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I firmly believe you don’t know what you’re talking about. I think you said it when you said it’s ok to be a prude…It is not!
Catholics are not prudes…we should be discerning and modest but there is a difference between that and prudishness and puritanism.
What you advocate is that the human body is bad. Even artistic representations of it. This is categorically NOT what the Church teaches.
Catholics are not prudes…we should be discerning and modest but there is a difference between that and prudishness and puritanism.
What you advocate is that the human body is bad. Even artistic representations of it. This is categorically NOT what the Church teaches.
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edwest2
Guest
I try not to assume things about what people write and not to conclude things - usually negative - from an assumption.
Prude from Merriman-Webster:
“a person who is excessively or priggishly attentive to propriety or decorum; especially : a woman who shows or affects extreme modesty”
I never sad the human body was bad. The topic is nude modeling not 'is the nude human body bad." Did I say anything negative about the professional quality nude you posted?
A few words from Pope John Paul II:
ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/jp2tb60.htm
I can claim the following as a fact - too many people are hyper-insensitive to the human body as art, especially the nude, and by that I mean the body is no longer what Pope John Paul II talks about -it becomes a violation of his words today waaay more often than not. A lot more often.
Peace,
Ed
Prude - British Dictionary
a person who is or claims to be easily shocked by matters relating to sex or nudity.
Prudishness is generally assumed to be associated with puritanism and does have negative connotations. I have never heard any orthodox catholic describe themselves as a prude.
I would take care to protect the decency of the human body but the study of the nude figure is definitely a requirement if one is to master the necessary skills to be a decent figurative artist. As is the study of human anatomy, the muscles, the skeleton etc. All figurative artists study this.
You mentioned you were instructing an artist - how will this artists training be complete if he does not learn the basics? What generations of artists before him have deemed to be essential?
And if the church is against this practice of using nude models…where is the teaching on it…and why has it commissioned so many works that require the use of nudes?
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Debora123
Guest
Sigh
Good grief, I never said there was anything wrong with seeing a doctor of the same gender… I myself would prefer it. What I was saying is that no one here says that it’s wrong or foolish or lust inducing to be nude in front of a doctor of the opposite gender, as it supposedly is to be nude in front of an artist of the opposite gender. I was pointing out the double standard, that’s all.
My response was to the person who claimed that it’s supposedly impossible not to lust when seeing someone else naked.
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Debora123
Guest
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edwest2
Guest
It always has been in recent years. Why take the time to paint a nude when you can just buy porn? That’s the prevailing attitude today. They are not part of the same coin. When I turn on the TV or watch a movie, and there’s nudity, why is it there? To show me the beauty and dignity of the human form? No way - not by any stretch of the imagination. THE ONLY PURPOSE is to arouse the viewer.
Peace,
Ed
I’m sorry, but you obviously don’t have any concept of art or beauty in art or any idea of how to go about viewing the human body with detachment without relating it to sex.
Fra Angelico was a master artist of the middle ages and a Dominican Friar. He painted the nude human figure. Many artists continue this tradition today.
Please do not try to attach a sexual meaning to nude art when it just is not always there.
Fra Angelico was a master artist of the middle ages and a Dominican Friar. He painted the nude human figure. Many artists continue this tradition today.
Please do not try to attach a sexual meaning to nude art when it just is not always there.
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Do_Good_Then_Go
Guest
I’ve worked in a hospital for almost 30 years and I’ve seen how it goes. Health care professionals treat their patients with respect and, as AdamPeter says, with professional detachment. Are you saying otherwise?
As well as that…I’ve been a patient in hospital for epilepsy for over 12 years…I’ve been an in-patient and an out-patient & been dealt with by female & male professionals. To say what that you must see a male doctor if you’re male and vice-versa is just plain silly. These people are professionals, who do a job and do it exceptionally well the majority of the time.
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Baelor
Guest
That is not true. You cannot possibly make that broad of a generalization and support it. So, prove your statement or retract it.
Yes, he is. And he has years of experience in whatever field is in question that substantiates his opinion. Do not ask too many questions, though – all details about any of that experience or his qualifications are confidential!
Baelor…I seem to remember having this same debate with me and you and edwest some time ago.
