Babies At Mass

[djrakowski]

BTW, I did mass alone with my kids too (Protestant husband) but would NEVER just sit there when someone starts to cry. If a child has a neurological problem, it’s another matter. I’ll get DJRakowski in here to explain what it is like with children with special needs and how bad it is for THEM when parents ignore their kids without neurological problem.

you rang?

My wife and I are the proud parents of 4 very beautiful children. Additionally, we’re converts, so the kids are trying to learn how to behave in church, which is a big change from the constant stimulation they received in evangelical Sunday school.

My kids try really heard, and know what’s expected of them every week. Even though their little bodies are motor-driven, and they’re sensitive to smells, sounds and sights, they work hard to live up to our expectations. And we work equally as hard to remind them of our expectations, which requires constant verbal reminders and an occasional firm hand - a tiring and stressful experience for the whole clan.

Our kids do really well until some other kid nearby sets a bad example. When parents allow their kids to eat, play with toys, walk on/crawl under the pews, speak at living room volumes and turn to make faces at/talk to our kids, it causes no end of frustration for our family.

My wife and I work hard at being Catholic and behaving in a reverent and respectful manner at church, which is why I get so upset when others don’t exert the same effort in controlling their neurotypical children as we do with our autistic children. It isn’t so much that kids misbehave, or need reminders to behave as they ought in church. I’m bothered more when parents sit by and let this take place without exerting any effort to correct the problem behaviors.

I’m also mindful that there may be other issues, as well, so I try not to be too sensitive about this matter. Just as the case with our kids, who don’t appear too much different than other kids, they may be dealing with neurological issues, as well. But I appreciate when the parents involved in the situation at least try.

Suffer the little children to come unto me means all children. Not just yours. When yours are bouncing off the walls and you are lost in prayer, DJRakowski’s kids and mine (in times past) got wound up too.

Indeed. Thanks for explaining it this way.

Dan

 

[mom2boyz]

When you are irritated, pray for the children. It will take your mind off yourself. Heaven knows all children need our prayers. Offer it as a sacrifice which will be considerably less than hanging on the cross which our Lord did for those crying childen too. Try ignoring it. Most of us with children do. The more you are exposed the better you get at ignoring it. Finally rejoice. It means there are future Catholic to praise God.

My oldest was horrible in Mass when he was little. We spent a lot of time in the cry room which I firmly believe didn’t help him learn to behave, but I’m sure it did count toward fewer days in purgatory for us. Raising children is difficult enough without so much criticism.

 

[carol_marie]

All I ask for is a beautiful Mass without distractions… I’d LOVE to be able to concentrate fully on the Consecration without experiencing evil thoughts towards children… ! It hasn’t happened in YEARS.
.

I think the OP must be distracted by more than just this one babbling child. It sounds as if he is distracted by other children as well as he said he hasn’t been able to concentrate in YEARS.

I think the mass with the monks is probably a good idea.

Whenever we have threads like this there are always the two camps… those who say kids should be welcomed in mass & those who think that parents shouldn’t let their children’s awful behavior ruin it for everyone. I agree with both. A babbling child - no big deal. Babies babble. A SCREAMING toddler - take him out until he calms down.

And I second the comment that the ringing cell phone is MUCH more annoying. Without fail, we hear SEVERAL during every single mass.

 

[connecian]

Although I have not children, I would like to chime in please.
I believe that children need to be in the liturgy. Yes, if a child starts to cry and will not stop, by all means a parent may want to step out as to not distract others.

However, in 1968 my uncle, who was deaf, attended mass with my grandparents and aunts and uncles. Because he was unable to hear, it was difficult for him to sit still, as with most young children.

On one occasion, many parish members became upset as y uncle ( only a child of 4 mind you) went up on the alter and sat next to the priest. ( the vibrations on the floor I believe)
Many people complained that he was a distraction. The priest addressed it as such from what I was told… “if you are paying attention to the child, then you are not paying attention to the mass. This child was trying to do his best to pay attention the way he knew best.”
While this may not be acceptable, the priest allowed it as he knew the circumstances.
Also he was the youngest of 13 children. All my aunts and uncles were in the church from the day born. So as they would become familiar with the mass.

I heart felt believe that the children are not a distraction during mass, that they are indeed very attuned to what his going on.
I welcome families to attend mass.

As a side note, and a joke i heard once from a priest, when a child cried during his homily
" maybe it was a boring homily, at least I had one parishioner honest enough to tell me"

 

[JezuUfamTobie]

…Not even if the reason for their intolerance is neurological, i.e., inability to tolerate loud, shrieking sound due to Asperger’s, adult ADHD, panic attacks, bipolar disorder, post-traumatic reaction, etc.? Does that still make them anti-life and uncharitable?

Of course not. But these folks are the exception, whereas all children make at least a little noise some of the time and this is normal. We can’t be expected to seat all children in the back or apart in a special room in order to accomodate people who are hyper-sensitive to noise.

netmil(name removed by moderator) and djrakowski: by “noise” I mean of the sudden variety–i.e. Junior screeches, mom tries to quiet him and takes him immediately out of the church if her attempt fails. I’m not defending parents who do not parent. That’s a bit frustrating for all of us. I’m just saying that good moms shouldn’t have to sit in back every Sunday just in case Junior utters one of these screeches and needs to be removed for a period of time.

