Babies At Mass

[Tom317]

Okay,
Here’s the deal.

We young families with babies, toddlers or any age kids need to be seen, heard and celebrated. **Just like the **tabernacle they want to put us in a closet off to the side, an ISOLATION CHAMBER!

The Plan: We will call it Humanae Vitae Sunday. We will spread out throughout the church the front, the middle, the back and those who arrive late without kids(no excuse by the way) will have to sit in the vacant “Cry Room” and watch our happy and sometimes noisy families from the glass window.As we wave to them from our seats they will strain to hear the homily. During Communion they will bashfully emerge from the isolation chamber for a brief moment of ecclesial union and then dutifully return.

We will wear buttons with pictures of Pope Paul VI and JPII on them. Buttons that say Long Live Humanae Vitae, Kids are Good, or “Let the Children Come To Me!”, Pro-Life-Pro Family.

We will “Take Back Our Church”, from the anti-family Fanatics!

If you are serious, then I say: Awesome!

 

[Franciscan]

BlyssfulDreamer,

–4,00,000 murdered babies each year.
–Hundreds of millions of babies contracepted each year.
–Couples “choosing” to have one child, perhaps two, because they do not want their personal lifestyles interupted.
–Divorce rates at incredible numbers with many parents placing their kids in the middle of the evil fray as weapons to get what they want out of the divorce.
–Kids stuffed in daycares across the land so that both parents can feel free to work in any manner they personally choose (admittely in some cases the two incomes are a must and in those cases there are few alternatives).
–Fathers who are absent in reality and in child support.
–Mothers who are absent in reality and in child support.
–Couples choosing to not get married even though they have kids and do not give a whit what impact that has on their children.
–Emryonic stem cell research and cloing coming to a town near you in the near future, allowing the killing of even more human lives.
–Catholics who think children must be perfect angels during Mass and give parents dirty looks when their kids let out even the smallest of cries…this has happened to me many times and I have seen it happen many times.
–Catholics who think baptism is increasingly just an option.
–Catholics who think teaching the faith is increasingly just an option.
on-and-on-and-on-and-on…

Sure, the world is not hostile to children.

Add - allowing Homosexuals to artificially pro-create or adopt.

The next time I see a large family at Church I am going to congratulate them on their beautiful family.

 

[mom2boyz]

Why should current parents correct these other parents? I would think those who have been parents have more wisdom in this area. I would think if it is bothering them, then maybe God has placed on their hearts to do something. They are not bothering me. And frankly I don’t even notice them most of the time. I’m either trying to pay attention to Mass or paying attention to my children.

How I hate the cry room! :banghead:

 

[Tom317]

Add - allowing Homosexuals to artificially pro-create or adopt.

The next time I see a large family at Church I am going to congratulate them on their beautiful family.

That happened to my wife and I once after Mass (take note: once). We have a fairly large family and after Mass a man approached us smiling saying that we had a beautiful family. Our kids did not behave perfectly that day and he was seated fairly close to us, yet he still gave us the compliment and it was quite refreshing to hear.

It is such a shame that even in a Catholic environment large families are not celebrated as they should be.

 

[Verita]

Whatever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me. Those that are bothered, are the least too.

The difference of course is that nothing is being done to them.

Frankly, it’s because of those who look down on parents with noisy children that I’ve missed so many Masses. I have a noisy daughter. I used to be afraid to go to Mass with her because she was so noisy and I didn’t want to disturb people. When she got a bit older and a bit more controllable we started going again though she still made noise (mostly loud, happy noises). What we discovered was that after every Mass the priest on his way out would stop at our pew to smile and greet our daughter. He knew she was making noise. But it was ok with him. And if the priest doesn’t mind no one else has any right to complain.

I have a loud child. I do try to contain her as much as possible. But I also don’t want to repress her. I don’t want to stop her curiosity and interest in Church and Mass. And it comes down to if I spend all of my energy trying to shush my daughter’s questions and exclaimations of joy and meowing, I’ll completely miss the Mass myself. And I have a right to enjoy it as much as anyone.

 

[mom2boyz]

I look longingly at large families and wish we could be one. Unfortunately, we carry the infertility cross so it will never be. You and your noisy children are a blessing!

 

[Tom317]

The difference of course is that nothing is being done to them.

Frankly, it’s because of those who look down on parents with noisy children that I’ve missed so many Masses. I have a noisy daughter. I used to be afraid to go to Mass with her because she was so noisy and I didn’t want to disturb people. When she got a bit older and a bit more controllable we started going again though she still made noise (mostly loud, happy noises). What we discovered was that after every Mass the priest on his way out would stop at our pew to smile and greet our daughter. He knew she was making noise. But it was ok with him. And if the priest doesn’t mind no one else has any right to complain.

