Baby showers for pregnant teens?

[mosher]

She will be shunned and scorned the rest of her life. Most likely she understands the gravity of the situation!

The first sentence is definitely not correct. Yes, her life may be more difficult but the idea of being shunned and scorned for all time is absurd and hearkens back to the time of the Puritans. My point is that you do not make a public celebration out of something that is objectively evil.

Again this is not about her. You don’t have the shower because of the societal ramifications.

I work very hard to pray for those who have sinned and hurt me, and to welcome them into my arms. Love those who have hurt you. It is not easy, but, IMHO we must continue to love and show affection to those who have sinned. You may see it as “tough love”, but I have a different view, and see it as abandonment and not turning the other cheek. Just different parenting styles, and doesn’t make one or the other right or wrong.

You are correct to a point in that of course you offer love and mercy but for the sake of society you cannot have a formal celebration for vice. Again, this seems to be taking the subjective feelings of the new mother over the good for the society which is never an acceptable choice. Rather we must keep both in mind as we are our brothers keeper.

who among us has not acted in a gravely sinful manner at some point in our lives? We should not scorn, or be scorned forever. Besides, I still see it as a party for the baby, not the mom. She will have many trials to go through as it is.

All are sinners - but do we throw a party every time we have a public sin? Again, as I pointed out baby showers are never about the child but rather about the mother even though the presents are for the use of the child. The mother in this case does not deserve a party but does deserve love and care.

If you would be in favor of changing the name for the party this thread references to “fornicaiton celebration”, then, along that same line of thought we should change the name of baby showers for babies of married couples to “intercourse celebration”.

Again, any reasonable person knows that a baby shower is focused on the mother and it is not in any way a private celebration. Public celebrations should only be done in the face of virtue and not vice.

The baby showers I have been to revolve around the baby, not the mother, nor sex. I don’t go there to celebrate a couple having sex, I go there to celebrate the soon to be born child. We talk about different parenting techniques, sometimes have a name game to guess the name of the child or what the weight/length of the child will be upon birth. We discuss what products are best for strollers, diapers, etc. Advice on how to raise a child is given. Most of the conversation revolves around the baby. If the baby showers you have attended differ so vastly, then perhaps you should offer to be involved in planning these baby showers that you are invited to, so they are more geared towards the baby.

I have actually chosen never to attend showers again out of personal preference. It is not really a place for guys to be. Too much estrogen in the room.

My point is really centered around the public statement that is being made and the ramifications for society if we are going to celebrate an intended evil act. While God chose to act and bring good out of that act in the form of a child it does not give us the right as a society to give public acclimation to any act that is intrinsically evil. Again, while I empathies with the new mother it is improper to throw a party just to make her feel more comfortable or to have affection given to her for a bad decision.

 

[Aleii]

The first sentence is definitely not correct. Yes, her life may be more difficult but the idea of being shunned and scorned for all time is absurd and hearkens back to the time of the Puritans. My point is that you do not make a public celebration out of something that is objectively evil.

My brother in law’s parents just had their 25th wedding anniversary. People did the math and realized that the son was older than 25. Yes, there was scorn. And yes, there will be scorn again when there is a big 50th wedding anniversary party. It is more far reaching than you are realizing.

All are sinners - but do we throw a party every time we have a public sin?

Is the shower being thrown right after they had sex? no. Why does there have to be a 100% connection between a party to a sin that was committted many months ago?

Again, as I pointed out baby showers are never about the child but rather about the mother even though the presents are for the use of the child.

This is the fundamental aspect where we disagree, and most of your response talks about why, if your view is correct, then showers should not be attended. My point is that I don’t believe that ALL showers are given for the mother, and from that belief I come to a different conclusion. I gave examples from my life how showers I attended were in fact centered around the baby to contradict your example, which you didn’t really describe in much detail, where you just basically said that the party you attended was selfishly for the mother. When you use all-inclusive words like
“never” in: “showers are never about the child”, you must back up that claim with proof/evidence, especially when given evidence to the contrary. If you say something is 100% one way, back that statement up.

