Baby showers for pregnant teens?

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But they will try – and the bruises inflicted by the club you gave the enemy will hurt as much as any others.
Not really. If we hold to truth then all their propaganda fades into absurdity. Truth always conquers falsehood. They will spout their falsehoods no matter what is done.
I doin’t see any protection. All I see is humiliating and rejecting someone who needs help.
Because you don’t see anything except the mother and child. To place blinders on your eyes does not help the situation. This mother, child and baby shower happens in a larger context of reality and in reality other people exist and these other people are effected and affected by those around them. No act is an island nor is any person an island. Thus equal protection against sin and vice must be given.
A leg is a leg. Shunning is shunning.
And as I said this is in no way shunning. This would would know if you were not discussing this in the fashion of a sophist.
Actually, it changes in my favor. How would any of us like to be judged and shunned this way? Are we not all sinners?
Yes, all with an obligation to judge the actions of others. I am comfortable with my measure of judgment. Remember. without the ability to judge then there are no spiritual works of mercy.
 
Ok, let’s stop discussing this without understanding love.

Love is to desire the highest good for the other. It is exactly because of love that scandal has to be avoided and not against love. For some reason you seem to believe that we must love the mother over others. This is not correct. All people deserve equal treatment and equal love. Further, it may not be an act of love to have a shower for an unwed mother depending on the circumstance but instead not having one would be a greater act of love. I would suggest some time trying to understand what love actually is as opposed to the way the current American culture posits love. A good beginning would be the encyclical Deus Caritas Est.
You may have me mistaken for someone who is ignorant about the topic at hand. I understand what love is (yes, I even own a copy of Deus Caritas Est). And, I also understand what a baby shower is, which you have never attended one and therefore only know based on what information you’ve been given by females (yes there is the occassional male included). So, my understanding of the topic at hand is based on full knowledge of all sides, yours is solely based on theology. Also, I do not know your sins, and am not asking for them, however God loves those of us who are simple minded also (faith like a child ring a bell). Some of the greatest theologians understand that a simple minded person can also teach them something new about God.
 
Also, remember, there is a difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law.
 
Let me get this straight.

We have a contentious argument working up here, representing ourselves as Catholics on the internet, which is open to the whole wide world and their mothers, over what is loving, that is, patient, kind, never rude, etc., etc., and whether or not a certain behavior causes scandal?

Oy, vey.
 
👍
Let me get this straight.

We have a contentious argument working up here, representing ourselves as Catholics on the internet, which is open to the whole wide world and their mothers, over what is loving, that is, patient, kind, never rude, etc., etc., and whether or not a certain behavior causes scandal?

Oy, vey.
It seems that way. Oh, and I love the “Oy, vey”👍 👍 👍 I use that all the time when my darling daughter acts up.
 
Let me get this straight.

We have a contentious argument working up here, representing ourselves as Catholics on the internet, which is open to the whole wide world and their mothers, over what is loving, that is, patient, kind, never rude, etc., etc., and whether or not a certain behavior causes scandal?

Oy, vey.
I totally agree with you if I was a pregnant teen and read this I would run as far away from anything Catholic. Compassion people the word is compassion.
 
Ah. So we just make her think she’s not loved? So we’ll deprive her of support and inflict all the negative psychological consequences on her, but feel smug about it because we know we really love her?
That’s the best comment in this whole thread. :rotfl:
 
Feeling loved and being loved are two different things. Feeling has not grounding in reality but only on the frivolity of the emotions of which love is not one. Let us not confuse love with affection.
Let us not confuse love with cold hearted theologizing. Affection is a means God has given us to express our love. It is one of the important languages of love and failure to use it will leave others feeling unloved. And while they might indeed be pathetic, irrational, emotional fools, those are the same frivolus women who might have abortion. So, for the sake of preserving innocent life, we might have to stoop so low as to show affection.
On the contrary I am quite active in the pro-life movement. I have worked on many fronts of the pro-life movement including counseling those who have been effected by the culture of death on various levels including single mothers.
Well, I hope you were a little bit more compassionate in those settings.
Incorrect, holier than thou is the disposition that one has when they believe that they are more righteous than another. Further, none are speaking about shunning a young lady in this situation. Rather, the concern that is being expressed is about what is the proper way to express love and not only to her and the child but also to the whole of society. Vern, please take the time to read the whole thread and you may get a different feel for this discussion.
I have read and I don’t see how you can wiggle your way out of the problem that someone might be shunned if you boycott her baby shower.

Kendy
 
Not at all. It is about protecting others from scandal while at the same time caring for the mother and child.
I still don’t know who we are trying to protect other than I suppose some busybody who can’t tell the difference between loving support and approval. I would much rather spend the time explaining to this confused person the difference than missing the baby shower.
 
Ok, let’s stop discussing this without understanding love.

Love is to desire the highest good for the other. It is exactly because of love that scandal has to be avoided and not against love. For some reason you seem to believe that we must love the mother over others. This is not correct. All people deserve equal treatment and equal love. Further, it may not be an act of love to have a shower for an unwed mother depending on the circumstance but instead not having one would be a greater act of love. I would suggest some time trying to understand what love actually is as opposed to the way the current American culture posits love. A good beginning would be the encyclical Deus Caritas Est.
I have read Deus Caritas Est twice, attended several discussion groups and presentations on it, and nothing about the encyclical leads me to believe that it is more loving to boycott a shower for the sake of “loving” unspecified persons.

