Back to the question of nude modeling

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I disagree…I think you seem to have come to have come from a place that has been removed from any classical tradition in art and that may explain your attitude to an extent.

I also think there are two types of people that don’t belong in a nude art class…puritans and “people interested in drawing body parts” as you say.

The instruction in art I have had is based on renaissance figurative art and the masters.
European tradition, especially that of Italy is deeply steeped in this culture of art.
The instruction you had… well, that’s one. My parents are from Europe, and on the internet, I get along best with Europeans on almost any subject. My first language was not English. I am sincerely glad that Italy is deeply steeped in the culture of art, but in the United States and much of the West, this is not the case.

I studied life drawing but saw too many of my peers who were unable to find work of if they did, depicted human beings, especially women, in a way that was not in the European tradition in the US. They either depicted what might be called functional art pieces, but only a few with any dignity.

With respect, you cannot set the standards for who is or is not allowed in art classes. In fact, too many art classes are run by anarchists/nihilists, which me and a close friend experienced in the 1970s, and we both quit after learning their art instruction was based on deformed brainwashing. In fact, his daughter recently told him, “Dad, they won’t teach me what I want to learn so I’m quitting” - the same prestigious art school her father attended in the 1970s. It’s quite obvious little has changed.

Peace,
Ed
 
I’m actually beginning to see where you’re coming from. I would still disagree on some points. (Male/female doctors etc.)

But my art instructor and the artist who painted the works I posted earlier spoke of a similar problem in some art institutions. When he expressed a desire to learn to draw the human figure in the style of the masters, there was little willingness to follow classical styles and a “modernistic” approach was adopted.
 
It always has been in recent years. Why take the time to paint a nude when you can just buy porn? That’s the prevailing attitude today. They are not part of the same coin. When I turn on the TV or watch a movie, and there’s nudity, why is it there? To show me the beauty and dignity of the human form? No way - not by any stretch of the imagination. THE ONLY PURPOSE is to arouse the viewer.

Peace,
Ed
I don’t think you understand at all what I was trying to say. Never mind.
 
Originally Posted by edwest2
Ugh, this is bothering me too much so I’ll just respond anyway, lol.

Once again, I KNOW that TV, movies, pornography, etc etc hypersexualize the human form. That’s exactly why I said “the media hypersexualizes the human form…”

That’s what I’m saying.

On the flip side, puritanical religious views ALSO hypersexualize the human form. By being unable to separate nudity from sex, in the same way.

That’s why I said both the media today (TV, movies, etc etc…) as well as puritanical religious views (such as the ones being expressed in this very thread) are 2 sides of the exact same coin. Because they both view the human body as always being about sex.
 
Ugh, this is bothering me too much so I’ll just respond anyway. Third attempt at explaining what I meant.

Once again, I KNOW that TV, movies, pornography, etc etc hypersexualize the human form. That’s exactly why I said “the media hypersexualizes the human form…”

That’s what I’m saying.

On the flip side, puritanical religious views ALSO hypersexualize the human form. By being unable to separate nudity from sex, in the same way.

That’s why I said both the media today (TV, movies, etc etc…) as well as puritanical religious views (such as the ones being expressed in this very thread) are 2 sides of the exact same coin. Because they both view the human body as always being about sex.
Debora, normal people understand and agree with exactly what you are saying. But I’m sure you have observed that certain individuals with certain axes to grind (and not just here on CAF, but many places in life) are so willfully blind to logic and what constitutes a valid argument that it boggles the mind. These are the people that you just stop responding to after a while, whether on CAF, Facebook, real life, whatever. It’s just not worth the aggravation. If I want something to aggravate me, I’ll go do some work.
 
Debora, normal people understand and agree with exactly what you are saying. But I’m sure you have observed that certain individuals with certain axes to grind (and not just here on CAF, but many places in life) are so willfully blind to logic and what constitutes a valid argument that it boggles the mind. These are the people that you just stop responding to after a while, whether on CAF, Facebook, real life, whatever. It’s just not worth the aggravation. If I want something to aggravate me, I’ll go do some work.
It’s like me saying this:

“Eating cookies for dinner is unhealthy, but eating only lettuce for dinner is unhealthy too. They may be opposites, but they are both alike in that they would both not make for a proper dinner.”

