Awkward situation..how to get out?

[1inICXC]

Say Jane , Joe and their children are friends with Kate, Sam (who are in a troubled marriage) and their children … Kate, however, shows a little too much interest in Joe (making inapporopriate comments, having her gaze follow him everywhere, tries to get his sympathy) which becomes very obvious even to Jane (Sam may or may not be aware) and creates a terribly awkward situation.

How do you break off the friendship or address the situation?

 

[Rachel126]

If I’m Joe, I tell her point blank to stop it, we are both married, this is inappropriate, and I’m not interested in cheating on my spouse. Then see if that fixes the situation. If it doesn’t, I would stop hanging out with the other couple, but in order to be fair to the children, I would still invite their kids over to play with my kids or to go somewhere with my family (without the parents). If the kids asked questions, I would just say the parents had a disagreement about grown-up stuff, but the kids could still be friends.

 

[St_Francis]

Yes, the situation must definitely be addressed.

I wouldn’t even mention that the parents had had a disagreement; I would just say the parents are busy or can’t make it. While there are some difficulties in friendships which need to be worked out, there are others which can not be, but setting an example of “cutting off” when there is an unspecified “disagreement” is not a good thing for children.

 

[MaryT777]

That’s a difficult situation for confrontation will probably just lead to “What???” and denial and cause more problems. Trust your best judgment as you know yourselves and the other couple better than anyone on the Internet.

Mary.

 

[Steveabrous]

Kate is making her interest in Joe obvious without coming out and saying it. So if Joe accusses her of anything it will be flatly denied and Joe will be considered a bad guy and my even cause Kates husband to feel the need to defend her honor Blah, blah, blah. So what does Joe do. Simple he lets her know he’s not interested without coming out and saying it, then Sam will get the hint and move on to someone else.

Trust me this works. If Sam says " My husband does/ doesn’t do (Blank)" to get his simpathy Joe shows her she doesn’t get his sympathy by defending her husband, even relating to him with “Yeah I do that too.” Then starts talking about how wonderful his wife is

If Sam makes an inappropriate comment Joe lets her know he is not interested by saying pretty much the same thing about Jane. example. Sam says " Joe I love your hair I jusrt want to run my fingers through it." Joe says " Yeah I love Jane’s hair and love doing that to her hair."

If Sam sits next to Joe, Joe gets up for something and sits down next to Jane not Sam.

Sam will either get the hint and move on or the come on will become blatant at which point Joe says I’m not interested I’m sorry But I think you need to leave,

 

[Allegra]

Assuming that Joe wants to preserve the friendship, I think I would go about it by making it blatantly obvious that Joe is very much in love with his own wife to the point that it is sickening for other people to witness. Also, give Kate zero attention for her efforts and eventually she will get the drift. The only thing that might need to be addressed is the inappropriate comment issue. Depending on what that entails, Joe may want to say, “That’s really not appropriate.” or “That’s making me uncomfortable.” or whatever. If Joe or Joe’s wife confronts Kate about her other behavior, she will most likely deny it.

 

[1inICXC]

Kate is making her interest in Joe obvious without coming out and saying it. So if Joe accusses her of anything it will be flatly denied and Joe will be considered a bad guy and my even cause Kates husband to feel the need to defend her honor Blah, blah, blah. So what does Joe do. Simple he lets her know he’s not interested without coming out and saying it, then Sam will get the hint and move on to someone else.

Trust me this works. If Sam says " My husband does/ doesn’t do (Blank)" to get his simpathy Joe shows her she doesn’t get his sympathy by defending her husband, even relating to him with “Yeah I do that too.” Then starts talking about how wonderful his wife is

If Sam makes an inappropriate comment Joe lets her know he is not interested by saying pretty much the same thing about Jane. example. Sam says " Joe I love your hair I jusrt want to run my fingers through it." Joe says " Yeah I love Jane’s hair and love doing that to her hair."

If Sam sits next to Joe, Joe gets up for something and sits down next to Jane not Sam.

Sam will either get the hint and move on or the come on will become blatant at which point Joe says I’m not interested I’m sorry But I think you need to leave,

This!!!

