Babylonian God????

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I have a protestant friend who recently tried to convince me that Catholics are worshiping a Babylonian God and don’t even know it and that Mary is really some Babylonian Goddess or some weirdness… Basically he’s convinced that we are all poor lost souls being tricked by the Vatican.

So we got talking and of course I told him to show me the evidence of this. He pulled up a series of ‘claims’ on various web pages and it’s all made to look very valid and intelligent and historical and what not. Of course I knew that this was just a bunch of anticatholic propaganda, but how can I prove to him that his ‘evidence’ is a bunch of phooey?? He and, to my shock, tons of others are taught and believe this nonsense!! Seriously, he was talking about insane stuff that I thought I’d only ever come in contact w/ in some stupid Jack Chick comic…
 
Little_Katie said:
I have a protestant friend who recently tried to convince me that Catholics are worshiping a Babylonian God and don’t even know it and that Mary is really some Babylonian Goddess or some weirdness… Basically he’s convinced that we are all poor lost souls being tricked by the Vatican.

So we got talking and of course I told him to show me the evidence of this. He pulled up a series of ‘claims’ on various web pages and it’s all made to look very valid and intelligent and historical and what not. Of course I knew that this was just a bunch of anticatholic propaganda, but how can I prove to him that his ‘evidence’ is a bunch of phooey?? He and, to my shock, tons of others are taught and believe this nonsense!! Seriously, he was talking about insane stuff that I thought I’d only ever come in contact w/ in some stupid Jack Chick comic…
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Specifics?

For one thing, was Elizabeth Babylonian? She calls the Theotokos “Mother of My Lord” Luke 1: 42-3.

But she was filled by the Holy Spirit to say this, and “Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb.” (I’ve heard that before, can’t put my finger on it). Luke 1:40 So I guess the Holy Spirit is Babylonian too.

Ooooooh! Matthew 12:31.:eek:

If I was your friend, I’d spend time away from those websites with different Gospels.
 
Little Katie, do you believe we, including yourself, are being tricked by the Vatican?
 
Of course not!!!

I just wish I could convince my friend of this…
 
This is going to sound horribly unintelligent, but…

I just know we aren’t. I have no reason for knowing I’m not brainwashed other than that… well… I know I’m not.

I know this is Christ’s one true Church that he created. I know this… but aside from the bible and apostolic succession I really have no way to prove this… It’s obvious to me, but the rest of the world always seems to want more definitive evidence…
 
Little_Katie said:
This is going to sound horribly unintelligent, but…

I just know we aren’t. I have no reason for knowing I’m not brainwashed other than that… well… I know I’m not.

I know this is Christ’s one true Church that he created. I know this… but aside from the bible and apostolic succession I really have no way to prove this… It’s obvious to me, but the rest of the world always seems to want more definitive evidence…
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Alright, you KNOW, but, you don’t know HOW you know…logically you had to have come to a conclusion. Apostolic Succession is a good start, you can show proof about it and research it. What is written in the Bible is good, too.

I don’t suppose you can show us the exact claims? …And, for that matter, is anybody here familiar with Babylonian mythology?
 
Here is one link he used.

Here is another.

And this was the other link he used.

When you look at these you will see that it reeks of the same feel that tabloids have… The facts are made to sound intelligent but there is no reference to where the facts are coming from.
 
Little_Katie said:
Here is one link he used.

Here is another.

And this was the other link he used.

When you look at these you will see that it reeks of the same feel that tabloids have… The facts are made to sound intelligent but there is no reference to where the facts are coming from.
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Go to an anti-Catholic site run by a guy named Ralph Woodrow. He wrote a book, Babylon Mystery Religion, based on Alexander Hislop’s 19th Century absurdity The Two Babylons – and he made a pot of money off of it. Both of these books spouted this nonsense. Woodrow, however, came to realize his error, and withdrew the book. He’s still no lover of the Church but give him credit for being honest enough to do the right thing when he figured it out.
 
OOOOH! The first site takes a swipe at the Orthodox Church! That’s new!

The Vatican Site has the reason why the Oblesk is there and was moved.

I don’t think that the Dali Lama is friends with PJPII when he was alive. I think they were more like aquaintaintances. I’m pretty sure the African women dancing for PJP were not trying to induce a trance.

I can see what you mean. There are pictures. There are statements. There are accusations. The statements may not represent the pictures in their entirity and the accusations are either ignorant lies or deliberate half-truthes.

The third site has the Rosary wrong. Even the definition of the Rosary.

OOOH! The Baptism of Bells!!! That’s an old one!!! It’s nice to see that they are sticking with the classics!