 

[mosher]

My brother in law’s parents just had their 25th wedding anniversary. People did the math and realized that the son was older than 25. Yes, there was scorn. It is more far reaching than you are realizing.

This is an opportunity to be a witness for the faith and how we ought to do things as opposed to the way they did 25 years ago. it is like the priest who was previously married who received an annulment. He will always have that mistake to deal with but he can use it to better the kingdom of God.

Is the shower being thrown right after they had sex? no

Proximity is irrelevant.

This is the fundamental aspect where we disagree, and most of your response talks about why, if your view is correct, then showers should not be attended. My point is that I don’t believe that ALL showers are given for the mother, and from that belief I come to a different conclusion. I gave examples from my life how showers I attended were in fact centered around the baby. When you use all-inclusive words like “never” you must back up that claim, especially when given proof to the contrary.

This is an issue of public scandal which is not about the thing itself but rather about subjective perception. It is imprudent to do an act that could reasonably have a negative perception that is a scandal against the faith - in this case the dignity of sexuality and the Sacrament of Matrimony.

 

[Tabitha]

it is like the priest who was previously married who received an annulment. He will always have that mistake to deal with but he can use it to better the kingdom of God.

I suppose the priest didn’t deserve to have an Ordination party?

 

[Syele]

Proximity is irrelevant.

The child wouldn’t be there without the first sin… and proximity is irrelevant, so you also are against Birthday parties for the child?

 

[mosher]

I suppose the priest didn’t deserve to have an Ordination party?

This is a very good point. The difference is found in the fact that the ordination was not a sin. So, really this is apples and oranges.

The child wouldn’t be there without the first sin… and proximity is irrelevant, so you also are against Birthday parties for the child?

Correct, the child who is a gift from God is not the sin. However, the way in which that child came into the world was a sinful act. Because of this the child should not be panelized - however the parents should be. So, the party is a scandal. However, a birthday party for the child is not a celebration of the sin of the parent but rather a celebration of the life of the child.

 

[LeahInancsi]

Mosher,

Perhaps, shunning was a bit strong.

Contrary to what I said earlier, you have a good argument and you’re winning me over. As evidenced by the responses of many others, it appears that having children out of wedlock is not as shameful among Catholics as it is among other God believing groups. It could be as a result of the horrific alternative of abortion. Abortion should not make premarital sex anymore acceptable than it was prior to the legalization of abortion.

On a personal point, about a year ago I joined a Catholic singles website as I’m single. One woman was whining the she was pregnant with her fourth child out of wedlock and she was getting all the sympathy she could wish for. This was supposed to be a Catholic group! I made the suggestion that she give this fourth child up for adoption. That was the wrong thing to say. I did a search of the number of “never marrieds” who had children and I was shocked at the results. It was much higher than I would expect to see in a cross-section of Christian society.

In response to Puzzleannie’s scenarios, I don’t think the couple having a big Catholic wedding after to cohabiting for five years should get off with no ramifications from their previous sins, either.

 

[Tabitha]

This is a very good point. The difference is found in the fact that the ordination was not a sin. So, really this is apples and oranges.

Having a baby is not a sin either. The act that caused a child is the sin. Ordination isn’t a sin but the act that allowed this married man to be allowed to become a priest was once considered to be a very mortal sin just decades ago. You weren’t even allowed to take Communion after a divorce and annulments were harder to get. It’s really the same thing.

And a baby shower IS only meant for the baby. I was 17 when I had my first and not once did I feel the party was for me and nobody “showered” me with undue affection and in no way did I feel that anybody approved of our pre-marital relations. It also didn’t cause my friends to go out and get knocked up. None of them did. It’s for the baby period.

 

[Syele]

Correct, the child who is a gift from God is not the sin. However, the way in which that child came into the world was a sinful act. Because of this the child should not be panelized - however the parents should be. So, the party is a scandal. However, a birthday party for the child is not a celebration of the sin of the parent but rather a celebration of the life of the child.