I have a loud child. I do try to contain her as much as possible. But I also don’t want to repress her. I don’t want to stop her curiosity and interest in Church and Mass. And it comes down to if I spend all of my energy trying to shush my daughter’s questions and exclaimations of joy and meowing, I’ll completely miss the Mass myself. And I have a right to enjoy it as much as anyone.

Just do your best and don’t worry about the rest. God bless you.

 

[Tom317]

I look longingly at large families and wish we could be one. Unfortunately, we carry the infertility cross so it will never be. You and your noisy children are a blessing!

God Bless you!

 

[valient_Lucy]

Okay… my intention is not to offend. Perhaps I’m just venting?
Today I attended a Tridentine Mass in Central Florida. (I prefer it to the Novus Ordo.) I’ve attended it on numerous occasions.
As expected, Mom and Dad and their four little children berthed in the second row, where everyone can see (and hear) them. (They have been at every one of these Masses that I go to, perhaps once every couple of months.) Dad read the Epistle, so apparently he has some intimate connection with this service.
As expected, the youngest child whined, cried, screamed, and babbled during the ENTIRE hour-- no exaggeration. The requisite shushing and hushing and bringing-to-the-back was performed, to no avail; and every time that little boy opened his mouth, my shoulders tensed. The entire second row was like a circus.
All I ask for is a beautiful Mass without distractions… I’d LOVE to be able to concentrate fully on the Consecration without experiencing evil thoughts towards children… ! It hasn’t happened in YEARS. I’m tempted to start attending Masses at the retreat center up the road-- just me and the monks.
Thoughts? Similar experiences? Should I grin and bear it? Should babies be barred from the Tridentine Mass? Should I worship with the monks? Should this family sit in the back? I would DEARLY love to devote my mind entirely to a Mass and experience it fully.

Here’s something that worked for me.
Every time a child cries during Mass, I pray, “Almighty God, please give the child a vocation to the priesthood or religious life.”
After that, you’ll start to view the children a little bit differently.

 

[tadly]

Tom, your heart is hard brother. You need to let your resentment go for those who have hurt you. You cannot expect your prayers to be accepted by Our Lord if you still hate.

The blind man did not come to the Lord and say, strike down those who have treated me badly.
He said, “Heal me.”

Sometimes one must say I’m sorry when nothing has been done. By continually insulting and belittling the problems of others, we don’t make peace.

To the poster who said that the seniors are not hurt by loud children, neither are your children by the admonision of others, you are. And physical pain is real with loud noices and hearing aids.

To the poster who wants to put those in insolation while the families take up the church, it may well be the best solution. When the throat mike from father is piped in, they would have the blessed silence they need.
Why does the solution always need to be from a mean point of view? Why can’t we work together for peace?

I have to stop posting because of time, but I truly wish that everyone here would forgive. Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with ME. You can’t change anyone else.

 

[Tom317]

Tom, your heart is hard brother. You need to let your resentment go for those who have hurt you. You cannot expect your prayers to be accepted by Our Lord if you still hate.

LOL, you could not be more wrong. My heart is not hard at all, I just am passionate about life and will defend it at all turns. I have already prayed for people here and I truly do love them, I simply passionately strand against their anti-child positions.

The blind man did not come to the Lord and say, strike down those who have treated me badly.
He said, “Heal me.”

LOL again. I do not wish God to strike down anyone, the exact opposite, I pray the Lord will fill their hearts with His love and grace so that they will soften their stance towards parents and children.

Sometimes one must say I’m sorry when nothing has been done. By continually insulting and belittling the problems of others, we don’t make peace.

Well, if I felt I had something to apologize for, I would do so instantly. Yet, I feel others on this thread owe us hard working parents who love kids an apology.

Why does the solution always need to be from a mean point of view? Why can’t we work together for peace?

Mainly because life and children are under constant assult in this culture, and even though you cannot see it, this thread reflects some of that anti-child attitudes…I truly believe that the people who hold that view do not even know they do, they are not being mean on purpose, nor am I or anyone else here.

You can’t change anyone else.

I agree completely. Yet, perhaps my words can make them think twice before they bash parents again–perhaps they will just keep their anti-child attitudes to themselves in the future, I can certainly hope they will.

 

[awindrose]

WOW is this thread still going?

The horse meat must be really really tender with all the beating this dead horse has gotten!

 

[marci]

OK, I know I said I wouldn’t post again, but forgive me, I can’t help myself. It is amazing to me how many posters have refered to me as anti-child while in the same paragraph telling me I am being sinful by “judging others”. Doesn’t that strike anyone as a little bit like the pot calling the kettle black?