I like 3.1: They acknowledge that the upsidedown cross is associated with St. Peter, but, in todays society it’s seen as anti-Christian. They are accusing Catholics of being evil, even though they acknowledge history and try to fit the modern piece of the puzzle into something that has nothing on the Church’s doing.

3.2: They have a problem with the sign of the cross? Are they JW’s? Note the picture is of an ankh. The ankh was adopted as a Christian symbol later (I think it still has ties in the Coptic Church – I THINK), but, the ankh is NOT the cross. If your friend has a problem with the sign of the cross, let us know. I was weirded out by it at first, too.

3.3: HEY…wait a minute…I’ve seen this list before. It’s not new. They give us credit for candles. We cannot take it.

OH! I see the dates on the side. They are wrong and can be historically proven wrong.

There’s a bit on the side (scrolling down) saying the Trinity Doctrine is pagan. …Is this what your friend believes?
 
I don’t know if my friend is weirded out by the sign of the cross specifically, but I would definitely say that he finds catholic practices in general as ‘cultish’.

No, actually, he doesn’t believe the trinity is pagan. I think his denomination is called ‘4 square’ or something weird like that… they believe in the trinity.

I have actually never heard of the baptism of bells… you call it a classic? lol, was it stirring up scandal long before?
 
Little_Katie said:
I don’t know if my friend is weirded out by the sign of the cross specifically, but I would definitely say that he finds catholic practices in general as ‘cultish’.

No, actually, he doesn’t believe the trinity is pagan. I think his denomination is called ‘4 square’ or something weird like that… they believe in the trinity.

I have actually never heard of the baptism of bells… you call it a classic? lol, was it stirring up scandal long before?
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Alright, if he doesn’t find the sign of the cross offensive, and if he doesn’t believe the Trinity is pagan, let him know this is what this site supports. Clearly if they do not agree with the Trinity, the site is not Christian.

If he would like to know more about the sign of the cross, there is a thread here going over it, but, there’s also more to it.

Baptism of the Bells: newadvent.org/cathen/02418b.htm
^^ Go about halfway down to, “Benediction.”
 
fisheaters.com/bells.html

Also, this link.

If you have the oportunity, ask your friend if he or she is upset by pagan things in general, paganism in the Catholic Church, or the Catholic Church.

If it’s the first: then he is uncomfortable with names of days and months (in English, anyway), and that’s fine. Please keep in mind, without the pagans, we would not have plumbing.

If it’s the second: this can be refuted.

If it’s the third: your friend needs prayers.
 
Want a good one? Point out that Vatican City isn’t in Rome of ancient times, and if it was, it sits on the 8th hill!! So, was the Bible wrong about it sitting on seven hills?

There is a word for this stuff. The moderators will not let me use it. It is generally found behind the south end of a north bound bull. Any one who has ever read any history should see the trouble. If our God is false, theirs is too.
 
Little_Katie said:
I have a protestant friend who recently tried to convince me that Catholics are worshiping a Babylonian God and don’t even know it and that Mary is really some Babylonian Goddess or some weirdness… Basically he’s convinced that we are all poor lost souls being tricked by the Vatican.

So we got talking and of course I told him to show me the evidence of this. He pulled up a series of ‘claims’ on various web pages and it’s all made to look very valid and intelligent and historical and what not. Of course I knew that this was just a bunch of anticatholic propaganda, but how can I prove to him that his ‘evidence’ is a bunch of phooey?? He and, to my shock, tons of others are taught and believe this nonsense!! Seriously, he was talking about insane stuff that I thought I’d only ever come in contact w/ in some stupid Jack Chick comic…
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Jack chick is considered an embarrassment to most Protestants. You should read his tract on the board game Dungeons and Dragons. I laughed so hard I cried.
 
…Don’t take what anyone,including your friend ,or myself says for 100% truth. The information can be obtained if you are interested in actual truth. IMAGINE, READING THEM FOR YOURSELF.The tablets have been translated already.GO straight to the source,not an atheism site,or a Christian site.

