[B]Catholic and Islam[/B]

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hi all, I’m Muslim and I’m interest about the phrase inside of your Catechism of the Catholic Church that say about:

The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

well anyway i know that we adore the different god, maybe the same but difference in how we get it from our different religion. i just cant get it about the Trinity. and back to the topic, if we adore the different God, can i say that your “Catechism of the Catholic Church” was totally wrong???

*anyway I’m sorry if I’m wrong in writing, I’m not American…
 
Well, I will try.

Jews and Muslim worship one God. Just as it would be wrong to say that just because Jews don’t understand the Trinity, they don’t worship the true God, it would be wrong. Acknowledging one God is one thing, understanding him is an other…sometimes misunderstanding and misleadings can lead to different directions.

It is like two friends who acknowledge one authority. They point to the same direction where it comes from. let’s say at the top of one mountain, at the one house which is there. They capable of hearing only one voice coming from there, only one authority, one power, one message. However, not all of them have actually been to that mountain, and to that house, and inside the house to see what is inside.

The Christian is the person who have been inside. He saw that that oneness is the oneness of love. There is one will, one mind, one heart, one power. Yet, all this comes from three persons: the lover, the beloved, and the love they love each other (intro to the Trinity). One love and source of all that exist, and sustaining all of them, source of all that is good.

Just because many persons are not at the same level and talking the same language, it does nto mean that they are not heading to the same direction although they may have different assumptions about what is at the destination.

God bless
 
Well, I will try.

Jews and Muslim worship one God. Just as it would be wrong to say that just because Jews don’t understand the Trinity, they don’t worship the true God, it would be wrong. Acknowledging one God is one thing, understanding him is an other…sometimes misunderstanding and misleadings can lead to different directions.

It is like two friends who acknowledge one authority. They point to the same direction where it comes from. let’s say at the top of one mountain, at the one house which is there. They capable of hearing only one voice coming from there, only one authority, one power, one message. However, not all of them have actually been to that mountain, and to that house, and inside the house to see what is inside.

The Christian is the person who have been inside. He saw that that oneness is the oneness of love. There is one will, one mind, one heart, one power. Yet, all this comes from three persons: the lover, the beloved, and the love they love each other (intro to the Trinity). One love and source of all that exist, and sustaining all of them, source of all that is good.

Just because many persons are not at the same level and talking the same language, it does nto mean that they are not heading to the same direction although they may have different assumptions about what is at the destination.

God bless
nah, then why in the Bible that i read, Jesus still can talk or ask to Allah when two of them are the same one??
 
This is an interesting thread as I have never been able to quite grasp the Trinity myself. I always explained it to myself as such: My mother is a mom, a wife, and a daughter - three functions of the same person. Clearly, I was in error.
 
This is an interesting thread as I have never been able to quite grasp the Trinity myself. I always explained it to myself as such: My mother is a mom, a wife, and a daughter - three functions of the same person. Clearly, I was in error.
Muslims see Jesus are a prophet not God, but yes he is not ordinary prophet he is considered to be a Messenger of God and the Messiah who was sent to guide the Children of Israel (banī isrā’īl) with a new scripture, the Injīl or Gospel.
 
hi all, I’m Muslim and I’m interest about the phrase inside of your Catechism of the Catholic Church that say about:

The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

well anyway i know that we adore the different god, maybe the same but difference in how we get it from our different religion. i just cant get it about the Trinity. and back to the topic, if we adore the different God, can i say that your “Catechism of the Catholic Church” was totally wrong???

*anyway I’m sorry if I’m wrong in writing, I’m not American…
You are correct that if Catholics and Muslims adore a different God then the Catechism is wrong. That’s a simple matter of logic. I would ask you why you say that you know we adore a different God? Christians, Jews, and Muslims all profess to adore the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. We all claim to adore the God who created the universe. We also disagree about certain attributes of that God. Logically on the points at which we disagree, either one position is correct or they are all wrong - but they cannot all be correct. I don’t think that being wrong about the attibutes of God means that a person worships a different God, just as being wrong about some attribute of a person in your life doesn’t mean that you don’t know who they are.

The Trinity is a mystery that is beyond our human understanding. Christians adamantly worship one God. They believe that that one God has revealed Himself to exist in three persons in perfect communion, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It’s a scandalous doctrine that took the early Christians hundreds of years to grasp. I’ll leave it at that for now, perhaps others will be able to give better explanations of what Christians believe.
 
Please rephrase your question for more clarity.
maybe like this, if they are (the father, the son, the holy spirit) the one same thing that is “GOD”. why they still asking and talking each other?
 
The Muslims are very admirable in devotion to daily prayer and in praise of God as Creator and mystery.

To understand Catholicism, you have to first understand the faith and history of the Jewish people. The Lord God led them out of slavery into the Promised Land. God gave His people the 10 commandments. God directed them how to build His temple, who was going to administrate the temple, and the atonement of sin.

The Jews recall God’s saving grace from ancient Egypt at Passover. The Jews also have many laws regarding daily life, commerce, marriage, eating, burial, etc.