Every Baby Shower I ever attended (Including the one given for my daughter) was decorated in a way that was clearly for a baby. All the gifts given were for a baby. (Baby clothes, baby bed, baby blankets, rattles, baby first aid kits etc.) Invitations generally speak of weather the baby is a boy or a girl or unknown and when the baby is due to arrive. Even the stupid party games tend to revolve around the word “Baby” or around Diaper pins. My Daughter’s baby shower was very much like every Birthday party ever given for her. infact, the only real difference I noticed was that through the 1st b-day party she slept in her cake and some children attended.

How is this focused on the mother and not on the baby? Which part of the traditional Baby shower focuses on the sex that helped create the baby and which part focuses on the mother?

 

[JezuUfamTobie]

It’s really heartbreaking to know that some of my brothers and sisters in Christ are looking at my ring finger and treating my son and I differently when they see that that finger of mine is bare. We are called to be as Christ, who looks lovingly on sinners and says, “Go and sin no more.”

God will take care of punishing an unwed mother for her sins if He deems it necessary. I can’t fathom why anybody would find it necessary to add upon her shame and burden by so much as a momentary disapproving glance or a tiny declined invitation. I am certain that all of the Saints in heaven rejoice at the creation of every little child, even if the circumstances of his conception disappointed them. We do not extend love toward an unwed mother just because she didn’t have an abortion–we do so because she is human. Attending a modest little party for her unborn child is an act of mercy. At the shower for my son, people talked about my unborn baby, not the act that created him.

What if your past mortal sins were as plain as the nose on your face, for all to see? Even if you had repented. Do you think your journey toward heaven would be easier or harder if people treated you in a less charitable way based on those sins? Would it make you more or less kindly disposed to those people? To their religion?

We should take care that our pride does not become someone else’s stumbling block. We all know what Christ says about people who cause others to stumble away from the faith–and it was quite a bit harsher than what he said to the sinful woman at the well.

 

[Exalt]

It’s really heartbreaking to know that some of my brothers and sisters in Christ are looking at my ring finger and treating my son and I differently when they see that that finger of mine is bare. We are called to be as Christ, who looks lovingly on sinners and says, “Go and sin no more.”

God will take care of punishing an unwed mother for her sins if He deems it necessary. I can’t fathom why anybody would find it necessary to add upon her shame and burden by so much as a momentary disapproving glance or a tiny declined invitation. I am certain that all of the Saints in heaven rejoice at the creation of every little child, even if the circumstances of his conception disappointed them. We do not extend love toward an unwed mother just because she didn’t have an abortion–we do so because she is human. Attending a modest little party for her unborn child is an act of mercy. At the shower for my son, people talked about my unborn baby, not the act that created him.

What if your past mortal sins were as plain as the nose on your face, for all to see? Even if you had repented. Do you think your journey toward heaven would be easier or harder if people treated you in a less charitable way based on those sins? Would it make you more or less kindly disposed to those people? To their religion?

We should take care that our pride does not become someone else’s stumbling block. We all know what Christ says about people who cause others to stumble away from the faith–and it was quite a bit harsher than what he said to the sinful woman at the well.

Amen to you.

You just brightened my opinion of the Church a little bit. Thanks for that.

Maybe Catholicism isn’t all that bad… A few lights, here and there…

 

[thechrismyster]

It’s really heartbreaking to know that some of my brothers and sisters in Christ are looking at my ring finger and treating my son and I differently when they see that that finger of mine is bare. .

good post.

keep in mind this is the internet. don’t be suprised if a great many of the intolerant and aggressive ‘Catholics’ on this board are wolves in sheeps clothing.
if i hated Catholicism, what a better way to introduce the spirit of strife than to pose as a Catholic on their own board and spew venom.

I’m seeing it happen more and more as Catholic Answers spreads.

Don’t believe everything you read, a great many posters may not have the ‘Spirit of Christ’

 

[deb1]

Amen to you.

You just brightened my opinion of the Church a little bit. Thanks for that.

Maybe Catholicism isn’t all that bad… A few lights, here and there…

Please don’t judge Catholics by the few people posting on this thread. Many of us who disagree, just don’t want to get involved in an argument that will continue in circles. After all, we aren’t going to change mosher’s mind on this subject.