It is obvious that the other couple is in a crisis and Kate is desperate from many points of view…(no doubt, so is Sam) . Sam is likely unaware at this point so anything that would make him catch on is preferably to be avoided.

Like you say, it’s really all in Joe’s hands…and up to Jane to patiently wait for this to play itself out… Still awkward nonetheless…

 

[Bezant]

Say Jane , Joe and their children are friends with Kate, Sam (who are in a troubled marriage) and their children … Kate, however, shows a little too much interest in Joe (making inapporopriate comments, having her gaze follow him everywhere, tries to get his sympathy) which becomes very obvious even to Jane (Sam may or may not be aware) and creates a terribly awkward situation.

How do you break off the friendship or address the situation?

Let’s slow down a bit.

If Joe’s attractive then a reasonable amount of admiration is to be expected, frankly. The question is, does Kate’s interaction with Joe fall within reasonable expectations of how married people should interact with opposite-sex friends?

You say that she makes “inappropriate” comments and she tries to “get his sympathy.” Well, what do you mean by that? Does she single out Joe as if to pursue him romantically, or is she just an attention-seeker? Is it possible that Jane is jealous and reading more into the situation than actually exists?

With all due respect to Rachel’s imput, I do NOT recommend making serious, implicit accusations (“I’m not interested in cheating on my spouse”), especially if unsubstantiated. It’s possible that Kate’s intentions are innocent and she has no idea she’s making Jane uncomfortable. Something to think about before burning bridges.

 

[ATeutonicKnight]

Kate is making her interest in Joe obvious without coming out and saying it. So if Joe accusses her of anything it will be flatly denied and Joe will be considered a bad guy and my even cause Kates husband to feel the need to defend her honor Blah, blah, blah. So what does Joe do. Simple he lets her know he’s not interested without coming out and saying it, then Sam will get the hint and move on to someone else.

Trust me this works. If Sam says " My husband does/ doesn’t do (Blank)" to get his simpathy Joe shows her she doesn’t get his sympathy by defending her husband, even relating to him with “Yeah I do that too.” Then starts talking about how wonderful his wife is

If Sam makes an inappropriate comment Joe lets her know he is not interested by saying pretty much the same thing about Jane. example. Sam says " Joe I love your hair I jusrt want to run my fingers through it." Joe says " Yeah I love Jane’s hair and love doing that to her hair."

If Sam sits next to Joe, Joe gets up for something and sits down next to Jane not Sam.

Sam will either get the hint and move on or the come on will become blatant at which point Joe says I’m not interested I’m sorry But I think you need to leave,

This is all fun and good, except “Sam” is the husband and “Kate” is the wife. If “Sam” was hitting on “Joe” then this would be an entirely different discussion.

 

[Steveabrous]

This is all fun and good, except “Sam” is the husband and “Kate” is the wife. If “Sam” was hitting on “Joe” then this would be an entirely different discussion.

Sorry, I got the names mixed up I meant Kate. Please substitute the name Kate where I put Sam.

 

[EasterJoy]

This!!!

It is obvious that the other couple is in a crisis and Kate is desperate from many points of view…(no doubt, so is Sam) . Sam is likely unaware at this point so anything that would make him catch on is preferably to be avoided.

Like you say, it’s really all in Joe’s hands…and up to Jane to patiently wait for this to play itself out… Still awkward nonetheless…

Kate and Sam’s marriage is not in Joe’s hands, but the way he and Jane allow other people to act around them is. Jane also does not have to wait patiently while someone acts in a way towards her husband that neither she nor her husband thinks is appropriate. She has standing to object and insist that it stop, never mind how the behavior was meant.

Joe and Jane cannot tell Kate what is going on with her or or her marriage. They do not know what her intentions are. They can’t know it and they’d be wise not to let on if they did. It will only make Kate defensive. They also do not need to make connections between behavior they don’t like and other problems Kate may be having in her life.

What Joe and Jane can tell Kate is that they are uncomfortable with the way she interacts with Joe, the way she talks to or about Sam, and so on…whatever. They aren’t the experts on Kate, but they are the experts on themselves and their own boundaries.

