Babies are Beautiful.

[bitterhope]

Honestly the only person I ever heard say only children had it hard was an only child that used to visit my house. I just took it as a kids complaining like all kids do–kind of talking for the sake of talking. My husband was the only for several years and he has said the happiest day of his life was when his sister was born right before he turned 8, but that was more because he mom was so happy. She struggled with infertility. I know several one child families and none have mentioned people complaining that they only have one kid. Like I said, it might happen but I don’t hear that because people are too busy with their big family comments. I have a big family, why would they criticize my small family? As judgmental as this world has become I believe it might happen, but can anybody really say they don’t see a bias against big families? How many times even in catholic circles do people state their reasons that having more children is out of the question or equating another pregnancy to breeding indiscriminately or that they would rather do x,y,z for their kids versus having another child because that would benefit their kids SO much more than another personal relationship? Do you not see people denied adoption because they already have kids? Have you not noticed that moms with more than two, three or four kids are denied a helping hand that you seem to think means so much because, well, if they didn’t have so many kids they wouldn’t have those problems? Yes, the world is set up to make things hard for families of all sizes, but much more so for large families. Nobody blinks an eye at a mom with one child walking down the street but everyone stares and whispers when they see a mom with 4, 5, 6 or more.

 

[PaulinVA]

Just a slight political note here.

The US replacement rate is above the fertility rate, meaning that people are not having enough babies to sustain our population. Why is that important? Social Security. We need people paying in to support the boomers and beyond.

So, if you support or advocate small family size, you also must support expanding legal immigration to keep our country competitive in the world and our domestic programs going.

 

[runwaymodel]

IDK, having too many children just seems irresponsible to me.

 

[heidi_storage]

IDK, having too many children just seems irresponsible to me.

But what is “too many children”? I think the answer varies greatly from family to family. It’s probably best not to make nasty remarks about any family size. I know several large families in which everyone seems happy, smart, and well-adjusted. I know small families in which this is also true.

 

[bitterhope]

IDK, having too many children just seems irresponsible to me.

Thank you for proving my point. Even among Catholics, big families are seen as irresponsible.

 

[PaulinVA]

Thank you for proving my point. Even among Catholics, big families are seen as irresponsible.

And, yet, as I said in post #44, US fertility rates are below the replacement rates. So, people that decide to have bigger families are doing their part to keep our population stable and aren’t overpopulating the planet but working to keep us even.

 

[jmjZelie]

And, yet, as I said in post #44, US fertility rates are below the replacement rates. So, people that decide to have bigger families are doing their part to keep our population stable and aren’t overpopulating the planet but working to keep us even.

That is one of the things I keep in mind when I hear disparaging comments from others about my family size. Some people are just ignorant or misguided about how demographics and economy are interdependent but my kids will be the ones paying for their Social Security and pensions.

 

[jlc2k2]

Have you never heard people say that it’s sad to be an only child or that only children are selfish?

“Fifty years ago, when only children represented just 10 percent of all kids under age 18, “onlies” were often thought of as lonely, spoiled, and socially inept.”

parents.com/baby/development/sibling-issues/raising-only-child/

"“Don’t you get bored?” “What do you do all day?” “Don’t you wish you had siblings?”
Your child will be asked these questions, which will definitely become annoying and constantly put them on the defensive.”

abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/note-mothers-children-child/story?id=28055746

“But the notion that an only child might be a happy one contradicts strong cultural beliefs. According to these, children like mine will end up rotten with selfishness and beset by loneliness.”

nytimes.com/2013/06/09/opinion/sunday/only-children-lonely-and-selfish.html?_r=0

A number of the authors of these pieces are trying to rehabilitate only children, but I think the cultural forces they’re talking about are huge.

People who don’t want children at all get lots of grief about it from pretty much everybody.

Here’s an example:

“I’m 32 and partnered, so the condescending chatter about how I’ll change my mind when I get older or meet the right guy has finally died down. Ironically, nowadays most of the push against my choice doesn’t come from family or friends (very few of my friends have kids, I should note). It comes from strangers — people you meet at a party or are seated next to on an airplane — who start asking you invasive questions and then don’t like your answers. Lots of these people ask me why I hate kids, or what I’ll do to fill the hours if I don’t have a child to raise: two questions I am definitely not losing sleep over.”

refinery29.com/i-dont-want-kids#.d23eqt:RdFA

So for quick reference:

0 kids–you’ll change your mind
1 kid–when are you going to give Zoe a little brother or sister?
2 kids–a boy and a girl 2.75 years apart–how nice!
3-4 kids–polite silence
5+ kids–you should get cable!

Yes. I’m an only and I know my parents got comments. My husband is the middle child of 7 and I know they got comments. I have heard coworkers comment about how they don’t understand why anyone would have more than 2 kids. Then they notice me standing there and tack on "on purpose. " I get a pass because of the twins thing.

I’ve heard people with two or more of the same gender get asked when they are going to try for that boy/girl. I’ve heard those with the one boy and one girl get told they can be done now (even though the parents want more).