How anyone can accuse me of being anti-child, when I have repeatedly said I have four young children, is beyond me. Over and over I have repeated that I know what it is like to try and control young children at mass. I had four under the age of three at one point (set of twins in the middle). Imagine dealing with an infant and three toddlers everywhere you go. Life was VERY difficult for me for a long time, at mass, at home, and everywhere else for that matter. There were many times that I didn’t know if I was going to make it, literally. I think I might of even had a nervous breakdown here and there.

None of you know what is in my heart as a mother and few of you can know the sacrifices that a mother makes in having alot of kids in a short period of time. Which, by the way, happened as a direct result of my following church teaching about family and being open to life in this “culture of death”, which I agree we do live in.

I have never said that I think children shouldn’t be welcome in mass, as I myself HAVE FOUR OF THEM. I have never referred to anyone as “bad parents”, nor have I ever referred to any children as “bad kids”. I have, in fact, only commented on the ACTIONS–which I have witnessed with my own eyes and ears–of SOME parents in mass who OBVIOUSLY ignore the bad BEHAVIOR of their children.

I think that everyone who has been so “judgmental” in their accusations that myself and others are “anti-children” and “uncharitable” (which BTW is a personal judgment, and not one based on behavior) should take a breath before they start casting stones.

 

[Tom317]

OK, I know I said I wouldn’t post again, but forgive me, I can’t help myself. It is amazing to me how many posters have refered to me as anti-child while in the same paragraph telling me I am being sinful by “judging others”. Doesn’t that strike anyone as a little bit like the pot calling the kettle black?

How anyone can accuse me of being anti-child, when I have repeatedly said I have four young children, is beyond me. Over and over I have repeated that I know what it is like to try and control young children at mass. I had four under the age of three at one point (set of twins in the middle). Imagine dealing with an infant and three toddlers everywhere you go. Life was VERY difficult for me for a long time, at mass, at home, and everywhere else for that matter. There were many times that I didn’t know if I was going to make it, literally. I think I might of even had a nervous breakdown here and there.

None of you know what is in my heart as a mother and few of you can know the sacrifices that a mother makes in having alot of kids in a short period of time. Which, by the way, happened as a direct result of my following church teaching about family and being open to life in this “culture of death”, which I agree we do live in.

I have never said that I think children shouldn’t be welcome in mass, as I myself HAVE FOUR OF THEM. I have never referred to anyone as “bad parents”, nor have I ever referred to any children as “bad kids”. I have, in fact, only commented on the ACTIONS–which I have witnessed with my own eyes and ears–of SOME parents in mass who OBVIOUSLY ignore the bad BEHAVIOR of their children.

I think that everyone who has been so “judgmental” in their accusations that myself and others are “anti-children” and “uncharitable” (which BTW is a personal judgment, and not one based on behavior) should take a breath before they start casting stones.

I do not personally recall any names being used in reference to being antichild, perhaps you can show us where you personally were called anti-child?

Since you understand it is not easy to parent children, then it should not be difficult to keep that in mind before you condemn parents for the actions of their children for which YOU think is a sign of bad behaivor that should be corrected. You and others here have absolutely NO business deciding who is properly parenting and who is not, mainly because you would never want that done to you or your kids.

Since you correctly state no-one knows your heart, then you must surely admit that you do not know what any other person feels or is going through at any given time and perhaps you will now refrain from thinking ill will towards parents who seem (in your view) to not be watching their kids closely enough. Think back on your worst days and then cut those kids and parents some slack, it is not easy as you well know and you have no way of knowing the depth of trials present in their lives.

Your points actually support my views in that I have said many times that we cannot know the state of any other person and to be harsh in judging their actions is just flat wrong…instead we should act in love and compassion and understanding, just as I am sure you wanted when you went through troubles.

I am happy, trully, that you love kids and that you have four and that you work very hard in raising them, yet I am sure there were plenty of times when people around you might have second guessed your lack of action or seemingly slow response to situations.

 

[Tom317]

OK, I know I said I wouldn’t post again, but forgive me, I can’t help myself. It is amazing to me how many posters have refered to me as anti-child while in the same paragraph telling me I am being sinful by “judging others”. Doesn’t that strike anyone as a little bit like the pot calling the kettle black?

How anyone can accuse me of being anti-child, when I have repeatedly said I have four young children, is beyond me. Over and over I have repeated that I know what it is like to try and control young children at mass. I had four under the age of three at one point (set of twins in the middle). Imagine dealing with an infant and three toddlers everywhere you go. Life was VERY difficult for me for a long time, at mass, at home, and everywhere else for that matter. There were many times that I didn’t know if I was going to make it, literally. I think I might of even had a nervous breakdown here and there.