In fact, it only leads me to believe that it is important to show kindness and mercy to others when they fall.

You have not shown how it is a greater act of love to shun the unwed mother. And more importantly, you have not dealt with the real tough question that such behavior might lead other scared women to seek abortions.

I used to be an English teacher so I can’t believe I am saying this, but may I suggest, a little less reading and a little more living.
Kendy
 
I have read Deus Caritas Est, attended several discussion groups and presentations on it, and nothing about the encyclical leads me to believe that it is more loving to boycott a shower for the sake of “loving” unspecified persons.

In fact, it only leads me to believe that it is important to show kindness and mercy to others when they fall.

You have not shown how it is a greater act of love to shun the unwed mother. And more importantly, you have not dealt with the real tough question that such behavior might lead other scared women to seek abortions.

Kendy
Kendy, he does not believe that such behaviour is shunning. He believes that if one does not attend a baby shower for the sole purpose of avoiding or not causing scandal, then that is loving behavior. To him, facts are everything, perception is nothing.
 
Kendy, he does not believe that such behaviour is shunning. He believes that if one does not attend a baby shower for the sole purpose of avoiding or not causing scandal, then that is loving behavior. To him, facts are everything, perception is nothing.
Yes, I am reminded of Charles Dicken’s “Hard Times”— Facts, Facts, I want nothing but facts. If anyone has read that book, you might relaize that human beings don’t work that way.
 
It is not our passions that are like God but rather our Rational Soul as is said by St. Thomas and other Theologians. The oughtness of things must be determined completely apart from subjective experience but rather in the confines of objective principles. Ethical judgment cannot be done from the subjective but only from the objective.
I have a need to respond to this idea, although it is at this point only very obliquely related to the main subject of the thread. The great Christian writer Tertullian stated that our emotions are indeed created in the image of the divine. He says that humans have, “the same emotions and sensations as God, although they are not of the same kind; differing as they do both in their conditions and their issues according to their nature… for we indeed do not possess them in perfection, because it is God alone who is perfect.”

Theologians and even saints often have differing opinions, but I think that our Catechism backs up the above idea in paragraph 1769 which states, “In Christ human feelings are able to reach their consummation in charity and divine beatitude.”

I am, however, in complete agreement with you insofar that as an emotional reaction alone is not just cause for adopting a certain moral stance.

Now, moving on to the subject at hand…

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the only disagreement we have left is whether or not we as Christians contribute to scandal by either hosting or attending a baby shower for an unwed mother. Or in other words, are Christians likely to lead others into sin by attending such an event?

I think we are all in agreement on the following:
  1. We should not commit a scandalous act (leading others into sin by making a particular sin seem ok to do).
  2. It is charitable to give (time, things, compassion) to the needy, regardless of the state of their souls.
Despite what I view to be several miscommunications on this thread, I think we’re all pretty much in agreement regarding theology and the Catholic understanding of love. We have some disagreement regarding how one can best show love, but that’s not at the heart of this thread.

So how are we to determine whether or not we lead others into sin by attending the shower of an unwed mother? The most anybody has offered so far is mere speculation on what the motives of teen girls are when they fornicate, and more importantly when they purposefully conceive a child out of wedlock.

I was reading an interesting report from Great Britain regarding unwed mothers who purposefully conceived. Among other things, this report listed the reasons these young women gave for their choice to become unwed, teen mothers. All of the women listed one or more of the following:
  1. Wants to escape her home life
  2. Wants a loving family of her own
  3. Wants to have a purpose for her life
  4. Desires to prove she is capable of doing something independently (raising a child)
  5. Loves taking care of babies
  6. Wants to get childbearing over with when she’s still young
    ~(Cater and Coleman. “‘Planned’ teenage pregnancy: Perspectives of young parents from disadvantaged backgrounds”)
None of the young women named “the desire to have a baby shower” as a reason for conceiving.

If I understand you correctly, you are fine with giving gifts to the unwed mother, being kind and charitable toward the unwed mother, and going to a party that celebrates the child in some way (i.e. a birth date or Baptism party). So given all that, it seems rather illogical to conclude that–although gifts, compassion, and parties are neither sinful nor scandalous–to combine them in the form of a baby shower would be scandalous.
 
I totally agree with you if I was a pregnant teen and read this I would run as far away from anything Catholic. Compassion people the word is compassion.
And that’s the bottom line – treat the pregnant teenager different from any other expectant mother, and we will lose her. And we may lose her to the abortion clinic.
 
As I said earlier I did not throw a shower for my daughter when she got pregnant. She was not a teen mother but unwed at the time. I bought things for her and although I tried everything was not new but we did manage.

This daughter reminded me that I took her to a shower for a cousin who was an unwed mom when my daughter was twelve. Relatives do bring their children to showers.

The baptismal shower seems more like it is for the baby because we can then see the baby and it is the baby’s day of coming into the church. I have been to baptismal gathering within a short time of the birth and I usually give money, but I do understand that mothers may feel a need for things before. Is it that important that they have these things before the birth or could it be delayed? Would it make a difference if it was done after?

I understand that we cannot treat anyone differently. That would be unacceptable. That is the issue. Most families would want the shower before the birth. How about the young teen mom who has given her child up so that the child can have a chance at life?
 
I wonder if we’d have the same arguement if the child was conceived by a married couple through IVF?
 
Thank you to all those who have participated in this discussion. This thread is now closed.
 
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