Awkward family problem: engagement of divorcees

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If it was me (and I’ve been in this situation, my brother married 3 times), I would go to show your love. You aren’t going to change his mind, it is made up. You are family and family are there for one another whether they agree or not. Down the road, your brother may be more open to listening. I realize nobody else here will agree but that is what I have done and believe to be the best way to handle it. Of course, praying for him goes without saying.
 
It just occurred to me that there may well be a toast at this family meal this coming weekend. In that case, I would have to raise my glass with the rest of the family members. How can I do that?

I might just make alternative arrangements and go away somewhere that day.

There has been no communication between my brother and me about this particular issue since I learned of the engagement a few days ago, although we have had email communication about a separate matter.
 
I would send them an email ahead of time explaining how you feel in regards to how you practice Catholicism and the space this has put you in. Let them know at the end of the email that you will support them past that but you needed to make your opinion known and at least make sure that as one Catholic to another the correct Catholic teaching was presented to your brother.

Then be a little brother. God blesss.
 
joanofarc2008 said:
I would send them an email ahead of time explaining how you feel in regards to how you practice Catholicism and the space this has put you in. Let them know at the end of the email that you will support them past that but you needed to make your opinion known and at least make sure that as one Catholic to another the correct Catholic teaching was presented to your brother.

Then be a little brother. God blesss.
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What would you say in the email? By support them past it, do you mean go to the meal and so on?
 
I’m sort of skeptical of the “going, but not approving” approach. Isn’t there to some degree scandal associated with your mere presence at this event? Although people can’t know your heart, and you might not raise your glass to a toast (which no one will notice anyway), most people will equate you being there with you approving (if they are even thinking about the fact that this is an immoral engagement, which is doubtful). Either way it will take a statement of some kind, either while in attendance or as a reason for your absence. The statement being made while in attendance will be more difficult, I’d imagine.

I’d also say that not going is doesn’t mean you aren’t showing love. The most loving thing is to want people to be holy, and since this marriage would be adulterous, if you decided not to attend the dinner it would also be out of love. Love doesn’t = people always being pleased with what you do. Christ Himself often said difficult things which drove people away because of their hardness of heart. There is no guarantee that being “nice” to people (not causing a ruckus) will bring them back any faster. Sometimes you have to keep the faith and not compromise your values.

If people wouldn’t listen to Christ, God Himself, even after they saw Him cure the sick and heal the blind and promise them eternal life, why should people be convinced by those who hold on to the hope that if they are just a little nicer people will eventually come around?

I don’t envy your position at all, but the fact that you are concerned about something that has become so commonplace is hopeful sign for us all
 
I had a few ideas down… But I lost it, and now have to go…

I suppose you could always wish for them the best… Which means, you wish for them to get their acts together, and get things straightened out…
 
3675864 said:
What would you say in the email? By support them past it, do you mean go to the meal and so on?
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Dear ,

I wamted to say that in times like these some times need to get said which may be difficult. Let me start by saying I love you both and I would like to say that I completely support this wedding. If all other things were equal I would be. Unfortunately I think there may be some teachings of our shared of faith that maybe you have missed that are very important.

{Explain teaching here}

Now that you know how I feel you know why I am in a difficult position. However, I do want you to be happy. I will be there for you as your brother at the dinner and in the future and I will not mention this unless you have questions or would like my help in pursuing an decree of nullity in your past marriage. If this should happen I will of course do anything I can to assist you. I love you and God bless you.

Signed,

This is a start - you can adapt it and change it from there to soften it.
 
What my husband and I did was offer to help with the annulment in any way. Sometimes there is opportunity for family members to testify.

So you can say things like:

“You must be really excited to have found each other. I hope the annulment process doesn’t drag out for a long time so that you can get married sooner rather than later. Can I help in any way?”

It’s loving, faithful to the Church and non-judgmental, and it acknowledges their personal happiness without condoning remarriage without annulment.
 
I will soon be facing a similar situation with my own brother. Here’s what I plan to do:

I will speak with him and him alone, sometime well ahead of the wedding. I don’t feel its my place to educate her. It’s his choice if he wishes to share the discussion with her later.

I will express myself very carefully. I want our relationship to continue, even beyond this difficult conversation. “As you know, brother, I live my Catholic faith in a pretty committed manner. IF I WAS IN YOUR SHOES, HERE IS WHAT I WOULD DO.” I would then make sure he knows what exactly the Church teaching regarding divorce and remarriage. Many Catholics are very misinformed about what annulment means. I would end the discussion by saying “I love you, I will always be your sister, and whatever you decide about this issue, you may change your mind one day. At that time, I hope you’ll be comfortable coming to me, and I will do everything I can to help you navigate your way through the annulment process”

I will not involve other family members in the discussion - mom, dad etc. It’s between my brother and me.

I will not assume that whatever my brother decides now precludes a reversion to the fullness of his faith, one day.

Maybe I have a different idea of the meaning of “love the sinner, hate the sin”? 🤷
 
First of all offering support so that one day they may have a change of heart IMO is NOT a good idea. Just because they apply for an annulment does not guarantee one. You could be ‘supporting them’ only to find out one of them still has a valid marriage

Second, I can relate to being shunned by tthe family for my beliefs. It is NO fun but my faith is too important to compromise.

