Babies are Beautiful.

[TheFraggle]

I would just like to say that I am the youngest of nine children. Now, most people look down on big families, viewing them with disdain, but I do not. I believe that babies are indeed beautiful.

There are many people today who believe that it is not necessary to have that many kids, to only have a few and call it quits. Because babies after all, according to seculars, cost money, are noisy, and are smelly. I am fed up with this mentality. It is wrong, and it simply has to stop.

My father wanted to stop at five kids. I’m glad he didn’t however. I would not be here standing before you today writing this if he decided to end it. I wouldn’t be able to tell people about how the birth control pill causes abortions. That and norplant, the IUD, depo-provera, and jadelle. No. Not at all indeed. From me sending this information, countless people have thanked me, and I can only hope that countless lives have been saved. But I wouldn’t be able to do this…if I was not born.

Now, I have over 20 nieces and nephews. My brother has nine children. And my sister has six. Let me just tell you, they have filled places in my heart I didn’t know were empty. Each and every one of them has brought fulfillment and joy to my life. They are my rock, and I hope from my own existence I have been a rock as well.

Each child, made in God’s image is a blessing. One that is to be cherished, nurtured, and loved. By saying yes to life, we are saying yes to God on earth.

And they will have children some day. And their children’s children will have children. We erase whole legacies if we don’t say yes to life.

So, I ask you to be open to life, and to not be afraid. God will be with you. You will be blessed with each child you have- here on earth, and in eternity.

 

[Kelfa28]

Sigh

Nope…all set.

I’m blessed with three.

Some parents are good with a smaller sized family. We’re done having kids.

If that means I don’t trust God then I probably shouldn’t be Catholic anymore.

Believe it or not there is a reality when it comes to not being able to cope with a large family and financial concerns, mental and emotional health are some of them.

It’s completely ridiculous to state that we aren’t trusting in God or are open enough to life because we don’t want to go beyond a certain number of children.

I can promise you I would be an absolutely miserable human being if I had another baby.

How do I know this? Because I’m maxed out with the three I have now.

My husband and I have been open to life but having so many kids in such a short time with no break or end in site is too much.

It’s Just Too Much.

Let me repeat that.

It’s Just Too Much.

Call me a bad Christian…tell me I’m not open to God’s plan because I’m not willing to keep going…do it…I dare you.

Heck, imply that I don’t love my children or believe that babies are beautiful or that any children are beautiful.
Tell me I’m just not open to life.

Because coming on a forum and declaring that us moms need to be open to life and not be afraid is not helpful in the least.

If I had a dollar for every time someone told me “you have your hands full” I would no longer be so worried about our very real financial situation.

Honestly…it’s post like these that make me want to scream and give up.

Just throw in the towel, get an IUD and throw it back into the face of every self-righteous Catholic out there.

The Catholics that read these threads and see the desperation some of us moms have and can only say we are too afraid and aren’t trusting in God’s plan for us.

I’ve been open to life for the entirety of my marriage.

I found out I was pregnant with a baby before I was married and gave up my career to get married, have my daughter and convert to Catholicism…instead of abortion or some other horrible decision I could have made.

I continued to be open to life and had 2 more kids in less then 3 years…I reached a level of desperation and was talked off the ledge from getting an IUD or getting my tubes tied in favor of abstinence by not only the compassionate people on this site but also my husband and my closest Catholic friends.

By the grace of God I’ll keep holding on for dear life to my faith.

But I’m through having kids. Done. It’s over. No more. Never again.

And it’s nonsense like this post that remind me that there are people out there that people just don’t get it.

 

[Allegra]

Keep in mind Kelfa, that you are really overwhelmed right now because you have three tiny kids all at once and a husband who has to be gone a lot for his job. You may feel differently about having children again in another five years when they have become far more manageable.

Being open to life doesn’t require that a couple have a new baby every year, and since in our culture, childhood seems to have been extended to 30 for many-if-not-most young people, nine is a tad bit unrealistic! I don’t think Fraggle is trying to imply that you aren’t doing your part because you have decided that three under-school-age is enough to handle at this given point in your life, particularly with everything else you have going on.

However, I do think he or she is right that in our society children and family life are seen as being a burdensome addition that sucks away time and energy from one’s “real life”. I think we should emphasize that family, regardless of the size, IS the “real life”. It’s what makes life worth living. We don’t have children as some sort of hobby to entertain ourselves when we aren’t pursuing our career ambitions or various other passions. It’s the other way around. Our strength comes from our relationships with our spouse and children. We form careers to support our family. As a society, our priorities are currently askew. I think Fraggle is on point there, even if in his enthusiasm he brushes over the physical difficulties of caring for multiple extremely dependent people all at once.