None of you know what is in my heart as a mother and few of you can know the sacrifices that a mother makes in having alot of kids in a short period of time. Which, by the way, happened as a direct result of my following church teaching about family and being open to life in this “culture of death”, which I agree we do live in.

I have never said that I think children shouldn’t be welcome in mass, as I myself HAVE FOUR OF THEM. I have never referred to anyone as “bad parents”, nor have I ever referred to any children as “bad kids”. I have, in fact, only commented on the ACTIONS–which I have witnessed with my own eyes and ears–of SOME parents in mass who OBVIOUSLY ignore the bad BEHAVIOR of their children.

I think that everyone who has been so “judgmental” in their accusations that myself and others are “anti-children” and “uncharitable” (which BTW is a personal judgment, and not one based on behavior) should take a breath before they start casting stones.

I do not personally recall any names being used in reference to YOU personally being anti-child, perhaps you can show us where you personally were called anti-child?

Since you understand it is not easy to parent children, then it should not be difficult to keep that in mind before you condemn parents for the actions of their children for which YOU think is a sign of bad behaivor that should be corrected. You and others here have absolutely NO business deciding who is properly parenting and who is not, mainly because you would never want that done to you or your kids.

Since you correctly state no-one knows your heart, then you must surely admit that you do not know what any other person feels or is going through at any given time and perhaps you will now refrain from thinking ill will towards parents who seem (in your view) to not be watching their kids closely enough. Think back on your worst days and then cut those kids and parents some slack, it is not easy as you well know and you have no way of knowing the depth of trials present in their lives.

Your points actually support my views in that I have said many times that we cannot know the state of any other person and to be harsh in judging their actions is just flat wrong…instead we should act in love and compassion and understanding, just as I am sure you wanted when you went through troubles.

I am happy, trully, that you love kids and that you have four and that you work very hard in raising them, yet I am sure there were plenty of times when people around you might have second guessed your lack of action or seemingly slow response to situations.

 

[Tom317]

One thing many people here are missing is this:

The very fact that Catholic parents are bringing their kids to Mass is a sign that they care very much about them, and I have yet to meet a loving parent who did not at least try to give their children proper training and teaching. The very fact that their kids are at Mass means the parents are: TRYING TO BE GOOD CATHOLIC PARENTS and that should be reason for celebration, not for condemnation of parents because YOU do not think they are good enough parents.

I just cannot see Jesus turning kids back because they might have mis-behaved…in fact Jesus rebuked the apostles fairly strongly and told them NOT to hinder the children from coming to Him. Yet, in this thread people question whether or not kids should be banned from Mass, should be made to sit in the back, should they be stuffed in a crying room, etc…I would call that a hinderance bigtime.

 

[tadly]

Tom. Your words are deeply hurting those who are trying to discuss this situation.
I understand you have been hurt but we are not “An eye for an eye” anymore.

Please try to use words that do not sting. The words that you are choosing are not reflecting your feelings but rather your passions. (anti-child to a mother is very hurtful) It might be a better idea to pause and reflect the words before you post.

You will get more flies with honey than vinegar. At this point, having people rethink their actions is being blocked by the words you are using. You will not change their hearts by digging your feet in.

God Bless you brother. May God soften your heart in His way, not yours.

 

[Jennifer123]

I just couldn’t bring myself to read all the posts because this topic makes me so angry.

What I love about the Catholic Church is the fact that the family can attend together - I’m not sure of any other way a child is supposed to learn to behave other than to expose them to situations that test their limits.

Now there are exceptions (like always) but for the most part a parent of a kid who is acting up is VERY aware of the trouble they may be causing others. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been brought to tears because of the dirty looks and stares I receive when my kids have acted up in the past. Now, I have pretty good judgement and know when I need to remove my child, but IMHO it’s a bit much to ask of a child to sit there completely silent. I’ve received all sorts of dirty looks for nothing more than my child quietly talking or shuffling. It’s completely heartbreaking!

We are all subjected to trials in life, certainly if this imposition is a lot for you to handle, can’t you use it as a means for grace like we all must do at times?

I’m just trying to do my best, exposing my child to the Church I pray they grow to love and serve, and to worship as a family as best we can. If I can’t ask that others please be mindful of that and try to have some tolerance for us and our little ones, then I’m not sure that the family is really even protected even in the Catholic Church, the last bastion of “life”.

 

[tadly]

Anger is not good for you Jennifer.
You need to pray for peace.

Christ told you that they would hate you. Bear your cross. You can’t make anyone else do that.

 

[Jennifer123]

Anger is not good for you Jennifer.
You need to pray for peace.

Christ told you that they would hate you. Bear your cross. You can’t make anyone else do that.

Hypocrisy fills me with righteous anger - my children need peace and unfortunately they can’t even find it in the Lord’s house. Makes me angry. I’m not perfect.