Awesome Pictures: The Most Beautiful Thing This Side of Heaven!

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This is the pan-European offering of Christmas Day Holy Mass. It was broadcast on 25th December 2004 for all the sick and housebound across Europe. It is real alright. Real everything. We had an Irish commentator, Fr. Dermod mc Carthy, who always gives commentry on European Broadcasts of the Holy Mass or on Vatican events. This good priest was there on our Irish home station translating it all for us live on Christmas morning.

Actually I watched it in horror until I could take no more. Every Christmas day Mass is broadcast on European relay in all European Countries and as normal I tuned in for what I thought would be a heart warming celebration of the Holy Mass.

NOTHING can describe to you my horror at what I witnessed. Even the pictures shown here do no justice to the desecration that took place.

Interesting to note that all the folks wo took part, including the priests, were described as acteurs in French…ACTORS in English. :mad:

My friends…France again.

I would suggest you email them with your sentiments of horror also… at lejourduseigneur.com/detail.do?noArticle=345&id_key=34
 
This is craziness for sure. But the problem is not with the *Missa Normativa. *That page mocks the Mass just like the people in the pictures although not nearly as bad. Where are those pictures even from? Are those actual priests? How do we know if these aren’t just anti-Catholic circus performers? What year were these pictures taken? Several ideas slipped into that page are just silly. The New Religion? There are heretics and dissidents like there ALWAYS have been. But the New Order, is not a new religion! The council didn’t make a new religion. The idea that the brutality shown in those pictures is directly related to the Novus Ordo is absurd. It is quite obvious that those pictures are an abomination. Trying to pass them off as typical of the Novus Ordo is completely dishonest. It is clear that is NOT was DominvsVobiscvm was trying to do, but that appears to be the intent of the webpage he linked.

DominvsVobiscvm, you strike me as someone quite like myself. I’m still angry at and trying to forgive the Church for 12 years of CCE and never being taught anything Catholic. I’m constantly hurt by all the abuses of liturgy, doctrine, and people that continue today. I desperately seek unity with the SSPX and other schismatics who I so much sympathize with. But this can’t be done by spreading that kind of inflammatory propaganda.

All things being the same, if the Tridentine Mass had remained untouched after Vatican II and there was no Novus Ordo, then you probably would have seen the Tridentine Mass abused in this way. Yes there is a serious problem here and we as laity must be encouraging one another and the clergy to respond to this problem charitably, forcefully, and effectively. The problem is not the New Order or Vatican II. The longer Satan keeps us focused on those things, the more we hurt rather than help the matter.

I hope I didn’t come off too harsh. I just want DominvsVobiscvm to see that his post didn’t convey the idea I think he was trying to express, at least to me.

Pax et bonum
 
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luke2219:
This is craziness for sure. But the problem is not with the *Missa Normativa. *That page mocks the Mass just like the people in the pictures although not nearly as bad. Where are those pictures even from? Are those actual priests? How do we know if these aren’t just anti-Catholic circus performers? What year were these pictures taken? Several ideas slipped into that page are just silly. The New Religion? There are heretics and dissidents like there ALWAYS have been. But the New Order, is not a new religion! The council didn’t make a new religion. The idea that the brutality shown in those pictures is directly related to the Novus Ordo is absurd. It is quite obvious that those pictures are an abomination. Trying to pass them off as typical of the Novus Ordo is completely dishonest. It is clear that is NOT was DominvsVobiscvm was trying to do, but that appears to be the intent of the webpage he linked.

DominvsVobiscvm, you strike me as someone quite like myself. IÕm still angry at and trying to forgive the Church for 12 years of CCE and never being taught anything Catholic. IÕm constantly hurt by all the abuses of liturgy, doctrine, and people that continue today. I desperately seek unity with the SSPX and other schismatics who I so much sympathize with. But this can’t be done by spreading that kind of inflammatory propaganda.

All things being the same, if the Tridentine Mass had remained untouched after Vatican II and there was no Novus Ordo, then you probably would have seen the Tridentine Mass abused in this way. Yes there is a serious problem here and we as laity must be encouraging one another and the clergy to respond to this problem charitably, forcefully, and effectively. The problem is not the New Order or Vatican II. The longer Satan keeps us focused on those things, the more we hurt rather than help the matter.

I hope I didn’t come off too harsh. I just want DominvsVobiscvm to see that his post didn’t convey the idea I think he was trying to express, at least to me.