Christ fulfills the prophets. The Prophet Isaiah described Christ as a man of suffering, who would not stand out, who would heal us through his wounds, who would be placed on a tree.

Of all of God’s creation, man is the most significant and greatest. Yet man turned against God through our first parents, Adam and Eve. Christ came and was baptized by St. John the Baptist. At that moment, a voice was heard by the followers of St. John the Baptist, ‘This is my Beloved Son, in Whom I am well pleased’. So God Himself is introducing Himself now as Father. The Holy Spirit also appeared over Christ in the form of a dove. So we have here a new introduction of God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Christ was born in an animal feeder, poor of the Virgin Mary…to become nourishment for us, and the fulfillment of the manna from heaven that fed the Jews in the desert before they came to Israel. His first miracle was at Cana…symbolizing that we, His believers in the Church, would become His bride…providing the best wine for the wedding party, and at the request of His mother, to begin His ministry before His time.

Christ fed thousands of people with just so many bread and fish, He taught in parables that would make one look not so much at others, but deep into his heart to see what was of God and what was not, and to place his heart in love and not hate.

When Christ died on the Cross, there was great darkness, an earthquake, the souls of the just rose from the dead appearing to many, the curtain across the tabernacle in the temple now torn…meaning now Christ was the revelation for all to see.

Christ appeared to the apostles and others after His resurrection from the dead…He walked with those on the Road to Emmaus.

Christ rose from the dead to break the power of not only sin but death. Through Christ, the Lamb of God, we are restored to Him…but through Christ, now God is our Father as well. The Holy Spirit guides the Church to stay true to the teachings of Christ. Christ Himself sustains the Church on His body, blood, soul, and divinity found in the sacraments.

Finally, the new dimension of God is that He is now among us. He walks with us, He speaks to us through His Word in the Bible, because His Word is alive and speaks in all times. He nurtures us with His life in the sacraments and with fellow believers.

The closer we come to Christ, the more we can understand that our God is the God of love, and it is in the Cross that evil and suffering have meaning.

It is with Christ Who continues to walk with us, bears our sufferings and weakness, who helps us forgive and love…With Christ we are no longer alone. Christ is for those who want to recognize Him…He is here.
 
This is an interesting thread as I have never been able to quite grasp the Trinity myself. I always explained it to myself as such: My mother is a mom, a wife, and a daughter - three functions of the same person. Clearly, I was in error.
Person is about 'relationship’s.
Using ‘mother, daughter, wife’ is a good way to start. But God is not one in the sense that those three tags can be held by the same person, but rather in the fact that those tags/relationship are related to other tags with wich they are one being, and without which they themselves are not.

You have ‘mother’ with ‘father’ and ‘son or daugher’. None of these three can not be without the other two. And it is the same for each of the two. This is how humanity ‘image’ God. A unity in a diversity and a unity which can not be without that diversity just as that diversity can not be without that unity.

God bless
 
You are correct that if Catholics and Muslims adore a different God then the Catechism is wrong. That’s a simple matter of logic. I would ask you why you say that you know we adore a different God? Christians, Jews, and Muslims all profess to adore the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. We all claim to adore the God who created the universe. We also disagree about certain attributes of that God. Logically on the points at which we disagree, either one position is correct or they are all wrong - but they cannot all be correct. I don’t think that being wrong about the attibutes of God means that a person worships a different God, just as being wrong about some attribute of a person in your life doesn’t mean that you don’t know who they are.

The Trinity is a mystery that is beyond our human understanding. Christians adamantly worship one God. They believe that that one God has revealed Himself to exist in three persons in perfect communion, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It’s a scandalous doctrine that took the early Christians hundreds of years to grasp. I’ll leave it at that for now, perhaps others will be able to give better explanations of what Christians believe.
If in ISLAM view(no offense), nowadays Christians are adore a ‘human’, but yes not ordinary human, he is a prophet. see?
 
maybe like this, if they are (the father, the son, the holy spirit) the one same thing that is “GOD”. why they still asking and talking each other?
Love.
God is love.

About asking, it must be mentioned, that this is particularly in the context of the fact that the Son lowered himself to the level of a ‘servant’ (a creature). He asks in solidarity with the creatures and for the creatures.

In himself, as the Son, He only offer eternal thanksgiving to the eternal generosity of the Father.

Gdo bless
 
so, is that one God can talking each others?
You’re asking all the right questions. The claims of the doctrine of Trinity are incredibly difficult to understand - and I think it’s a concept that it is probably misunderstood by many Christians.

Christians believe that God is one being. There is only one being that is God. We also believe that the one being of God consists of three persons. This is very difficult to understand because in our ordinary life all beings consist of at most one person. But we know of beings that consist of no persons, such as animals. So the Christian claim is that there are beings that consist of no persons (like animals), and beings that consist of one person (like humans and angels) and only one being in all of existence that consists of three persons - that being is God.
 
The Muslims are very admirable in devotion to daily prayer and in praise of God as Creator and mystery.

