongst themselves which parishes will close. It will not be as bad here for people to be able to get to church because many of the churches in the city are within blocks of each other. I can see the need to close parishes here in Cleveland because many of the inner-city parishes do not have any parishioners who live in the geographical boundaries. They have sentimental attachment to their childhood parish (which frequently was nationality based at the time) and drive many miles to attend; but their numbers are so few (only about 100 people), so there is no money to support the parish.

 

[Goblin_Taters]

That’s sad. I remember seeing infant graves when I was in Lancaster County, PA. It was sad.

Yeah, I don’t think I’ll ever be at a Catholic wedding.

 

[Goblin_Taters]

Originally Posted by lak611:

I can see the need to close parishes here in Cleveland because many of the inner-city parishes do not have any parishioners who live in the geographical boundaries. They have sentimental attachment to their childhood parish (which frequently was nationality based at the time) and drive many miles to attend; but their numbers are so few (only about 100 people), so there is no money to support the parish.

My grandparents live around Cleveland, and they told me the same thing (although they’re not Catholic). It’s too bad. I know similiar things are probably going to happen soon in the Diocese of Steubenville, and I’m sure other diocese in Ohio and around the country.

 

[lak611]

My grandparents live around Cleveland, and they told me the same thing (although they’re not Catholic). It’s too bad. I know similiar things are probably going to happen soon in the Diocese of Steubenville, and I’m sure other diocese in Ohio and around the country.

It is well-known that parishes will be closing because it has been all over the news here, on TV and in the paper. However, it is not just the Catholic churches that are closing. In Lakewood (a suburb of Cleveland where a lot of Catholic parishes are expected to close), there have already been closures and mergers of Lutheran churches. I also have a friend who is a Methodist minister, and he told me that he had been the pastor of a church that closed. I know someone who belonged to an Episcopal church that closed; she became Lutheran afterwards. The decline in population has affected all of the churches. It is just more noticeable among the Catholic churches because of the media coverage.

 

[Goblin_Taters]

Originally Posted by Lak611:

It is well-known that parishes will be closing because it has been all over the news here, on TV and in the paper. However, it is not just the Catholic churches that are closing. In Lakewood (a suburb of Cleveland where a lot of Catholic parishes are expected to close), there have already been closures and mergers of Lutheran churches. I also have a friend who is a Methodist minister, and he told me that he had been the pastor of a church that closed. I know someone who belonged to an Episcopal church that closed; she became Lutheran afterwards. The decline in population has affected all of the churches. It is just more noticeable among the Catholic churches because of the media coverage.

One thing I noticed when in the Cleveland area was tons of churches. I remember counting 4-5 churches in just one small stretch of road. There are even churches in the shopping complexes! My grandparents go to a small Lutheran church. They didn’t inform me that their own Lutheran church was merging. Do you know which Lutheran church synod is merging its churches? I well imagine, as you note, that all these churches are being hit hard because of the population decline. But, you know, it might be more than that, too. The other day I was in a newly built up metro area. Thousands, millions of people, and barely any churches.

 

[lak611]

One thing I noticed when in the Cleveland area was tons of churches. I remember counting 4-5 churches in just one small stretch of road. There are even churches in the shopping complexes! My grandparents go to a small Lutheran church. They didn’t inform me that their own Lutheran church was merging. Do you know which Lutheran church synod is merging its churches? I well imagine, as you note, that all these churches are being hit hard because of the population decline. But, you know, it might be more than that, too. The other day I was in a newly built up metro area. Thousands, millions of people, and barely any churches.

I don’t know if the Lutheran churches that closed/merged were ELCA or LCMS. This happened a couple of years ago. I do not know if there are any current plans to close or merge any other Lutheran churches at this time.

I think the reason that you see fewer churches in newer areas is because years ago most were nationality based, even if there were not Catholic. The Irish had their church, the Germans had theirs, etc. This was true of most of the nationalities. For instance, one Lutheran church still has services in German; so does one Catholic church. Nowadays, most people are not first-generation Americans, so they have assimilated into the American culture and no longer have any connection to the ethnic churches. Everybody worships in one church regardless of nationality, so there is no need for a church on every block which is for a specific nationality.

 

[Goblin_Taters]

Originally Posted by lak611:

I think the reason that you see fewer churches in newer areas is because years ago most were nationality based, even if there were not Catholic. The Irish had their church, the Germans had theirs, etc. This was true of most of the nationalities. For instance, one Lutheran church still has services in German; so does one Catholic church. Nowadays, most people are not first-generation Americans, so they have assimilated into the American culture and no longer have any connection to the ethnic churches. Everybody worships in one church regardless of nationality, so there is no need for a church on every block which is for a specific nationality.

That’s a good point. The thing that surprised me, however, was that the churches I saw in the Cleveland area did not appear to be old, ethnic churches, but newer, larger churches–as big as warehouses.

 

[THutch04]

I’ve been to a few weddings and funerals, and to be honest, as strange as it may sound, I think I’d put them both on the same level in terms of how spiritually moving they are. It’s wonderful to see the happiness of a newly married couple who has just professed their love in front of God, but at the same time the way funerals are conducted (at least the ones I’ve been to) are so uplifting and beautiful, really emphasizing the resurrection of the body and eternal life. I wouldn’t say I “enjoy” them, but I will say that I’ve had very few experiences where I’ve felt as close to God as I do when I’ve attended funerals, even when it has been for someone who I was really close to.