Pax et bonum
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Just more of the same Church bashing. It is not the Mass of the Catholic Church, it is those who abuse it and those who allow it to be abused.
 
The Traditional Mass is the one True Mass, codified by SAINT POPE PIUS V and at the Council of Trent so that two masses at any two places are always said exactly the same. What you have now is a jumble hodge podge of people holding hands and old ladies handing out the body of christ into the hands of the laity, which was a Protestant ritual of denying the real presence.
 
jtnova:
What you have now is a … handing out the body of christ into the hands of the laity, which was a Protestant ritual of denying the real presence.
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What narrow minded rubbish my good friend.

In this mind you also claim that the early Church denied the Presence of Christ when they received in the hand then???

Around the year A.D. 390, Cyril of Jerusalem indicated that the early Church practiced Communion in the hand when he instructed his audience: “Approaching, therefore, come not with thy wrists extended, or thy fingers open; but make thy left hand as if a throne for thy right, which is on the eve of receiving the King. And having hallowed thy palm, receive the body of Christ, saying after it, ‘Amen.’ Then after thou hast with carefulness hallowed thine eyes by the touch of the holy body, partake thereof; giving heed lest thou lose any of it; for what thou losest is a loss to thee as it were from one of thine own members. For tell me, if anyone gave thee gold dust, wouldst thou not with all precaution keep it fast, being on thy guard against losing any of it, and suffering loss?” (Catechetical Lectures 23:22).

Maybe a read of decent Church history and the early Church Fathers is in order for you in the New Year. The Church existed and fulfilled its mission before the Tridentine Rite and will continue to exist and fulfill its mission with the New Rite.

Always the one Mass.
 
Novusordowatch.org seems pretty controversial, perhaps even schismatic, although I haven’t surfed it all.

But heterodox?

Seriously, what’s the heresy?
 
“NovusOrdoWatch” is a very unorthodox website. There’s no doubt about it. It’s sedevacandist.

That having been said, truth is truth, no matter where it comes from.

The truth, and I’ve spent years denying it, the *Missa Normativa * is easily bastardized and abusedm much more so than the Tridentine Mass. When celebrated properly, the Missa Normativa is perfectly valid and pleasing to God. Problem is, it’s been constructed in such a way that its more prone to abuses than, say, the Tridentine Mass.

People think that any criticism of the Magisterium is heterodox; it’s simply not the case.
 
DominvsVobiscvm said:
“NovusOrdoWatch” is a very unorthodox website. There’s no doubt about it. It’s sedevacandist.

That having been said, truth is truth, no matter where it comes from.

The truth, and I’ve spent years denying it, the *Missa Normativa *is easily bastardized and abusedm much more so than the Tridentine Mass. When celebrated properly, the Missa Normativa is perfectly valid and pleasing to God. Problem is, it’s been constructed in such a way that its more prone to abuses than, say, the Tridentine Mass.

People think that any criticism of the Magisterium is heterodox; it’s simply not the case.
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This is absolutely appalling! Is this an annual event? If so, who sanctioned it?
 
The truth, and I’ve spent years denying it, the *Missa Normativa * is easily bastardized and abusedm much more so than the Tridentine Mass. When celebrated properly, the Missa Normativa is perfectly valid and pleasing to God. Problem is, it’s been constructed in such a way that its more prone to abuses than, say, the Tridentine Mass
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I agree with that statement. Since there are so many options, indults, things with experimental status, and it takes more than a few different books to even figure out if something is an abue or not. But we need to focus on ending the abuses and not attacking the Mass itself and spreading doubt as to the validity of the current Mass, Pope, or previous council.

Pax
 
It is unfair to point at the nuttiness of fringe elements as an arguement against proper celebration of the Mass.

It would be just as unfair to point at the more serious problem of the fringe “traditionalists” who are so Catholic they seperate from the Catholic Church, as an arguement against the TLM.

Still, we must support the Mass and always strive for dignity in whatever Mass we attend.
 
What, exactly, was the point and purpose of having the Mass in “circus”? If it were mainly just a special celebration for the performers, I don’t see what the problem is. But if they were trying to make some sort of show of things, I would wonder why and what their reasoning was.
 