I really don’t think anyone is immune from others commenting on their family size/mix.

 

[Allegra]

Yes. I’m an only and I know my parents got comments. My husband is the middle child of 7 and I know they got comments. I have heard coworkers comment about how they don’t understand why anyone would have more than 2 kids. Then they notice me standing there and tack on "on purpose. " I get a pass because of the twins thing.

I’ve heard people with two or more of the same gender get asked when they are going to try for that boy/girl. I’ve heard those with the one boy and one girl get told they can be done now (even though the parents want more).

I really don’t think anyone is immune from others commenting on their family size/mix.

You’re probably right, but there is also a significant difference in assuming that an ideal family has one boy and one girl, and insisting that anything more than that is “irresponsible” or “immoral”. I’ve had some people ask me if I will be “done” when my son in born, since we will have one of both, and I don’t really find that offensive. I found it offensive when a cousin asked me why one “wasn’t enough”. I don’t even think that commenting on the downsides of being an only child is the same thing as saying that a parent is selfish for only having one.

 

[jlc2k2]

You’re probably right, but there is also a significant difference in assuming that an ideal family has one boy and one girl, and insisting that anything more than that is “irresponsible” or “immoral”. I’ve had some people ask me if I will be “done” when my son in born, since we will have one of both, and I don’t really find that offensive. I found it offensive when a cousin asked me why one “wasn’t enough”. I don’t even think that commenting on the downsides of being an only child is the same thing as saying that a parent is selfish for only having one.

There is also a difference between asking if you are done yet and saying "oh good, you can be done now. " I don’t disagree that bigger families get comments. I’ve heard them. I know they happen. All I’m saying is that I think most families have others make comments about their families and for some of them (even small ones) it goes beyond asking and moves into a place of telling them what they should do (whether it be having more kids or less) or judging them for what they have already chosen (or had chosen for them).

 

[Xantippe]

Honestly the only person I ever heard say only children had it hard was an only child that used to visit my house. I just took it as a kids complaining like all kids do–kind of talking for the sake of talking. My husband was the only for several years and he has said the happiest day of his life was when his sister was born right before he turned 8, but that was more because he mom was so happy. She struggled with infertility. I know several one child families and none have mentioned people complaining that they only have one kid. Like I said, it might happen but I don’t hear that because people are too busy with their big family comments. I have a big family, why would they criticize my small family? As judgmental as this world has become I believe it might happen, but can anybody really say they don’t see a bias against big families? How many times even in catholic circles do people state their reasons that having more children is out of the question or equating another pregnancy to breeding indiscriminately or that they would rather do x,y,z for their kids versus having another child because that would benefit their kids SO much more than another personal relationship? Do you not see people denied adoption because they already have kids? Have you not noticed that moms with more than two, three or four kids are denied a helping hand that you seem to think means so much because, well, if they didn’t have so many kids they wouldn’t have those problems? Yes, the world is set up to make things hard for families of all sizes, but much more so for large families. Nobody blinks an eye at a mom with one child walking down the street but everyone stares and whispers when they see a mom with 4, 5, 6 or more.

I think your situation is more visible to you because…it’s your situation.

In my family, one of my cousins had just one daughter for a while. Oh, how spoiled we thought she was! (She used to get to blow her birthday candles out as many times as she wanted–shocking!) There was so much rejoicing when she got a baby brother!

And that in an extended family that has 2-4 kids as a rule.

Childless people also face tremendous pressure to be average. If you were childless or listened more to childless people, you’d realize that.

I was just googling “don’t want to have kids bingo” and while there are many versions, here’s one:

i.imgur.com/OZhtC42.jpg

I think there’s a lot of pressure to stick EXACTLY to the median. So less is bad and (as you see) more is bad, too. But there’s only a small “good” range, which probably varies a lot by ethnicity, socioeconomic level and region. I feel like in our area (Southern, lots of Baptists) 2-4 is the norm for middle class married families, whereas in the more expensive areas of the country 2 children is a lot. For instance, where we used to live in suburban MD and DC, it would have been an incredible struggle to afford the “basic” $400k house in a basic neighborhood with basic/iffy public schools. And it would have been a struggle to do that even if we’d just had two kids and I’d gone back to work as quickly as possible. In that area of the country, the social norms reflects the actual realities of raising children there.

 

[Xantippe]

I never experienced any pressure from my family to produce grandkids right now but there are a number of people in my family that I expect have experienced exactly that.

One of my aunties has two married professional sons who were, for the longest time, distressingly childless. When auntie was around my school son a few years ago, it was obvious she was just DYING for a grandchild of her own. I believed she paid for some sort of corrective surgery for her older son’s wife and they finally had a baby a year or so ago–auntie’s only grandchild–when older son was well into his 30s. Younger son and his wife are still holdouts (although they’re only around 30 right now). They’ll give in eventually…

If anything, I suspect the pressure to have children can be worse in smaller families. There’s a real risk in a one or two child family that there will be no next generation.