“If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.” Matt 18:15-17

Since Joe is married and since Kate’s behavior is therefore offensive to both him and to Jane, and since Jane has witnessed it, Joe and Jane ought to tell Kate that they find it inappropriate and insist that it stop. If she will have none of that, then they ought to involve Sam–again, specifically avoiding saying that Kate has designs or something in her mind, but that her behavior is making them both uncomfortable and needs to stop. (“What, you think she’s coming on to you?” “I don’t know what she has in her head, I only know that I don’t like it when she does X, and since it is a pattern I want it to stop.” “You think she has a thing for you!” “You aren’t listening to me. I’m not her confessor. I want her to stop doing X, Y, and Z. I’m married, and I don’t allow that from women who want me to consider them friends. That’s really not very difficult to understand.”) If both Kate and Sam refuse to see anything wrong with their behavior and won’t stop it even at the cost of their friendship with Joe and Jane, then Joe and Jane take their bat and ball and go home. It’s not easy, but it is fairly straight-forward.

 

[Debora123]

Assuming that Joe wants to preserve the friendship, I think I would go about it by making it blatantly obvious that Joe is very much in love with his own wife to the point that it is sickening for other people to witness. Also, give Kate zero attention for her efforts and eventually she will get the drift. The only thing that might need to be addressed is the inappropriate comment issue. Depending on what that entails, Joe may want to say, “That’s really not appropriate.” or “That’s making me uncomfortable.” or whatever. If Joe or Joe’s wife confronts Kate about her other behavior, she will most likely deny it.

this

 

[on_the_hill]

Let’s slow down a bit.

If Joe’s attractive then a reasonable amount of admiration is to be expected, frankly. The question is, does Kate’s interaction with Joe fall within reasonable expectations of how married people should interact with opposite-sex friends?

You say that she makes “inappropriate” comments and she tries to “get his sympathy.” Well, what do you mean by that? Does she single out Joe as if to pursue him romantically, or is she just an attention-seeker? Is it possible that Jane is jealous and reading more into the situation than actually exists?

With all due respect to Rachel’s imput, I do NOT recommend making serious, implicit accusations (“I’m not interested in cheating on my spouse”), especially if unsubstantiated. It’s possible that Kate’s intentions are innocent and she has no idea she’s making Jane uncomfortable. Something to think about before burning bridges.

+1

 

[bsroufek]

I’ve been in a situation like this. And the point I want to make is that, despite my movements away from her and making it very obvious by my body language and movements that I was NOT interested, she didn’t seem to care but continued the behavior; I had to leave. Some time later, she gave up on this, Thank God.

I didn’t verbally, outright say anything to her though. She was a friend and I didn’t want to shame her.

So, although the suggestions above about Joe or Joe and his wife saying something to Kate about it MIGHT work, it may not and it may bring shame on her.

Joe should just continue to keep his body language and actions unaccepting of Kate’s overtures, or even keep leaving if necessary, until Kate gives it up. Hopefully, she will.

God bless!

 

[Joy2day]

I.dont know how Jane is expected to endure a social occasion with a ‘friend’ who spends the time flirting with her husband - right in front of her! There are some situations that are intolerable and that do not qualify as ‘friendship’. This is one of them. To have the conversation is difficult because it is embarassing & will mist likely be denied & Joe mist likely being blamed by Sam as having ‘tickets’ on himself, or Jane blamed for misinterpreting things. Such a situation is playing with fire & one where everyone should have known to avoid. Why can’t Joe just catch up with Sam? If Sam & Kate want to know why, then Jane & Joe could explain it to them. Very difficult though if Joe does not see a problem with the situation or actually enjoys the attention…

 

[Demetra2]

I think that the answer is pretty simple. End the friendship ASAP. A woman flirting with another woman’s husband is not a friend and not to be trusted. You don’t need to explain your reasons or gossip because it will embarrass both families.

 

[Joe_5859]

Joe and Jane need to talk and decide together the best way to handle it.