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chicago:
What, exactly, was the point and purpose of having the Mass in “circus”? If it were mainly just a special celebration for the performers, I don’t see what the problem is. But if they were trying to make some sort of show of things, I would wonder why and what their reasoning was.
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Chicago,

I suspect that this is precisely what it was - the offering of Mass for the circus troupe, offered by priests who are part of a particular ministry to “show people”, the Circus and Traveling Show Apostolate, coordinated by the Pontifical Council for the Pastoral Care of Migrants and Itinerant People to provide for the pastoral needs of those whose lifestyle offers unique obstacles to their full participation in the life of the Church as we would ordinarily experience it. See:

Circus Chaplain

Chaplain to Ringling Brothers

I have had the opportunity to stand in sawdust, surrounded by roustabouts, operators, gamers, chow hall cooks, and other carnies and participate in a Mass offered on the surface of what would, in a few hours, be the playing surface of a “joint”, carnival lingo for a game. I saw as much reverence there as I’ve experienced in many magnificently appointed churches.

I think it is well to remember that the altar, whether it be the hood of a jeep in Iraq or an elephant pedestal in a circus tent, is made holy by the presence on its surface of the antimension. God is somewhat less concerned than we, I suspect, about whether the musical accompaniment is an organ or “profane drums” as the novusordo site termed them.

Many years,

Neil
 
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Kielbasi:
Novusordowatch.org seems pretty controversial, perhaps even schismatic, although I haven’t surfed it all.

But heterodox?

Seriously, what’s the heresy?
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This site is schismatic, they even call the Holy Catholic Church the “Novus Ordo Church”. Thus they don’t consider themselves as members of that church and are schismatics.

Werner
 
Irish Melkite:
Chicago,

I suspect that this is precisely what it was - the offering of Mass for the circus troupe, offered by priests who are part of a particular ministry to “show people” (as I recollect frequently combined with that for migrant peoples) that is actively supported by the Church to provide for the pastoral needs of those whose lifestyle offers unique obstacles to their full participation in the life of the Church as we would ordinarily experience it.

I have had the opportunity to stand in sawdust, surrounded by roustabouts, operators, gamers, chow hall cooks, and other carnies and participate in a Mass offered on the surface of what would, in a few hours, be the playing surface of a “joint”, carnival lingo for a game. I saw as much reverence there as I’ve experienced in many magnificently appointed churches.

I think it is well to remember that the altar, whether it be the hood of a jeep in Iraq or an elephant pedestal in a circus tent, is made holy by the presence on its surface of the antimension. God is somewhat less concerned than we, I suspect, about whether the musical accompaniment is an organ or “profane drums” as the novusordo site termed them.

Many years,

Neil
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Good post!
Jesus said go to all people and preach my word, so why not go to circus people and have a mass for them!

Is a mass held in a jail held for prisoners bad because it is held in prison?
St. Paul says “To the pure, all things are pure; but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their mind and their conscience are defiled.”

Those who really think the Holy Sacrament is desecrated by an elephant stool should keep that in mind

Werner
 
Check out this link and you will be amazed!

traditio.com/nos.htm

Heretical or Not, this is what is happening today in our Churches, due to Vatican II, the liberal policies of Bishops and in some cases our Vicar, and the New Mass, which ALLOWS experiementation. The Traditional Mass was codified for many reasons as it was guided and instituted by our Lord himself, but also so that no masses said at any two places would ever be different.

I am tired of people calling conservative and Traditionals “schismatics” when it is actually the other way around, as we are adhering to the faith and canon law, and it was the Pope and misguided bishops who, wanting to appease their Protestant and Jewish bretheren did away with 70% of the TLM and replaced it with circus elephants. Ask yourself, who is keeping the faith and who is heretical?
 
jtnova:
Check out this link and you will be amazed!

traditio.com/nos.htm
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JT,

Yes, I am amazed that this site refers to the Mass as a “Mess” and that among the “abuses” that they cite is a Mass celebrated in Iraq, a war zone, in which the chaplain doing so is wearing vestments that are camouflaged in color - right, wear something bright, think of it as kindness to the eyes of a sniper trying to sight in on you.

Additionally, “female priestesses” are pictured as if that was something which could only have come about with the advent of the Novus Ordo - oh yeah, I forgot, women are constitutionally incapable of learning Latin, so it could never have happened had we retained the Tridentine Mass.

You people are truly ridiculous.

Many years,

Neil
 
there are masses in private homes in rural areas with the altar no more than a card table… in outdoor locations with the tailgate of a pickup as the altar…

why don’t we look for reasons to have a problem here… i guess i don’t get it… sorry :cool:
 
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