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edwest2
Guest
I am getting sick and tired of hearing about the Middle Ages or ancient art or nudity in art specially done for religious buildings or institutions.
What you totally fail to see is that for most people, the lie that “sex sells” is all they’re after. Years of conditioning have brought the pagan culture to life and into the heads of way too many.
You have two magazines sitting next to each other on the shelf:
One is filled with religious and non-religious nudes that portray the beauty of the human form, and believe me, I’ve seen plenty of the religious type, and took life drawing in college, so I’ve been exposed to the non-religious as well, so let’s include one of my finest nude life drawings in the magazine as well.
Sitting next to it is a magazine filled with painted nudes titled “Hot, Sexy Babes,” with the sub-tile: “Nudes the way you like them.”
Please, get real. There is no way the average young person is going to buy the one and regale his friends with the awe he felt at seeing the perfection of God’s creation in a painting from the Sistine Chapel. Today, for most, women are just collections of body parts. A newspaper columnist made a purposely unflattering comparison of the Kardashians with Kentucky Fried Chicken: “They’re selling the same product - breasts, legs and thighs.”
The day may come, especially when Christian parents send all the filth to the landfill and teach their children to respect the whole human person and view the opposite sex as indeed a beautiful example of God’s creation - and I know there are pockets of individuals like that - but a survey of internet sites will reveal “collections of body parts” with no trace of the dignity of God’s creation in the rendering.
Peace,
Ed
There is a difference between porn and art.
I agree with the fact that there is a massive objectification of women today. But I think nude art is totally different. I have never seen a painted nude erotic magazine on a newsagent shelf.
Most artists study the figure and anatomy (or should) before they even enter a class with a naked model.
This is the difference between looking on a model with the eye of a student and the eye of a lecher.
I also think by some of the comments you’ve made, you simply are being puritan.
I agree with the fact that there is a massive objectification of women today. But I think nude art is totally different. I have never seen a painted nude erotic magazine on a newsagent shelf.
Most artists study the figure and anatomy (or should) before they even enter a class with a naked model.
This is the difference between looking on a model with the eye of a student and the eye of a lecher.
I also think by some of the comments you’ve made, you simply are being puritan.
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Baelor
Guest
Sex does sell, or else the born industry would not be doing so well.
Second, the fact that some people are after a bad facet of a good thing does not make the good thing bad.
That does not make nudity bad. That makes the decision to objectify women via sex bad.
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edwest2
Guest
Being puritan it is then. In the 1950s, there was still a loose connection with real art and the nude, precisely because the distance between the puritan and a healthy appreciation of the nude human being was not so great. The gap closed rather rapidly between the 1960s and 1970s with the opening of “Adult Bookstores.” I speak from personal experience. There were no art instruction books, no reproductions of images of nudes from the Sistine Chapel or anywhere from the Middle Ages inside. None.
A few years back, an artist friend of mine gave me a book about contemporary pin-up art and the paintings ran from good to just plain bad. And, at the end, the author admitted that the entire subject was in limbo and that no one he knows “knows where this is going.” Indeed.
Aside from a few who have continued a tradition firmly grounded in classical depictions of the nude and the dignity afforded to same, the rest are too busy making a buck out of drawing body parts. The average person today is not going to pay 60,000 Pounds or Euros or Dollars for a commission of a “nude reclining near pond.”
Peace,
Ed
I disagree…I think you seem to have come to have come from a place that has been removed from any classical tradition in art and that may explain your attitude to an extent.
I also think there are two types of people that don’t belong in a nude art class…puritans and “people interested in drawing body parts” as you say.
The instruction in art I have had is based on renaissance figurative art and the masters.
European tradition, especially that of Italy is deeply steeped in this culture of art.
I also think there are two types of people that don’t belong in a nude art class…puritans and “people interested in drawing body parts” as you say.
The instruction in art I have had is based on renaissance figurative art and the masters.
European tradition, especially that of Italy is deeply steeped in this culture of art.
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Baelor
Guest
Great, let all of humanity conform to the comments of your friend.
Such images have existed since almost the beginning of time. References to masturbation exist in Roman baths with terminology matching ours. Brothels existed in Catholic countries throughout history. I fail to see how this is a new development.
Exactly…you’re acting as if this is a totally new thing.
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