 

[alphawoman]

I understand why you are posting this, and I think it is admirable that you are encouraging openness to life. It’s true that God has untold grace, and that children are a major source of the disposition of that grace. It’s beautiful that you are so pro-child, and I hope that you are able to have as many children as you’d like without impediment if and when you seek that vocation.

The reality is, you are speaking as someone without children of her own, and, as a result, you have not experienced firsthand the thought process behind discernment around children. Being a committed aunt or uncle, or growing up in a large family, is akin to seeing your boss do her job as an entry level hire and assuming that you would automatically do better after taking over a task or two in the boss’ absence.

The decision to have a child is one that requires careful discernment between the spouses and God. The Church teaches that we are called to RESPONSIBLE parenthood, and only the couple know, on the margin, whether they have sufficient resources (physical, emotional, financial, temporal, spiritual, etc) to raise a new family member. There is no set number over which those resources could be exhausted: for some families, the conditions required to have a child may never occur. It is inappropriate to assume that, as third party bystanders with (rightfully) no information about the (name removed by moderator)uts into couples’ private discernment, we can superciliously judge their generosity or Catholicity

I was recently diagnosed with not just one, but two conditions that have caused my infertility for 80% of my marriage. The treatment of one–a tumour–might require removal of a large part of my reproductive system, which would severely, if not totally, impinge my ability to have further children. I have ONE child who was conceived early in my marriage who, for a host of private reasons that I will not be disclosing, I consider my miracle child. if I can’t reproduce more, is my one miracle is NOT ENOUGH?! He is my world, a light in our extended family, and an inspiration to adults to live the faith. Mary had one child. Was He not enough, too? These are the kinds of issues that most families will encounter in the discernment process. Most people around you are carrying heavy personal crosses that influence or determine fertility decisions.

If you had simply posted a pro-Family message, I would have encouraged you. But specifically suggesting that families whose decisions do not mirror those of your extended family are choosing poorly is uncharitable and belies a lack of understanding of Humanae Vitae.

 

[jlc2k2]

Sigh

Nope…all set.

I’m blessed with three.

Some parents are good with a smaller sized family. We’re done having kids.

If that means I don’t trust God then I probably shouldn’t be Catholic anymore.

Believe it or not there is a reality when it comes to not being able to cope with a large family and financial concerns, mental and emotional health are some of them.

It’s completely ridiculous to state that we aren’t trusting in God or are open enough to life because we don’t want to go beyond a certain number of children.

I can promise you I would be an absolutely miserable human being if I had another baby.

How do I know this? Because I’m maxed out with the three I have now.

My husband and I have been open to life but having so many kids in such a short time with no break or end in site is too much.

It’s Just Too Much.

Let me repeat that.

It’s Just Too Much.

Call me a bad Christian…tell me I’m not open to God’s plan because I’m not willing to keep going…do it…I dare you.

Heck, imply that I don’t love my children or believe that babies are beautiful or that any children are beautiful.
Tell me I’m just not open to life.

Because coming on a forum and declaring that us moms need to be open to life and not be afraid is not helpful in the least.

If I had a dollar for every time someone told me “you have your hands full” I would no longer be so worried about our very real financial situation.

Honestly…it’s post like these that make me want to scream and give up.

Just throw in the towel, get an IUD and throw it back into the face of every self-righteous Catholic out there.

The Catholics that read these threads and see the desperation some of us moms have and can only say we are too afraid and aren’t trusting in God’s plan for us.

I’ve been open to life for the entirety of my marriage.

I found out I was pregnant with a baby before I was married and gave up my career to get married, have my daughter and convert to Catholicism…instead of abortion or some other horrible decision I could have made.

I continued to be open to life and had 2 more kids in less then 3 years…I reached a level of desperation and was talked off the ledge from getting an IUD or getting my tubes tied in favor of abstinence by not only the compassionate people on this site but also my husband and my closest Catholic friends.

By the grace of God I’ll keep holding on for dear life to my faith.

But I’m through having kids. Done. It’s over. No more. Never again.

And it’s nonsense like this post that remind me that there are people out there that people just don’t get it.

I haven’t posted on your other threads Kelfa but I wanted to give you a hug. hugs You are a good mom and a good person based on everything I’ve read on CAF over the last few years. Please don’t ever forget that.

 

[jlc2k2]

I would just like to say that I am the youngest of nine children. Now, most people look down on big families, viewing them with disdain, but I do not. I believe that babies are indeed beautiful.

