Bach and the Catholic Church

[nhylan]

Is Bach often played in Catholic Masses? I didn’t know this till recently but a great deal of Bach’s personal orthodox Lutheran theology is distilled in his music. The man basically invented the modern hymnody, almost all, if not all of his music is dedicated to the glory of God, he’s considered one of most important composers of all time. In fact other composers who could also be in the running for most important composer of all time would probably tell you Bach was. Would his, sometimes forceful brand of Lutheranism, which is so prevalent in much of his music prevent your church or a Catholic Church from using his music? I’m jsut curious if the RCC has looked into this at all. I find Bach fascinating and as Will Durant said “'Bach’s works are the Reformation put to music.”

Thoughts?

 

[JohnDamian]

Bach, and other equally important protestant musicians such as Purcell and Boyce are (speaking from experience) regularily played in Churches; although that may be a cultural thing as I live in a predominantly Protestant country.

It would be disappointing to myself if important musicians such as Purcell; Bach; Stanley; Boyce and so forth were discounted for their sacred music merely because of being Protestant; but some official teaching on this would be great!

 

[Petergee]

Bach may have had a “forceful brand of Lutheranism” but as far as I know, unlike a lot of other Protestants of his time, he never indulged in anti-Catholicism in his speech or writings, and certainly not in his music. I know of nothing in his compositions which a Catholic could object to on theological grounds.

Probably tehre is less Bach played in Catholic liturgies than there should be because of cultural-historical reasons which have preferred other composers (and in modern times many Catholic parishes have virtually abandoned all good music.)

 

[nhylan]

Bach may have had a “forceful brand of Lutheranism” but as far as I know, unlike a lot of other Protestants of his time, he never indulged in anti-Catholicism in his speech or writings, and certainly not in his music. I know of nothing in his compositions which a Catholic could object to on theological grounds.

Probably tehre is less Bach played in Catholic liturgies than there should be because of cultural-historical reasons which have preferred other composers (and in modern times many Catholic parishes have virtually abandoned all good music.)

I’m not Catholic but I do sing quite often as a cantor at Masses and Catholic funerals and I have to say the music is quite bad most of the time. I would agree that I would love to do more Bach when I’m at Mass. This also leads to the problem though that there are many many organists at Catholic Churches that probably can’t play Bach because the music has been of such a “quality” the past several decades. In the greater Boston area, amongst organists I think its a general rule of thumb that the majority of good organists play in Episcopal Churches. Money has something to do with that definitely but I also think that Catholic music has a certain bad stigma amongst professionals. Would love to see these trends reversed. There is lots of good music by Catholic composers and obviously there is lots by protestant composers, particularly the German school.

 

[tomarin]

Is Bach often played in Catholic Masses?

It depends. It might be inappropriate to play Bach during the Mass itself, but our organist has played Beethoven’s “Ode to Joy” during the recessional and he would probably play a piece by Bach, I would imagine.

He wrote so many “masses” that I never thought of him as a “Protestant” protestant if you know what I mean – although he was of course a very devout Lutheran and I’m sure he subscribed to all the things Lutherans subscribe to.

He’s my favorite composer by the way and his music is so awesome (in the old-fashioned sense of the word) that I have no doubt it was inspired by God, Protestant or not.

 

[nhylan]

It depends. It might be inappropriate to play Bach during the Mass itself, but our organist has played Beethoven’s “Ode to Joy” during the recessional and he would probably play a piece by Bach, I would imagine.

He wrote so many “masses” that I never thought of him as a “Protestant” protestant if you know what I mean – although he was of course a very devout Lutheran and I’m sure he subscribed to all the things Lutherans subscribe to.

He’s my favorite composer by the way and his music is so awesome (in the old-fashioned sense of the word) that I have no doubt it was inspired by God, Protestant or not.

I would agree, his music is indeed divinely inspired. one would think that the music being so technical and demanding would force the listeners ear away from prayer and to showing off the organists skills but that never seems to be the case with faithful interpretations of Bach. I find myself deeper in God by listening to Bach.

 

[T_More]

Whether Bach converted or not, his music is incredible and sounds inspired. He’s one of my very favorite composers and I listen to his music alot.