 

[runwaymodel]

Thank you for proving my point. Even among Catholics, big families are seen as irresponsible.

And yet this is a topic many Catholics (or just people in general) have different opinions on. In the end the Catholics who want smaller families vs large families tend to balance itself out. I don’t agree with people who have very big families (over 5+ is just too much) but that’s just My opinion.

 

[pensmama87]

If anything, I suspect the pressure to have children can be worse in smaller families. There’s a real risk in a one or two child family that there will be no next generation.

I know my husband felt some of that (though I think he put more pressure on himself). He was the last one in his family. Now that we’ll have three sons, he’s much more relaxed. We have a decent chance of continuing.

(That said, I’ve experienced lots of “sympathy” that “I’ll never have a daughter.” Apparently three was OK as long as we were trying to even out the gender ratio, but beyond three? Unthinkable. )

 

[Xantippe]

I know my husband felt some of that (though I think he put more pressure on himself). He was the last one in his family. Now that we’ll have three sons, he’s much more relaxed. We have a decent chance of continuing.

(That said, I’ve experienced lots of “sympathy” that “I’ll never have a daughter.” Apparently three was OK as long as we were trying to even out the gender ratio, but beyond three? Unthinkable. )

Funny!

 

[Sarcelle]

That is one of the things I keep in mind when I hear disparaging comments from others about my family size. Some people are just ignorant or misguided about how demographics and economy are interdependent but my kids will be the ones paying for their Social Security and pensions.

There won’t be any Social Security by the time I retire.

However, euthanasia is being promoted nowadays and by retirement age I will in all likelihood be euthanized against my will.This should take care of the excess senior population.

 

[Allegra]

There won’t be any Social Security by the time I retire.

However, euthanasia is being promoted nowadays and by retirement age I will in all likelihood be euthanized against my will.This should take care of the excess senior population.

That’s the spirit!

 

[jmjZelie]

There won’t be any Social Security by the time I retire.

However, euthanasia is being promoted nowadays and by retirement age I will in all likelihood be euthanized against my will.This should take care of the excess senior population.

I fear these societal changes, too. I was trying to be funny in my earlier post, but unfortunately Social Security is failing and euthanasia is being legalized in more states now. In certain countries of Northern Europe, there are reports that elderly and disabled children and sick infants are being euthanized by doctors illegally and without family awareness as a matter of course in some hospitals. It is sorrowful and it is more evidence of what Pope Francis refers to as the throwaway culture.

My husband and I fully expect to need to rely on the magnanimity of our children to take care of us in our old age, because it will be a tremendous burden when the culture of death accomplishes its full agenda.

 

[ela2]

What Kelfa said.

 

[bitterhope]

How many of these biases do large families share with other families?

Housing–people use fire code laws to deny renting to people with lots of kids. Yes, we could fight them over it (discrimination), but who wants a year long lease with someone who clearly is going to give you trouble?

Jobs–people with large families get passed over for jobs simply for having too many kids. Again, yes you can fight it, but why work for someone that is going to be looking for ways to let you go legally? And some jobs such as embassy duty and some military assignments are not open to people who have custody of more than 4 children. You can’t really fight the military over their requirements.

Emergencies–first thing mentioned is if you didn’t have X number of kids you would have prevented whatever went wrong. A local family lost 2 children in a house. They were able to escape with 7 children. First responders and neighbors all talked about if they didn’t have so many kids they could of all gotten out. I drove a friend to the ER because her son fell off a ladder, broke some ribs, got a concussion and needed stitches. The dr never asked why her four year old was on the ladder, just says that stuff like that happens and it’s nobody’s fault. The mom in the next bed (separated by a curtain) had an older kid that wrecked his bike and needed stitches. The same ER nurse and dr that were reassuring this mom of one were telling the other mom that if she hadn’t been so distracted taking care of her other three kids her son wouldn’t have gotten hurt. Four kids are just too many to keep watch of. My friend was shocked and asked me if people really do say those things to me because she had never noticed until that ER visit. She have the dr a piece of her mind too. The mom in the next bed thanked her for it. Normally moms of many don’t have people step in for us like that. A local Mennonite family a couple years back had a buggy accident and lost their six children and a neighbor child. Yes, if they hadn’t had so many kids they wouldn’t have lost them all. I guess somehow if there were only two kids the dump truck wouldn’t have hit the buggy or whatever.

Education–if a child has learning disabilities parents are accused of not spending enough time helping their child succeed academically because there are too many kids to work with. Lots of only children are learning disabled too, but for them is it viewed as neglect? I had a teacher one year tell me how well mannered my kids are for having so many because usually large families have really bad kids. Then she asked if all my kids live with me since there is no way I could possibly care so well for all of them if they did. Five kids is just too many for one family to properly raise.

It’s not just neighbors, friends and relatives that give large families rude comments. It’s not Hollywood movies or news reports. Every day we run into obstacles most people don’t even know exist.