So, what do you say when this woman walks into the house. A simple ‘Hi’. When asked to congratulate them, simply ‘I am sure you don’t want to hear about my religous beliefs so let’s talk about something else.’ Use the broken record tactic ‘I respect your right as an adult to make your decision and I want respect for my decision to be true to my Catholic beliefs’

If you know you brother does not want to hear it, chances are he knows what you are thinking and you will not have to spell it out. If they give you a hard time about being Catholic simply politely repeat ‘As I have said before I respect your opinion and I respect mine again.’

CM
 
3675864 said:
I am nearly 30!

The meal this weekend will be in celebration of the announcement of the engagement. If I don’t attend, there will be a lot of anger directed my way by my parents and my brother in particular. It might not be pretty. I don’t relish the thought.
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I’m not sure you have addressed this already. Our your parents practicing Catholics, or Catholic in name only? Do they go to Mass? Do they understand the gravity of the situation? They should be more worried about the soul of their son, then spending time being angry at you. Can you not talk to your parents before this dinner and about your concerns? Have you done this already? If so, what did they say?

Now as for the dinner. Personally, I’d walk up, give them BOTH a big (((HUG)) as would be acceptable as a welcoming gesture, and not say anything at all. I’m sure your brother and this woman would see that as a kind gesture and not worry as much about your words. I don’t think I’d start saying things about your concerns at this dinner. That’s just asking for trouble. I’d contact your brother either before or after the dinner.

While your brother had time to get an annulment has your parents or you ever officially mentioned it to him? Yes, he’s an adult, but you are still family and perhaps he hasn’t given it much thought one way or the other.

This is a difficult situation, but he’s a grown up and personally, I’d go to both the ceremony and the reception, BUT only after I had given the truth to my brother at an appropriate time beforehand. You can be there because you love him, not because you agree with him. Just make sure that is very clear to him.
 
heart4home said:
I’m not sure you have addressed this already. Our your parents practicing Catholics, or Catholic in name only? Do they go to Mass? Do they understand the gravity of the situation? They should be more worried about the soul of their son, then spending time being angry at you. Can you not talk to your parents before this dinner and about your concerns? Have you done this already? If so, what did they say?

Now as for the dinner. Personally, I’d walk up, give them BOTH a big (((HUG)) as would be acceptable as a welcoming gesture, and not say anything at all. I’m sure your brother and this woman would see that as a kind gesture and not worry as much about your words. I don’t think I’d start saying things about your concerns at this dinner. That’s just asking for trouble. I’d contact your brother either before or after the dinner.

While your brother had time to get an annulment has your parents or you ever officially mentioned it to him? Yes, he’s an adult, but you are still family and perhaps he hasn’t given it much thought one way or the other.

This is a difficult situation, but he’s a grown up and personally, I’d go to both the ceremony and the reception, BUT only after I had given the truth to my brother at an appropriate time beforehand. You can be there because you love him, not because you agree with him. Just make sure that is very clear to him.
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My parents are Catholic. They go to Mass on Sundays but they are lax in the morals department. They are happy for their son and don’t really care about the adultery bit. I think probably deep down they are ashamed (hence the anger at me), but it is easier to pretend I am the problem.

My dad called my Ayatollah for simply staing the teaching of Jesus in the Gospels. It’s easy to hate on me, as the following passage was recalled in my mind:
"Let us lie in wait for the righteous man, because he is inconvenient to us and opposes our actions; he reproaches us for sins against the law, and accuses us of sins against our training. 13 He professes to have knowledge of God, and calls himself a child of the Lord. 14 He became to us a reproof of our thoughts; 15 the very sight of him is a burden to us, because his manner of life is unlike that of others, and his ways are strange.
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OK, so I am not that righteous, but I think the point stands.

I’ve decided to go to the celebratory lunch on Saturday coming, but I won’t mention the engagement and will just act like it never happened. I won’t go to the registration ceremony later in the year, but I will go to the dinner after, if I am welcome.
 
3675864 said:
My parents are Catholic. They go to Mass on Sundays but they are lax in the morals department. They are happy for their son and don’t really care about the adultery bit. I think probably deep down they are ashamed (hence the anger at me), but it is easier to pretend I am the problem.

My dad called my Ayatollah for simply staing the teaching of Jesus in the Gospels. It’s easy to hate on me, as the following passage was recalled in my mind:

.
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You don’t have to answer this but I am also around your age and dealing with the fact that my xh has impregnated another woman before our divorce was even final. So needless to say I have said some things under my breath or in my empty home or to my therapist. Could it possible that maybe it is not what you have said but how you have said it?
 
3675864 said:
There is a possibility that I might ‘lose’ my brother if I do what is right by my Catholic faith. Whether I ‘had’ him in the first place if that happens, would be another question.
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I wonder what the out come was in this situation. Anyone else experience something similar?
 
3675864 said:
My brother, a divorcee, has just gotten engaged to a lady, who is also divorced.