There are many people today who believe that it is not necessary to have that many kids, to only have a few and call it quits. Because babies after all, according to seculars, cost money, are noisy, and are smelly. I am fed up with this mentality. It is wrong, and it simply has to stop.

My father wanted to stop at five kids. I’m glad he didn’t however. I would not be here standing before you today writing this if he decided to end it. I wouldn’t be able to tell people about how the birth control pill causes abortions. That and norplant, the IUD, depo-provera, and jadelle. No. Not at all indeed. From me sending this information, countless people have thanked me, and I can only hope that countless lives have been saved. But I wouldn’t be able to do this…if I was not born.

Now, I have over 20 nieces and nephews. My brother has nine children. And my sister has six. Let me just tell you, they have filled places in my heart I didn’t know were empty. Each and every one of them has brought fulfillment and joy to my life. They are my rock, and I hope from my own existence I have been a rock as well.

Each child, made in God’s image is a blessing. One that is to be cherished, nurtured, and loved. By saying yes to life, we are saying yes to God on earth.

And they will have children some day. And their children’s children will have children. We erase whole legacies if we don’t say yes to life.

So, I ask you to be open to life, and to not be afraid. God will be with you. You will be blessed with each child you have- here on earth, and in eternity.

I agree with PP that your zeal for families is admirable but your execution is a bit lacking. You painted a very broad brush as if there is only one right way for a Catholic family to exist. It’s wonderful that that way worked for your extended family but that doesn’t mean it will work for everyone.

Also, please seriously re-read your comments and consider how that might sound to someone (like alphawoman and several others on these forums) who wants more children or even one child but can’t or is struggling to have them.

I would also caution you against talking about the creation of life as if it requires a trivial amount of effort and then completely passing over the on going efforts needed in caring for them. It doesn’t support your argument very well as it almost seems like all you care about is whether people have lots of kids and nothing else matters beyond that. I don’t think that was your intention but it could easily be construed that way.

 

[Kelfa28]

No kids?

Wait, OP doesn’t have any kids?

You have NO idea how hard this is. None.

Allegra, I appreciate your post but I highly doubt I will change my mind.

It will be 5 years before I have all school age kids and I’m not having a baby when I’m pushing 40.

I’ve had enough with the constant crosses I have to carry. I’m allowed to say no more and mean it.

 

[Anglewannabe]

My father wanted to stop at five kids. I’m glad he didn’t however. I would not be here standing before you today writing this if he decided to end it. I wouldn’t be able to tell people about how the birth control pill causes abortions. That and norplant, the IUD, depo-provera, and jadelle. No. Not at all indeed. From me sending this information, countless people have thanked me, and I can only hope that countless lives have been saved. But I wouldn’t be able to do this…if I was not born.

.

I have trouble believing countless people have thanked you. I suspect perhaps people with 1 or 2 kids have thanked you, I seriously doubt several mom’s with 9+ kids have thanked you. And I also suspect that you are not telling us about off the people who have told you where to go

 

[Anglewannabe]

Honestly…it’s post like these that make me want to scream and give up.

I can understand you feeling that way. The OP just showed the glamourous side of parenting and totally disregarded the other 90% of the equation, ie the real sacrifice parents make.

I am sorry you are finding your current situation so draining. But nonetheless, I feel a sisterly obligation to ask to please don’t give up on trusting God.

 

[Kelfa28]

Alphawoman and I’ll mention convert 99. You, and everyone else, are absolute saints to be handed infertility as a cross.

Clearly, it’s something I can’t imagine as I struggle with the complete opposite problem.

I don’t usually post about infertility because I just can’t relate and feel like I shouldn’t because it is so darn easy for me to have kids.

But you are saints.

That is a much harder cross to handle then I could imagine.

Prayers for you

 

[Lou2U]

I agree with Kelfa. A couple needs to decide when enough is enough.

I would just like to say that I am the youngest of nine children. Now, most people look down on big families, viewing them with disdain, but I do not. I believe that babies are indeed beautiful.

There are many people today who believe that it is not necessary to have that many kids, to only have a few and call it quits. Because babies after all, according to seculars, cost money, are noisy, and are smelly. I am fed up with this mentality. It is wrong, and it simply has to stop.

As an Agnostic, I’m guessing I am a secularist. Let’s be real here: babies do cost money, they are noisy and they do (at times) smell. This isn’t a mentality, it’s true. Financial issues are probably one of the main reasons why people decide they do not want to have any more children, and this shouldn’t be ignored. It isn’t wrong to decide that you cannot afford to have another child, and in my opinion, people should be considering if they can cope with another baby, financially, mentally and physically.