“Such was the word of the great lord Marduk and of Sin, the luminary of heaven and the netherworld, whose command is not revoked”

Do you know where the word Israel was first documented???2. Israel.—Shortly before the war a Babylonian seal cylinder was purchased of a peasant in a village near Mosul and taken to Paris. It bears the name, Israel, son of Rishzuni.
The form of the written characters, as well as the pictures carved on the seal, mark it as the work of the time of the dynasty of Agade, which ruled Babylonia from about 2800 to 2600 B.C…Little Katie, I am interested in all theology and mythology. I just finished reading the"Sophia of Jesus Christ",one of the most popular and early Christian writings. I don’t deem books taboo because early church fathers like Eucibius said so.(They could hardly agree on much, they bickered and squabbled,and argued over what is “divine”}…These sites your friend sent you to are ridiculous,and biased. They are full of some truth some false claims…However,I have seen plenty of Christian sites guilty of this too. If these claims your friend made are true, WOULD you want to know?? Well, I wanted to know, and I read the ancient tablets, and texts of the early Babylonians, Sumerians,Assyrians,and Egyptians…

IF YOU WANT THE TRUTH,GO STRAIGHT TO THE SOURCE!! THE 7 BABYLONIAN TABLETS FOR STARTERS,go to theology sites,Assyrian myth, Sumerian Myth. These are real works of literature,the Bible constantly takes them and dumbs them down

“Marduk first created a structure from bone, left over from the bones of the dead monsters from the war. Then he formed the flesh around it and breathed life into it.”<<one of many,many versions

Here are just a few of the similarities…
  1. Garden of Eden
    2.Adapa and the expulsion from the garden.
    3.Fruit of knowledge,talking snakes
    4.You will find the creation of man by…DUST,CLAY,BLOOD,in one version man was spoken into existence,in one version the RIB of man was used to create woman.
  2. a 2 Brothers story
  3. an ARK story,with the gods ordering the collection of animals before a global flood
    7./…MOSES??? the tale of the KING SARGON, ditched in a reed basket in a river ,rescued by royalty,and raised by them.
    8 you will find sons of God, Heaven ,Hell
 
East_and_West said:
Jack chick is considered an embarrassment to most Protestants. You should read his tract on the board game Dungeons and Dragons. I laughed so hard I cried.
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I have seen this. I also laughed so hard I cried. I am actually an avid DnD/table top role player myself!! I have never felt the urge to kill myself upon loosing a character. And last time I checked my DM is not trying to lure me into a Satanic Cult (though I think he’s been hinting at me baking cupcakes for the next game again…). LOL
 
krew555555 said:
…Don’t take what anyone,including your friend ,or myself says for 100% truth. The information can be obtained if you are interested in actual truth. IMAGINE, READING THEM FOR YOURSELF.The tablets have been translated already.GO straight to the source,not an atheism site,or a Christian site.

“Such was the word of the great lord Marduk and of Sin, the luminary of heaven and the netherworld, whose command is not revoked”

Do you know where the word Israel was first documented???2. Israel.—Shortly before the war a Babylonian seal cylinder was purchased of a peasant in a village near Mosul and taken to Paris. It bears the name, Israel, son of Rishzuni.
The form of the written characters, as well as the pictures carved on the seal, mark it as the work of the time of the dynasty of Agade, which ruled Babylonia from about 2800 to 2600 B.C…Little Katie, I am interested in all theology and mythology. I just finished reading the"Sophia of Jesus Christ",one of the most popular and early Christian writings. I don’t deem books taboo because early church fathers like Eucibius said so.(They could hardly agree on much, they bickered and squabbled,and argued over what is “divine”}…These sites your friend sent you to are ridiculous,and biased. They are full of some truth some false claims…However,I have seen plenty of Christian sites guilty of this too. If these claims your friend made are true, WOULD you want to know?? Well, I wanted to know, and I read the ancient tablets, and texts of the early Babylonians, Sumerians,Assyrians,and Egyptians…

IF YOU WANT THE TRUTH,GO STRAIGHT TO THE SOURCE!! THE 7 BABYLONIAN TABLETS FOR STARTERS,go to theology sites,Assyrian myth, Sumerian Myth. These are real works of literature,the Bible constantly takes them and dumbs them down

“Marduk first created a structure from bone, left over from the bones of the dead monsters from the war. Then he formed the flesh around it and breathed life into it.”<<one of many,many versions

Here are just a few of the similarities…
  1. Garden of Eden
    2.Adapa and the expulsion from the garden.
    3.Fruit of knowledge,talking snakes
    4.You will find the creation of man by…DUST,CLAY,BLOOD,in one version man was spoken into existence,in one version the RIB of man was used to create woman.
  2. a 2 Brothers story
  3. an ARK story,with the gods ordering the collection of animals before a global flood
    7./…MOSES??? the tale of the KING SARGON, ditched in a reed basket in a river ,rescued by royalty,and raised by them.
    8 you will find sons of God, Heaven ,Hell
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You can find uncanny similarities to Christianisty in most mythologies. I mean, Hercules was the son of Zeus come to Earth and he ‘saved’ people. Hades wanted to kill him. etc etc etc.

All I’m saying is that similarities don’t mean that two things are speaking about the same thing…
 
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