To understand Catholicism, you have to first understand the faith and history of the Jewish people. The Lord God led them out of slavery into the Promised Land. God gave His people the 10 commandments. God directed them how to build His temple, who was going to administrate the temple, and the atonement of sin.

The Jews recall God’s saving grace from ancient Egypt at Passover. The Jews also have many laws regarding daily life, commerce, marriage, eating, burial, etc.

Christ fulfills the prophets. The Prophet Isaiah described Christ as a man of suffering, who would not stand out, who would heal us through his wounds, who would be placed on a tree.

Of all of God’s creation, man is the most significant and greatest. Yet man turned against God through our first parents, Adam and Eve. Christ came and was baptized by St. John the Baptist. At that moment, a voice was heard by the followers of St. John the Baptist, ‘This is my Beloved Son, in Whom I am well pleased’. So God Himself is introducing Himself now as Father. The Holy Spirit also appeared over Christ in the form of a dove. So we have here a new introduction of God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Christ was born in an animal feeder, poor of the Virgin Mary…to become nourishment for us, and the fulfillment of the manna from heaven that fed the Jews in the desert before they came to Israel. His first miracle was at Cana…symbolizing that we, His believers in the Church, would become His bride…providing the best wine for the wedding party, and at the request of His mother, to begin His ministry before His time.

Christ fed thousands of people with just so many bread and fish, He taught in parables that would make one look not so much at others, but deep into his heart to see what was of God and what was not, and to place his heart in love and not hate.

When Christ died on the Cross, there was great darkness, an earthquake, the souls of the just rose from the dead appearing to many, the curtain across the tabernacle in the temple now torn…meaning now Christ was the revelation for all to see.

Christ appeared to the apostles and others after His resurrection from the dead…He walked with those on the Road to Emmaus.

Christ rose from the dead to break the power of not only sin but death. Through Christ, the Lamb of God, we are restored to Him…but through Christ, now God is our Father as well. The Holy Spirit guides the Church to stay true to the teachings of Christ. Christ Himself sustains the Church on His body, blood, soul, and divinity found in the sacraments.

Finally, the new dimension of God is that He is now among us. He walks with us, He speaks to us through His Word in the Bible, because His Word is alive and speaks in all times. He nurtures us with His life in the sacraments and with fellow believers.

The closer we come to Christ, the more we can understand that our God is the God of love, and it is in the Cross that evil and suffering have meaning.

It is with Christ Who continues to walk with us, bears our sufferings and weakness, who helps us forgive and love…With Christ we are no longer alone. Christ is for those who want to recognize Him…He is here.
“At that moment, a voice was heard by the followers of St. John the Baptist, ‘This is my Beloved Son, in Whom I am well pleased’. So God Himself is introducing Himself now as Father. The Holy Spirit also appeared over Christ in the form of a dove. So we have here a new introduction of God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.”

so if God said that Jesus is the son, why it make you think that Jesus as a God? is that God introduce Jesus as a God? i think not. and about the holy spirit, it called angel in Islam. is that holy spirit say that they are god? In Islam view that they are messengers of God. they have no free will, (unlike humans or jinn) and can do only what God orders them to do. An example of a task they carry out is that of testing of individuals by granting them abundant wealth and curing their illness. Believing in angels is one of the six Articles of Faith in Islam.
yes we need to believe it too, but not as God.
 
If in ISLAM view(no offense), nowadays Christians are adore a ‘human’, but yes not ordinary human, he is a prophet. see?
No offense taken, if we’re going to share our beliefs it’s important that we both honestly express what we believe. I would say in response that Jesus claimed to be God as recorded in all of the Gospels. If he is not God he is no prophet, but instead a liar.
 
This is an interesting thread as I have never been able to quite grasp the Trinity myself. I always explained it to myself as such: My mother is a mom, a wife, and a daughter - three functions of the same person. Clearly, I was in error.
Indeed, what you describe is an early heresy called Sabellianism.

The Trinitarian concept is in and of itself a contradiction by our standards of logic. What we must remember is that God cannot be defined by human concepts, nor can He be held to our standards of what is contradiction. God is both one and three. He is three persons (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) who are united in their divinity and will, but differ in that one is unbegotten, one is begotten and the other proceeds. He is one in essence (the divine essence) which shared (but not shared in any manner which would imply the division, diminution or augmentation of the essence) between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Neither the threeness nor the oneness of God is merely just an illusion, they are both very real, and that’s probably what makes the Trinity very hard to comprehend, I think.

Again, the concept is really beyond human comprehension. It’s much better for us just to say what God is not rather than what he is (e.g., the three persons of God are not simply modes or manifestations of God; they are truly three distinct persons, yet the distinction does not imply separation for they are still truly one). Describing the Trinity really has more to do with recognizing the limitations of human language and the human mind rather than going down the the dangerous path of attempting to ascribe to God limitations which only exist in our minds, which cannot comprehend the true nature of the Uncreated God. This is why negative theology rather than simple-minded positive theology (usually used by those who attack Christianity) is the only appropriate way to approach our transcendent God. I hope that makes a little bit of sense.
 
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