My father wanted to stop at five kids. I’m glad he didn’t however. I would not be here standing before you today writing this if he decided to end it. I wouldn’t be able to tell people about how the birth control pill causes abortions. That and norplant, the IUD, depo-provera, and jadelle. No. Not at all indeed. From me sending this information, countless people have thanked me, and I can only hope that countless lives have been saved. But I wouldn’t be able to do this…if I was not born.

It’s good that you have been able to make a difference with this. Remember though, there are medical reasons a woman may need to use birth control.

Now, I have over 20 nieces and nephews. My brother has nine children. And my sister has six. Let me just tell you, they have filled places in my heart I didn’t know were empty. Each and every one of them has brought fulfillment and joy to my life. They are my rock, and I hope from my own existence I have been a rock as well.

Your brother and sister are very lucky to be able to have this many children. Not everyone is afforded this luxury.

Each child, made in God’s image is a blessing. One that is to be cherished, nurtured, and loved. By saying yes to life, we are saying yes to God on earth.

And they will have children some day. And their children’s children will have children. We erase whole legacies if we don’t say yes to life.

So, I ask you to be open to life, and to not be afraid. God will be with you. You will be blessed with each child you have- here on earth, and in eternity.

There are also good reasons to say “I don’t want to have any more children” or “We cannot afford to have more children”. The biggest problem I can see with large families being held up as examples are that smaller families can be treated with disdain, and told that they are not being open to life. Infertile couples especially can be treated this way.

Lou

 

[Lou2U]

I have trouble believing countless people have thanked you. I suspect perhaps people with 1 or 2 kids have thanked you, I seriously doubt several mom’s with 9+ kids have thanked you. And I also suspect that you are not telling us about off the people who have told you where to go

Yes, I can’t imagine most people are receptive to being told this, and honestly? If people are on birth control, they probably don’t want children anyway.

I can understand you feeling that way. The OP just showed the glamourous side of parenting and totally disregarded the other 90% of the equation, ie the real sacrifice parents make.

Again, I agree. After the birth of my older brother, my mother suffered from PPD, and then the year before she had me, she suffered a stillbirth. Both with me and my older brother, my mother had c-sections and after the stillbirth, she was worried she would lose me as well (I was born at 30 weeks). After my mother had the stillbirth, she had to try and explain to my brother why the new baby wasn’t coming home, and when I was born, I had to stay in hospital for five weeks. My mother isn’t religious, and after all she went through, I doubt she would have appreciated being told that she was buying into a mentality that was “wrong”.

OP, I think you need to have a little more understanding as to why people may not want more than two or three children.

Lou

 

[alphawoman]

Aw, Kelfa, you’re sweet, but I’m no diffrent from you. God sees opportunities in all of us for personal growth and gives us the crosses we need to develop virtue. The individual circumstances may vary, but we’re all struggling to become the people we’re supposed to be. I’m going to PM you later.

 

[alphawoman]

I just want to reinforce that the factors behind making family planning decisions run the gamut. Here are some of the factors that have influenced our family and others in our community. Note that, often times, people are dealing with multiple challenges. Here’s a non-exhaustive list of possible reasons families might not have another child right now:

• Infertility
• Unpredictable fertility, such that NFP is difficult to discern and lots of abstinence is required to efficacy to be achieved
• Mental illness in self, spouse, or child
• Physical or developmental disabilities of self, spouse, or child
• Learning exceptionalities in child that require significant out of pocket expenditures and parental coaching
• Care of extended family
• Death of loved ones
• Infidelity, emotional or physical (incl. pornography)
• Addiction
• Unemploment, voluntary or involuntary (esp. chronic)
• Serious medical conditions in spouse, self, or child
• Life threatening allergies in child
• Strong predisposition to genetic disorders in family
• Physical and/or mental exhaustion from care of children, market employment
• Lack of family time due to economic need for work
• Lack of ability to finance development of talents in children through extra curricular activities
• Poverty
• Political instability
• Family instability
• Public school system teaching with low academic or moral standards
• Vocation to public service or work that requires a large time commitment or travel
• Volunteering
• Lack of community support network
• Grief from miscarriage or loss of born child
• Underaking vocational training
• Desire to be available as a grandparent to assist in childcare for own child(ren)
• Death of spouse, imminent or actual
• History of sexual abuse
• Self or spouse works on a reverse circadian schedule, or remotely
• uncertainty in family conditions
• Saving for retirement
• Requiring birth control medication as a therapeutic agent to treat a medical condition

And to make matters more complex, what constitutes a just reason to avoid having children varies across individuals based on their subjective conditions, and even within the same couple over time! That is why the Church offers so much latitude to couples in discerning family size! In the course of my marriage so far, 14 of those issues have applied, and we’re a family of only 3. Imagine the scope for challenges in families with one or more people–more moving variables equals more scope for competing responsibilities. I strongly suspect a large proportion of couples married 5-10+ years will have experienced multiple issues.