I found myself in a similar situation as a young woman. I was not Catholic nor was I even a Christian. Because I wanted to continue college, I seriously considered abortion. I even had my pregnancy test done for free at an abortion clinic. My then boyfriend suggested that we get married.

We are now celebrating our 18th wedding anniversary and my son will be 18 in a few months. .

I was immature and selfish enough as a young pregnant mother that if I had thought that my decision to allow my son to live would have resulted in endless shame for myself, I probably would have had an abortion. Why live with such censorship when you can quickly get a procedure done and then move on, pretending that you haven’t done anything wrong?

Of course, thankfully, such reasoning is now alien to my thought process.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Been through this before. I was the child that was shunned as one poster put it.

I did nothing wrong. I was born just like everyone else on this thread. But I was not:

1. asked to other children’s birthday parties
2. allowed to play with some of the other children in the neighborhood
3. invited to sleepovers

I had a couple of good friends that were Catholic and for this I was blessed. Our priest was wonderful and did not discriminate.

But, I had a Catholic adult say that I was condemned to limbo because of my situation. The adults accepted my mother when she married. They treated my half brothers differently from me because there was a father involved (he was an alcoholic) but they were married.

I am pro life. All life is to be celebrated. The child is “never” to be punished for what the parents did and/or did not do.

To this day I do not make many friends. I make many acquaintances. I have never learned to actually trust most people. Funny I am almost 60 years old and people remember that I was born and raised w/o a “real” father.

I’ll keep you all in my prayers. Those that accept the child and those that would not accept the child. As I said all children are blessings from God no matter the circumstances of conception.

 

[Aleii]

The first sentence is definitely not correct.

I showed you how it can be, and often is, in a real life situation, and you reply to say that we should use that to try to bear witness to God. I don’t disagree, but how does that prove that a woman in this situation won’t have to deal with scorn for the rest of their lives? Anniversaries, family tree creation at school or home, weddings/baby showers of other people, etc are all opportunities for additional scorn. I gave you proof why women who are not married who have children will indeed have to deal with shame/scorn from others for the rest of their lives. Please give me evidence to prove that sentence is “definitely not correct”.

My point is that you do not make a public celebration out of something that is objectively evil. Again this is not about her. You don’t have the shower because of the societal ramifications.

and my point is that baby showers are not about sex nor the mother, and that most people do not view it as such, so it is not objectively evil. If you really think that a baby shower for this girl would be about her, and about her having premarital sex, then why wouldn’t you say that from that logic, you are also saying that any shower, including for married people, is about the lady and about her having sex? Sex really doesn’t enter my mind when I go to a baby shower. Why should a baby shower being twisted around so greatly until it is distorted enough to be considered evil in this specific case? You say you are fine with birthday parties, why not consider a baby shower as a 0 year old birthday party, or pre-birthday party as a child is not thrown a party on the day they are born, (its a busy enough day! )

Again, as I pointed out baby showers are never about the child but rather about the mother even though the presents are for the use of the child.

you have yet to prove that believing baby showers are about the mother is a common, well known, overwhelming feeling. I have asked you for proof or evidence of how showers are obviously for the mother and not the baby. You have said that the showers you went to were like that. Please describe in detail how they were not about the baby at all (except for the gifts). Then describe what your vision of a baby shower that’s about the baby is. I have given you details about how the baby showers I’ve gone to have been about the baby. Posters above state that every shower they have been to has been about the baby, not the mother. Are you willing to state that it is perhaps your view that needs modification? That not everyone feels as you think they do? You have yet to give me specific evidence to support your claims and absolute phrases. Back those statements up.

Again, any reasonable person knows that a baby shower is focused on the mother and it is not in any way a private celebration.

That’s a dirty way to debate, because when you say “any reasonable person knows”, you are dismissing any other opinion outright, as well as demeaning anyone who tries to disagree with you as being “unreasonable”. You knew that I disagreed with you when you wrote that quote, and you most likely read the other replies: most of the posters here feel a baby shower is about the baby, not the mother. Who is being unreasonable here? You are also implying that you are not going to even fathom the idea that you might be wrong in this case. What about being humble? Isn’t this a place for people to be open to learning more about life/the faith?