 

[nhylan]

Whether Bach converted or not, his music is incredible and sounds inspired. He’s one of my very favorite composers and I listen to his music alot.

Bach never converted. This seems to be a common misconception because his son, also quite a famous composer, did convert to Roman Catholicism after his father’s death in 1760 I think.

 

[T_More]

Bach never converted. This seems to be a common misconception because his son, also quite a famous composer, did convert to Roman Catholicism after his father’s death in 1760 I think.

I know about his son JC Bach and his conversion. And I also am a fan of his music as well. It doesn’t matter to me whether JS Bach converted or not. He was a genius and his music is incredible.

 

[elgar]

Is Bach often played in Catholic Masses? I didn’t know this till recently but a great deal of Bach’s personal orthodox Lutheran theology is distilled in his music. The man basically invented the modern hymnody, almost all, if not all of his music is dedicated to the glory of God, he’s considered one of most important composers of all time. In fact other composers who could also be in the running for most important composer of all time would probably tell you Bach was. Would his, sometimes forceful brand of Lutheranism, which is so prevalent in much of his music prevent your church or a Catholic Church from using his music? I’m jsut curious if the RCC has looked into this at all. I find Bach fascinating and as Will Durant said “'Bach’s works are the Reformation put to music.”

Thoughts?

The last time I heard Bach played in a Catholic church was by me as I was filling in as guest organist. If you have been hearing it played, consider yourself fortunate. Not only is Bach not played but anything classical in nature or hymns coming from the Catholic tradition are absent around here.

I remember up until sometime in the 20th century, the works of J.S. Bach and most likely other protestants were banned by the Catholic church. I can’t remember which pope changed all that. From an organist’s point of view, good ole Bach is the GREATEST by a long shot and I consider myself to be quite open to all styles and periods.

 

[Oldtimer_7]

I don’t think anyone can call any combination of notes on the diatonic scale Catholic or Lutheran or anything else. One of my great life experiences was to be a page turner for a Presbyterian organist at Christchurch in Oxford, England, as she played Bach. The amount of skill in playing such a piece is considerable to do it justice, and not just any instrument will do. I would leave it to Elgar and others who know how to play to expand on that idea. The last time I attended Mass at the local Catholic church, I glanced through the hymnal and there were hymns by Luther and Wesley. I have heard Ave Maria played in a number of Protestant churches. The beauty of Gounod’s work transcends any denominational concerns. The music lifts to the soul an awareness of the glory of God and His creation. That being said, if I went to a Mass and heard “Victory in Jesus” I would probably run out the door and check the sign board to make sure I had come to the right place.

 

[nhylan]

I don’t think anyone can call any combination of notes on the diatonic scale Catholic or Lutheran or anything else.

Believe it or not there are many that believe that Bach inserted Lutheran ideas into the very notes of his music. Not that these ideas are purely Lutheran but for instance Bach purposely wrote notes to form crosses in the notes themselves. There lots of examples like that. On Bach’s deathbed he signed his last piece by composing a line… B, A, C, B flat (which in the German notation is H) There is countless little symbols in his works, truly a multi-level genius.

 

[elgar]

Believe it or not there are many that believe that Bach inserted Lutheran ideas into the very notes of his music. Not that these ideas are purely Lutheran but for instance Bach purposely wrote notes to form crosses in the notes themselves. There lots of examples like that. On Bach’s deathbed he signed his last piece by composing a line… B, A, C, B flat (which in the German notation is H) There is countless little symbols in his works, truly a multi-level genius.

The symbolism employed by Bach is not Lutheran, but Christian. For example, the use of triple meter, 3 flats, 3 fugues are all symbolic of the Holy Trinity. Bach’s organ masterpiece (my all-time-favorite, had it at our wedding as the processional) Prelude and Fugue in E Flat (St. Anne) is a stunning example of his genius and religious conviction.

 

[Z_Ninja]

I remember we sung “Jesu, Joy of Man’s Desiring” quite often in Mass growing up and another Bach piece, but can’t remember the name now.