I never let my son “bounce off the walls” in church. I am considerate. I just woudn’t want to want to be criticized, set apart, glared at, or written about on the internet for a screech that I can’t control and to which I promptly attend, or for the quiet interjections my toddler makes every now and then during mass. These occasional noises are just a fact of life and a part of having children around. You can’t achieve perfect silence every single Sunday even with good discipline. (You would also need duct tape )

To me it sounded like the family the OP referred to did attend to their child (hushing him, taking him to the back). Perhaps they should have left the building completely. But he isn’t just talking about that family and I have a hard time believing that the OP has only encountered irresponsible parents for the past few years. I only see them (outside of the cry room) every blue moon. I’m sorry if I’m mistaken, but I get the impression that he is also referring to the normal noises that even well-disciplined children make.

 

[johnnykins]

Back when the TLM was the Missa Normativa, there often was a children’s Mass - usually at 9AM in many parishes. Today I suspect a children’s Mass in the Tridentine rite would be highly unusual. Note it was the same Mass, just that families with young children would attend to try to leave the other Masses less disturbed by them. It was rare to see children, especially infants and toddlers, at High Mass. In any even, children were always taken to Mass back then - and there were no crying rooms. Yes, sometimes children were taken out and returned. Children are children and need training - simple as that. As adults that’s a big part of our job.

I remember attending Mass in Paris about 10 years ago. I sat in the back. A family with a young boy sat in front of me. He wiggled, jiggled, whined and talked. Mom and dad were on him the entire time. All the old ladies and old men glared at him trying to reinforce the need to act appropriately. It was a group effort in trying to civilize and control the little barbarian. At one point dad picked him up very authoritatively, and as the tot came up his hands instinctively covered his backside.

I relate the story because it’s all part of life and Mass. We have to deal with children. Children should go to Mass - IMHO. That means they need to be taught and learn how to act. We all need to help the parents. Is it disturbing - yes. Can it be annoying - yes. Life is filled with disturbances and annoyances. Certainly there are times we’d rather concentrate without the distraction, but perhaps we could try to offer it up for the child, the parents, the parish, the Church and our own sins?

 

[netmilsmom]

Try ignoring it. Most of us with children do. The more you are exposed the better you get at ignoring it.

You really need to read post 18.
You have proven the point to a tee.

You ignore the problem and my kids act out. Now more kids act out and some can’t help but act out.

How about this? Instead of ignoring and expecting everyone else to ignore, how about if you put in an effort to your child. Because when you ignore it’s not like it has magically gone away. If you spent your time in the cryroom ignoring the behavior of your child, no wonder the child got nothing out of it. The cryroom is the place where parents can use an audible voice to correct, not the kid can act in any way they feel like.
And in the meantime, the child that you are ignoring is setting off the other kids in the church. You get your prayer time and no one else does.

 

[Catholic90]

I can even remember going and sitting in the bathroom to nurse.

Hopefully it was a bathroom that a had a nice plush chair in it. I sincerely hope you didn’t have to sit on the toilet or on the floor to nurse.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

I thought I had posted this earlier but perhaps I only thought it. While most of what I have to say has already been said there is one more thing. We have found that by removing many of the pews our children have room to teach the adults how to worship. Remove a screaming child but other than that let them move about. If you are really “getting” worship you will learn from them.

CDL

 

[netmilsmom]

netmil(name removed by moderator) and djrakowski: by “noise” I mean of the sudden variety–i.e. Junior screeches, mom tries to quiet him and takes him immediately out of the church if her attempt fails. I’m not defending parents who do not parent. That’s a bit frustrating for all of us. I’m just saying that good moms shouldn’t have to sit in back every Sunday just in case Junior utters one of these screeches and needs to be removed for a period of time.

Why not?
You are in the back of the church, you are still in the church. What’s wrong with that? I did it with my kids and though nothing of it. I’m still in Holy Mass and blessed with the God Given responsibility of parenting. You could be childless and have prayer time. Think about it.
You said this…

Do you think that my prayers as a mother are worth less to God than yours, because I have a small child to attend to and I can only rarely concentrate all my attention on the mass? Mothers are already carrying a heavy burden, and it increases our load to hear unkind comments about the noise our little ones make.

And it makes you sound like you are playing the marytr role when you should be looking at the blessings of the Mother role. You don’t have twenty years of babbling baby. Two maybe. Give it up for the poor souls. Look for the blessings instead of the afront.
DJRakowski will have this for many years with his children. You are blessed that it will end at sometime for you.

 

[starling]

You’re a Catholic. In Catholicism, children are not hidden away in the church basement or an annex. That’s the tradition. Live with it. In my view, this is one of the great, beautiful things of the Catholic Church, more beautiful than any liturgic aspect or ritual. Children are one of the greatest expressions of God Himself. Jesus made that very clear. Mass is not a piece of theatre designed for our personal entertainment.