I have actually chosen never to attend showers again out of personal preference.

Why not be involved in the showers so that the baby will be the focus? I’d really like to hear the details of how the party would be executed so it is about the baby and not the mom, since you seem so dead set that everyone does it wrong.

it is improper to throw a party just to make her feel more comfortable or to have affection given to her for a bad decision.

The small affection discussion was that young women in these situations should be given day-to-day affection for the simple fact that they are human. I have not been saying that a shower is a way to show affection to the mother, rather, that the mother isn’t the reason for the shower. Would a mother, married or not, who had a miscarriage be given a shower? Likely not. Why is that? Because the shower is for the baby.

This is an issue of public scandal which is not about the thing itself but rather about subjective perception.

Look at the posts above that state they believe showers are about the baby. I, and others, fail to see how it is a common perception that the baby shower is about or for the mother. If it is for the baby, how can it be defined as scandalous then?

 

[BLB_Oregon]

The answer to that is obvious. It is a public scandal. There are obviously too many “soccer moms” here who are confusing affection with love. A true act of love would be to not give a shower a true act of love would be to not attend a shower because the opposite teaches nothing and will be taken as a tacit approval if not a compete approval. Rather, the new mother needs to have disapproval but love shown to her.

Consider that if we treat a pregnant girl as a pariah, we, too, might cause a scandal. If you do not think the “religious” have not earned a reputation that is far from a loving one when it comes to sexual sins, you have not been listening. The jarring dischord between that and the way in which Our Lord treated those in sexual sin has been noticed in the world outside the Church. We’re supposed to be hated by the the people that hate Jesus. As it is, people read the Gospel, love Jesus, and then look at us and scratch their heads.

Teach? Oh, yes, punishment will teach her. It’ll teach her not to let mom and dad in on it when she screws up. It’ll teach her what all this talk about “unconditional” love adds up to. It will teach the girl (and her little brothers and sisters, because don’t you think for a minute that they’ll never find out about this) to head to Planned Parenthood next time, so she can keep up the pretense that her family is perfect.

Any woman in this day and age who consents to welcome life deserves to have a party. Every child coming into this world should be welcomed with joy and without reservation. Period.

So if your children trust you enough to let you know they have been sexually active and have gotten pregnant, reward that trust with real help towards making amends and taking responsibility for what they do. Support them in the difficult decision of whether to raise the child themselves or to give the child to someone else who desparately wants it. Support them in the difficult journey of turning away from the habit of sex outside of marriage. But in all of that, let them know that we are all sinners before God. Our main job is to keep trying, to avoid both presumption and despair.

Remember, too, that if you teach a child to fear you, you teach them to fear God. That is not the story of the prodigal son. That is not the story of the woman at the well. That is not the story of the woman caught in the act of adultery. If Jesus would not cast a stone, neither should we.

The scandal in our family now has married parents and a little brother. From the perspective of all these years later, the shower seems like a pretty great idea. I’ll tell you what, from the perspective of all these years later, I think the white dress wedding was a great idea, too. I’ve never been to a wedding with anyone other than two sinners at the altar. When we bury sinners, we put the priest in white. I see no reason not to have joy where joy is called for.

 

[setter]

good post.

keep in mind this is the internet. don’t be suprised if a great many of the intolerant and aggressive ‘Catholics’ on this board are wolves in sheeps clothing.
if i hated Catholicism, what a better way to introduce the spirit of strife than to pose as a Catholic on their own board and spew venom.

I’m seeing it happen more and more as Catholic Answers spreads.

Don’t believe everything you read, a great many posters may not have the ‘Spirit of Christ’

To disagree is one thing, to cast judgment on another is an entirely different matter and condemned explicitly by Jesus. We are all sinners in need of God’s forgiveness. Let charity prevail. The sword cuts both ways.