 

[nhylan]

The symbolism employed by Bach is not Lutheran, but Christian. For example, the use of triple meter, 3 flats, 3 fugues are all symbolic of the Holy Trinity. Bach’s organ masterpiece (my all-time-favorite, had it at our wedding as the processional) Prelude and Fugue in E Flat (St. Anne) is a stunning example of his genius and religious conviction.

Thanks for the info, I think we are having Prelude and fugue in G major BWV 541 as the prelude in our wedding.

 

[1holycatholic]

I had Bach’s BWV 208 (Sheep may safely graze.) played at my wife’s funeral a few months ago.
youtube.com/watch?v=TYjqnlc7MRw

I had heard it as background music for a program on EWTN and I liked it. There is nothing problematic with the lyrics as is the case in songs like “Amazing Grace.”

Here it is being performed at a Catholic Church:

youtube.com/watch?v=ShL1DSkethk

Saint Peter’s Catholic Church
Established 1821
Diocese of Charleston
City of Columbia, South Carolina

Jacqueline Stucker, Soprano
Amy Rivers, Flute
Mark Husey, organ
2002 III/38 Peragallo pipe organ
Specification available visitstpeters.org/music.htm#pe…

Aria from “Was mir behagt” BWV 208
Schafe können sicher weiden wo ein guter Hirte wacht. Wo Regenten wohl regieren kann man Ruh und Friede spüren und was Länder glücklich macht.

Sheep may safely graze where a good shepherd keeps watch. Where leaders govern well, can one feel rest and peace, and everyone in the land is happy.

 

[nhylan]

My sincerest sympathies for your loss. Bach is beautiful for funerals and that is a particularly gorgeous piece.

I had Bach’s BWV 208 (Sheep may safely graze.) played at my wife’s funeral a few months ago.
youtube.com/watch?v=TYjqnlc7MRw

I had heard it as background music for a program on EWTN and I liked it. There is nothing problematic with the lyrics as is the case in songs like “Amazing Grace.”

Here it is being performed at a Catholic Church:

youtube.com/watch?v=ShL1DSkethk

Saint Peter’s Catholic Church
Established 1821
Diocese of Charleston
City of Columbia, South Carolina

Jacqueline Stucker, Soprano
Amy Rivers, Flute
Mark Husey, organ
2002 III/38 Peragallo pipe organ
Specification available visitstpeters.org/music.htm#pe…

Aria from “Was mir behagt” BWV 208
Schafe können sicher weiden wo ein guter Hirte wacht. Wo Regenten wohl regieren kann man Ruh und Friede spüren und was Länder glücklich macht.

Sheep may safely graze where a good shepherd keeps watch. Where leaders govern well, can one feel rest and peace, and everyone in the land is happy.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Bach was truly divinely inspired and his music transcends all religious divisions including Catholic and Lutheran. I am transported by all of his music, but in particular Mass in B Minort. St. Matthew’s Passion and St. John’s Passion.

Bach said, “Music’s only purpose should be the glory of God and the recreation of the human spirit.” Music was given to glorify God in heaven and to edify men and women on earth. Bach was a great Christian, besides being a great composer and musician,and a great example for all Christians.

 

[nhylan]

B Minor mass is the kind of piece that you would send to aliens if they they wanted to learn about human culture, its magnitude is just unbelievable. I was lucky enough to sing the Bass solos a couple years ago with orchestra and chorus. So challenging!

Bach was truly divinely inspired and his music transcends all religious divisions including Catholic and Lutheran. I am transported by all of his music, but in particular Mass in B Minort. St. Matthew’s Passion and St. John’s Passion.

Bach said, “Music’s only purpose should be the glory of God and the recreation of the human spirit.” Music was given to glorify God in heaven and to edify men and women on earth. Bach was a great Christian, besides being a great composer and musician,and a great example for all Christians.

 

[elgar]

Thanks for the info, I think we are having Prelude and fugue in G major BWV 541 as the prelude in our wedding.

You’re quite welcome. Actually P & F in G was strongly considered for our wedding postlude but the French School (Mulet–Carillon Sortie) won out. Face it, you can’t go wrong with either of the Bach. They just exude joy. Hard to explain to some people and not trying to be a snob.