 

[JezuUfamTobie]

… you should be looking at the blessings of the Mother role…

Where on earth did I state that the challenges of parenthood are not blessings? Or that I don’t think about my blessings? What does that have to do with the subject at hand?

 

[b_justb]

I notice the OP hasn’t replied back after his first post ever here at CAF … If you’re still reading your thread - maybe just go to a mass where the audience doesn’t include children. Catholic University nearby? Seminary? Chapel of a monastery?

Kids are kids and they are welcome to Mass. We are all part of the body of Christ. Find your spot and enjoy.

 

[netmilsmom]

Where on earth did I state that the challenges of parenthood are not blessings? Or that I don’t think about my blessings? What does that have to do with the subject at hand?

Mothers are already carrying a heavy burden, and it increases our load to hear unkind comments about the noise our little ones make.

Perhaps burden was a poor choice of word.

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

JamesAnthony…do you feel like you have been “run off?” Don’t let them get to you, because I am in total agreement with you.

I love kids…have 2 grown children and a 6 year old autistic grandson. Please don’t say that I don’t love kids when I say what I am going to…disruptive children should be taken to the cry room. IMO…that is all there is to it. Why should I strain to hear what is being said in the homily or the words fo the consecration because some Mom or Dad refuse to deal with their fussy child? We have a CRY ROOM in our new chuch for children who CRY…and even in the bulletin it was stated to take the children there so as to not disrupt. It seems to me that if you are not happy as a lark with little baby Sue or toddler John crying, fussing, yelling then you are less of a Catholic or YOU should deal with it. Sorry, I don’t feel like dealing with parents who have no problem with their disruptive children and let them do as they wish.

My grandson has accompanied me to Mass…and he has behaved very well…an like I said he is autistic. I crossed my fingers when the bells rang at consecration because sounds bother him, but he took it in stride. If he hadn’t we would have went to the cry room where he could have played or read a book. I would not have thought that my right to bring him to Mass was more important than the rights of others to see and hear what is going on.

One person here summed it up well when she said we should ignore the crying children as the parents have learned to do. Sorry, ignore them at home if you must, but not at Mass. What about those who are hard of hearing…should they not be able to hear what is going on because you are too stubborn to take your children where they cannot disrupt?

:heart:Blyss

 

[CRW]

Matthew 19:14
Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”

Those parents are doing their job - bringing their children to mass. Perhaps they should sit in the back, but maybe the children actually behave better when they can see what’s going on? I think you just need to get over it. That little boy that drives you nuts may grow up to be a Priest someday.

I agree that they need to attend Mass but if a crying room is available, by all means use the crying room.

 

[kim3260]

ALL Children belong in Mass. There should not even be a problem here. When does the OP suggest children go to Mass 6 months prior to their 1st Commuion?
There is a new family in our Parish who do not have a baby but a handicap teenager (I guess around 15) His mother and father are usually always there, (they are around late 50’s and early 60’s) and sometimes the grandma with her oxygen tank.
Someone might say that this family is a distraction, they are nice quiet folks who just moved here. Seeing them is a pleasant affirming of celebrating all life, not just the perfect. I actually enjoy the boy’s sweet humming, by no means does it take away from the “Beauty of the Mass”

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

I agree that they need to attend Mass but if a crying room is available, by all means use the crying room.

Exactly!! Otherwise why would it be there and marked plainly CRY ROOM?

:heart:Blyss

 

[Karin]

Exactly!! Otherwise why would it be there and marked plainly CRY ROOM?

:heart:Blyss

it is marked plainly for the simple matter that adults that whine and moan about kids at mass need to go there so **they **can cry and moan and complain with other adults that feel the same way they do

Now I can honestly say I am very happy that our Parish finds no need to build on a crying room or lock the kiddies in the basement while mass is going on**…ALL are WELCOME** regardless of age, color handicap etc!

 

[CRW]

it is marked plainly for the simple matter that adults that whine and moan about kids at mass need to go there so **they **can cry and moan and complain with other adults that feel the same way they do

Now I can honestly say I am very happy that our Parish finds no need to build on a crying room or lock the kiddies in the basement while mass is going on**…ALL are WELCOME** regardless of age, color handicap etc!

In the spirit of Christian charity (love) why do you feel that a crying room is not the appropriate place for children to learn the discipline required at Mass. It provides the parents the opportunity to discussed the Mass with their children, providing instructions of why the priest is doing what he is doing. A great training environment and one that allows minimum distraction to the parish as a community.

Our crying room is adequately furnished, speakers, pews, chairs, missals, song books, etc. It provides a excellent view of the altar.

I, as a parent and blessed with twin grandsons, cannot understand why parents have a negative view on the crying room. Disturbances that is not allowed at a movie are allowed at the most sacred offering of our Lord at Mass.

Additionally, the damage allowed by parents to the Missals, songs books, etc., is outrages. As sacristan, I have to clean up and fix the mess after each Mass. Although each has it’s place, the parents seem to be too occupied to clean up and restore these to the proper placed. Most have been torn, color on, etc. Simple RESPECT.