 

[Bezant]

Jane also does not have to wait patiently while someone acts in a way towards her husband that neither she nor her husband thinks is appropriate. She has standing to object and insist that it stop, never mind how the behavior was meant… Since Joe is married and since Kate’s behavior is therefore offensive to both him and to Jane, and since Jane has witnessed it, Joe and Jane ought to tell Kate that they find it inappropriate and insist that it stop.

I dont know how Jane is expected to endure a social occasion with a ‘friend’ who spends the time flirting with her husband - right in front of her! There are some situations that are intolerable and that do not qualify as ‘friendship’. This is one of them. Very difficult though if Joe does not see a problem with the situation or actually enjoys the attention.

I think that the answer is pretty simple. End the friendship ASAP. A woman flirting with another woman’s husband is not a friend and not to be trusted.

Flirting is not always intended as a romantic pursuit.

Many enjoy the ego boost and making others feel good. Sometimes I flirt wih my female friends just to have a laugh. Even when you’re committed it’s nice knowing that people think you’re fit, charming, funny, or whatever. If Joe’s attractive then women will notice and praise him; how he deals with it is up to him.

With little information from the OP I don’t think there are “simple” answers here. Even so bsroufek’s advice sounds a more prudent way out than challenging Kate or ending the friendship. Above all there needs to be a clear assessment of what’s actually going on. It’s easy to jump to conclusions too quickly.

 

[1inICXC]

I.dont know how Jane is expected to endure a social occasion with a ‘friend’ who spends the time flirting with her husband - right in front of her! There are some situations that are intolerable and that do not qualify as ‘friendship’. This is one of them. To have the conversation is difficult because it is embarassing & will mist likely be denied & Joe mist likely being blamed by Sam as having ‘tickets’ on himself, or Jane blamed for misinterpreting things. Such a situation is playing with fire & one where everyone should have known to avoid. Why can’t Joe just catch up with Sam? If Sam & Kate want to know why, then Jane & Joe could explain it to them. Very difficult though if Joe does not see a problem with the situation or actually enjoys the attention…

Thank you for all the replies to this twisted situation. One of the major issues is the one stated above. Jane pities the situation Kate is in and realizes she is stooping really low out of desperation but regardless, she is not comfortable seeing Kate so onto her husband. Interestingly enough, Kate tones it down a lot when Sam is around.

Another problem is that it is mostly Kate who initiates the meetups and though they are all mutual friends now, initially Kate and Joe established a connection through some personal ventures. Joe was always rather indifferent to her presence but Kate insited Joe and the family visit them since the kids are all of similar ages and whatever other similarities. Things seemed ok at first, until Kate started getting pushy about meet-ups (I.e inviting herself over without the rest of the family) at which point her intentions became more apparent and now both Joe and Jane would want to get rid of her but because of the kids and the unassuming husband it is not easy to suddenly cut off contact.

For now, Jane and Joe have decided to avoid visits and any contact as much as possible hoping Kate gets the hint…but like an OP mentioned, she may not…

 

[EasterJoy]

Flirting is not always intended as a romantic pursuit.

Many enjoy the ego boost and making others feel good. Sometimes I flirt wih my female friends just to have a laugh. Even when you’re committed it’s nice knowing that people think you’re fit, charming, funny, or whatever. If Joe’s attractive then women will notice and praise him; how he deals with it is up to him.

With little information from the OP I don’t think there are “simple” answers here. Even so bsroufek’s advice sounds a more prudent way out than challenging Kate or ending the friendship. Above all there needs to be a clear assessment of what’s actually going on. It’s easy to jump to conclusions too quickly.

In the case being cited, both spouses think her behavior has clearly and repeatedly crossed a boundary, so I think what you’re thinking of is a different animal. Yes, there is such a thing as innocent repartee that could be seen as flirting, but I would hope that if it ever happens that one of the targets or targets’ spouses gets upset about it, you’d all cut it out immediately, let alone if neither one of them liked it.

I have a rule: You cannot be a friend to a person without being a friend to the person’s marriage. If your friends don’t appreciate your personal comments, well, you erred. You apologize, you don’t repeat the mistake, and if you are immediate in your respectful retreat, usually it is all is passed over as an innocent miscalculation, that is that, and no harm done.