He, a Catholic, did not pursue an annulment for his marriage (I don’t think he was interested in seeking to obtain one - he has had plenty of time to do so). The lady he is engaged to is a divorced Protestant. Both had unfortunate marriages: my brother married foolishly and the marriage failed, whilst his new lady’s husband left her and her two kids for another woman.

I am not sure what to say to my brother. I can’t congratulate him, despite that being the expectation of my parents, who I live with. My other siblings have congratulated him.

Next weekend, they will visit the family home, and I will have to say something. 🤷

There could be a big row if I don’t congratulate them, yet what else can I say to them both?

I spoke to a priest and he said that I could affirm with my brother that I love him, but because of my beliefs I cannot support what he is about to do. I would also offer my prayers. But what can I say to the lady?

I have to say something when they walk into the house. I can’t just pretend it hasn’t happened. They won’t be open to any counsel from me so I’d be wasting my time with that.

I have decided not to go to the registration ceremony, but the priest said I could go to the meal afterwards, as Jesus ate with sinners… Whether I’d be welcome to the meal is another matter.

There is a possibility that I might ‘lose’ my brother if I do what is right by my Catholic faith. Whether I ‘had’ him in the first place if that happens, would be another question.
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It’s so much easier in my family. Nobody is Catholic. I just say congrats, and make sure of two things. My gift is less expensive than I purchased for the first marriage, and I make sure I eat far more in food than my gift cost…😉
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
It’s so much easier in my family. Nobody is Catholic. I just say congrats, and make sure of two things. My gift is less expensive than I purchased for the first marriage, and I make sure I eat far more in food than my gift cost…😉
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It is awkward for Catholic family.
The weeds and wheat Gospel reading today applies well.

ha ha 😉
less gift
more food consumed
 
I’ve been in this scenario twice.

The first time, it was my dh’s Catholic cousin, and we had already agreed to have our young children in her wedding when we found out that her fiance was divorced with no annulment. She was long distance, so we wrote a letter explaining why we had to pull out of participation in the wedding. We also stated that we loved them and wanted the best for them, and that we respected their right to make their own choices, but that we hoped they would understand our need to be true to our beliefs. We decided not to attend the reception either, because it seemed like we’d be giving our kids a mixed message, because we didn’t think they’d want us at the reception if we didn’t support the wedding, and because we didn’t think it would be easy to avoid voicing support for the wedding while socializing with the rest of the crowd who would likely be speaking a lot about how great the couple is and how great the wedding/marriage would be. Prior to writing this letter, we made the mistake of discussing it with my dh’s mother, who responded as if we had just confessed to being mass murderers. Compliance and support was definitely expected, and for her, it was ugly. Maybe we are just stubborn, but we both felt that while we should have just kept her out of it (after all, it was between us and the bride, not us and her), her ugly reaction didn’t for a second make us question our decision. Instead we felt all the more strongly that it is ridiculous for other people to expect us to respect their decisions, while at the same time not respecting our decisions. In the end, dh’s mother eventually got over it, and once the wedding had ended and she saw that we weren’t going to make a public scene about the situation, it became a non issue.

Then a couple of years later, dh’s divorced Catholic sister got married to a Catholic man on the front lawn of dh’s parent’s house by a justice of the peace. We were given about 4 days notice of this wedding, and this time, instead of writing a letter, we had a conversation in person with the couple, explaining that we wouldn’t attend and why, and that we loved them regardless, but needed to be true to our faith. It was a peaceful conversation and our relationship with the couple never worsened. We never heard a word about it from dh’s mother, and she never appeared to be upset that we didn’t attend. We took this as a positive step in the direction of respect for us being true to our beliefs.

So In general our approach has been to be honest about our beliefs and objections, and to not throw them in people’s faces, but to be willing to tactfully and privately state our objections if necessary to explain our choices. We have found that we’ve gotten better at being tactful, matter of fact, and not emotional, and our family has gotten better at recognizing and respecting our right to make our own choices even when they differ with theirs. Over the years, we have had many opportunities to practice this - after all, a faithful Catholic family will often make opposite choices of those around them - personally, I am very glad that our family knows who we are and what we believe. Not only do we not have to put energy into hiding our beliefs, but it also allows us to witness the faith - we wouldn’t be able to plant any seeds if we didn’t let our beliefs be known.
 
To your brother I would say, “I wish all the best for you.”
To the fiance I would say, “I’m very happy to meet you,” (or if you’ve met her before,) I’m happy you’re joining our family."

I would act like I assume they will do the right thing eventually. As in, “so I understand an annulment is easier to get these days, maybe you will be looking into that.”

I had a friend who was living with her guy, and I told her she should get married, She did, and thanked me later for the counsel. But I did not bang her over the head with it.
God bless.
.
 
Irishmom2 said:
This thread is from 2011!
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I know!

The original poster described a problem that is still very relevant today and worth discussion.

Someone posted this link…still available and quite good.
cuf.org/2004/04/should-i-attend/

I was thinking today about St. John the Baptist. There are many ways to lose a head. It doesn’t necessarily always wind up on a plate. His life and death was a portents for future Christians.
 
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