 

[Xantippe]

I understand why you are posting this, and I think it is admirable that you are encouraging openness to life. It’s true that God has untold grace, and that children are a major source of the disposition of that grace. It’s beautiful that you are so pro-child, and I hope that you are able to have as many children as you’d like without impediment if and when you seek that vocation.

The reality is, you are speaking as someone without children of her own, and, as a result, you have not experienced firsthand the thought process behind discernment around children. Being a committed aunt or uncle, or growing up in a large family, is akin to seeing your boss do her job as an entry level hire and assuming that you would automatically do better after taking over a task or two in the boss’ absence.

The decision to have a child is one that requires careful discernment between the spouses and God. The Church teaches that we are called to RESPONSIBLE parenthood, and only the couple know, on the margin, whether they have sufficient resources (physical, emotional, financial, temporal, spiritual, etc) to raise a new family member. There is no set number over which those resources could be exhausted: for some families, the conditions required to have a child may never occur. It is inappropriate to assume that, as third party bystanders with (rightfully) no information about the (name removed by moderator)uts into couples’ private discernment, we can superciliously judge their generosity or Catholicity

I was recently diagnosed with not just one, but two conditions that have caused my infertility for 80% of my marriage. The treatment of one–a tumour–might require removal of a large part of my reproductive system, which would severely, if not totally, impinge my ability to have further children. I have ONE child who was conceived early in my marriage who, for a host of private reasons that I will not be disclosing, I consider my miracle child. if I can’t reproduce more, is my one miracle is NOT ENOUGH?! He is my world, a light in our extended family, and an inspiration to adults to live the faith. Mary had one child. Was He not enough, too? These are the kinds of issues that most families will encounter in the discernment process. Most people around you are carrying heavy personal crosses that influence or determine fertility decisions.

If you had simply posted a pro-Family message, I would have encouraged you. But specifically suggesting that families whose decisions do not mirror those of your extended family are choosing poorly is uncharitable and belies a lack of understanding of Humanae Vitae.

Yes to all of this.

Sorry about the new health stuff–I hope you have good home support to get through it all.

 

[TeachCatechism]

Here’s another angle: babies aren’t for everyone. Some people don’t like kids, should they have one because they are told to? what will happen then is the baby will be abandoned or neglected. Other people like kids but hate people who don’t raise them properly. Others cant have them or can’t afford them.

 

[Allegra]

No kids?

Wait, OP doesn’t have any kids?

You have NO idea how hard this is. None.

Allegra, I appreciate your post but I highly doubt I will change my mind.

It will be 5 years before I have all school age kids and I’m not having a baby when I’m pushing 40.

I’ve had enough with the constant crosses I have to carry. I’m allowed to say no more and mean it.

You might or you might not. Either way, no one can say you haven’t done your part with the three you have. The OP seems to have forgotten that people tend to start much later nowadays. I married later on and I’m really hoping to get to three without health complications. Had I married young, I would have probably wanted more, but definitely not all at the same time! It’s hard enough to keep just one toddler from killing herself! I also come from a large family and can testify to the blessings, but my mother married a full decade younger than I did and she had a head start! By the time the younger ones came along, the older ones were responsible for a lot of the household. You can’t really recreate that environment in half the time! (And I’m not praying for quadruplets!)

 

[E_7]

Here’s another angle: babies aren’t for everyone. Some people don’t like kids, should they have one because they are told to? what will happen then is the baby will be abandoned or neglected. Other people like kids but hate people who don’t raise them properly. Others cant have them or can’t afford them.

A child is a gift. If a couple is healthy, fertile, able to conceive, financially stable, educated, and without babies, I don’t see why they shouldn’t have a baby but to be selfish. IMHO.

 

[E_7]

My sister is really poor. She just had her third baby and received many material gifts from the family. The doctor diagnosed her that if she falls pregnant again, she will be in a situation of choosing life between her and the baby. The doctor went and operated her after the c-section delivery.

 

[TeachCatechism]

A child is a gift. If a couple is healthy, fertile, able to conceive, financially stable, educated, and without babies, I don’t see why they shouldn’t have a baby but to be selfish. IMHO.

Many parents are selfish too. So it’s better for people who don’t want babies to have them instead of saving the world potential heartbreak? Not all people are cut out to be parents.