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, `Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.” Matthew 1-5

 

[MilesXpisti]

Consider that if we treat a pregnant girl as a pariah, we, too, might cause a scandal. If you do not think the “religious” have not earned a reputation that is far from a loving one when it comes to sexual sins, you have not been listening. The jarring dischord between that and the way in which Our Lord treated those in sexual sin has been noticed in the world outside the Church. We’re supposed to be hated by the the people that hate Jesus. As it is, people read the Gospel, love Jesus, and then look at us and scratch their heads.

That’s a load of bull. So many scratch their heads because we do not react to sin the in the way the world does. The world would have us pat them on the back, congratulate them for learning on “valuable life lesson” and let them continue on their self-destructive path.

BLB_Oregon:

Teach? Oh, yes, punishment will teach her. It’ll teach her not to let mom and dad in on it when she screws up. It’ll teach her what all this talk about “unconditional” love adds up to. It will teach the girl (and her little brothers and sisters, because don’t you think for a minute that they’ll never find out about this) to head to Planned Parenthood next time, so she can keep up the pretense that her family is perfect.

Unconditional love? Yes, you can love someone and still chastise them for their sin. In fact, Christ commands that we do just that in the Gospel of St. Matthew:

if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother. And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand. And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican. Secundum Matthæum 18,15-17

That is why the question of scandal is so important…the insidiousness of tolerance is such that we so rarely know where it divorces itself from permissiveness. If your daughter finds herself in this situation, celebrate her decision to protect the life within her but within the confines of the family. Do not have a party to show off that she’s made a mistake.

BLB_Oregon:

Any woman in this day and age who consents to welcome life deserves to have a party. Every child coming into this world should be welcomed with joy and without reservation. Period.

Another load of bull. That’s like saying we should have a party for a girl that has premarital sex but has the moral fortitude to not use birth control. Would you be hanging streamers if this was the case with your daughter?

BLB_Oregon:

So if your children trust you enough to let you know they have been sexually active and have gotten pregnant, reward that trust with real help towards making amends and taking responsibility for what they do. Support them in the difficult decision of whether to raise the child themselves or to give the child to someone else who desparately wants it. Support them in the difficult journey of turning away from the habit of sex outside of marriage. But in all of that, let them know that we are all sinners before God. Our main job is to keep trying, to avoid both presumption and despair.

No, our main job is told to the Faith, whether it’s convenient or not. And I could think of not greater presumption before God, and no greater despair to instill in a generation of the Body, than to say because we love you, that what you doesn’t reflect on you, or the Church.

BLB_Oregon:

The scandal in our family now has married parents and a little brother. From the perspective of all these years later, the shower seems like a pretty great idea. I’ll tell you what, from the perspective of all these years later, I think the white dress wedding was a great idea, too. I’ve never been to a wedding with anyone other than two sinners at the altar. When we bury sinners, we put the priest in white. I see no reason not to have joy where joy is called for.

We place the bride in white in acknowledgement and praise of her purity. Not the idea of it, not the symbol of it, but in praise of its actuality. Because she, despite the pressures of the world and of her generation, held the faith and endure as God commanded. And by the same token, the priest wears white not in virtue of himself, but in virtue of his place in persona Christi and it is that same purity that the white praises. Is this purity simply sexual? Not at all. It is the purity derived in knowing the Truth and living it regardless of the consequence.

 

[Catholic_Mike]

I’m not sure how adding as much social stigma as you can would help the situation. Should everyone wear black at the birth too?

Yes, more needs to be done in the way of moral guidance for young people. I’m sure there’s a way to do that and to support people who desperately need it.

If there is some other circumstance involved (a live-in boyfriend or something) that might make attending seem like a vote against the Christian view of marriage, then maybe it makes sense not to go. But even then, I think care must be taken not to make it seem as though you view the child’s existance as something fundamentally bad.

 

[rayne89]

Remember, too, that if you teach a child to fear you, you teach them to fear God. That is not the story of the prodigal son.

Oh yeah, that reminds me did’t the father of the prodigal son throw him a big party? I guess he was guilty of the sin of scandal for even considering it. I mean the guys blows all his dad’s money on wild living and when he comes home his dad throws him a party. Imagine that. I’m mean we really should only parties for those who preserve their virtue.