And someone responding with this:

“Cookies ARE unhealthy to eat as dinner! What do you think they are? They’re sugars and fat and empty calories! Nothing good comes out of eating them for dinner!”

…and it’s just like, um yeah, I got that and that’s what I said, though you’re completely missing the point of my post.
 
That was the problem I faced in the mid-1970s when I went to University to take art classes. The Hippies/Anarchists/Nihilists/Marxist/Socialists had just completed overruning it.

At first, as a Catholic that was told to respect my elders and instructors, and after spending so much time in Catholic school, I was totally unprepared to believe what was happening. In a nutshell, I was taught:

Self-expression was everything. The old was, well, old.

Self-expression meant you had no limits - defame, blaspheme, celebrate the bizarre and immoral. Any criticism meant nothing because you were given blanket freedom by calling yourself an artist and your work Art. Art meant you were instantly absolved of all by all.

The incomprehensible was filled with meaning.

In my advanced painting class, my instructor came up to me and asked what I was doing, and I said, I was trying to paint the non-live model. He grabbed my brush, slammed down a bunch of lines, and handed it back to me.

In my art appreciation class, we sat in a theater style setting with a stage and large screen at the far end. Our instructor put up a slide showing a clear, rectangular block of plexiglass with short metal rods sticking out of it at intervals. Then, with great emotion in his voice, he gestured with his arm and said, “This is a man’s life!!”

My life drawing instructor took our class to the local art museum back when the city I lived in was still somewhat livable. As I viewed the exhibits, I came across a spiral of duct tape on the floor that was about 30 feet across. Ah, but lucky for me, there was a small white card on the floor that read: “Please do not remove. This is art.” Wow. At that moment I realized that what I was receiving was not art instruction but brainwashing. As if I was attending a Communist reeducation school, I realized that only those who accepted what was taught could “see” this was art. The cleaning lady, on the other hand, might scrape it up off the floor, The sheer fact that the card was there confirmed that “they” knew this, but continued teaching what they wanted us to believe anyway.

And by the way, when I asked my life drawing instructor what that spiral of duct tape meant. I was told, “That’s a man’s life!”

So, after spending a lot of time in my advanced painting class, and watching most of my classmates painting the incomprehensible, I learned something else. Our instructor would select a random student to sit down and review their latest finished canvas during class. We were all invited to attend. In one case, a young lady placed her latest piece on an easel as instructor and student took their seats about 8 feet away.

The painting was mostly black with random colored lines, some triangles in various spots and what looked like small stars in various random spots. The instructor asked her what she was trying to accomplish and about her vision. Well, she stumbled to find the right words, made a little sense for a while and then veered off to explain the non-obvious.

The instructor, much like a psychologist, said things like: “I don’t think you’ve found your focus yet. You need to refine your vision and gain confidence with it…”

The next time around, another student with his own incomprehensible art, told an interesting and amusing story about. So, if the story was well told, even though the average human being could not make heads or tails of what he was looking at, the instructor would say: “You are realizing your vision. I can see cubist and post-modernist elements in your work but with your own unique touches. I encourage you to continue to refine your vision.”

OK.

Now, after trying for so long to paint something realistic, it was time for my final exam. It was a significant fraction of my grade. So I decided to try my theory. Instead of spending hours trying to draw something real, I took a piece of canvas board, applied some gesso (a white undercoat), and proceeded to draw curving and circular shapes wherever I wanted and I mixed no paint. All of it was straight out of the tube. 15 minutes later, I was done.

The next day, my instructor came up to my piece and said, “Hmm. Hmm. Why haven’t you been doing this sort of work all along?” I promptly quit school after that. But a few days later, when I came back to retrieve my paintings from my part of the rack, all of it was there except for the little abstract piece.

Peace,
Ed
 
What is really sad is the graphic exploitation of male and female sex acts. We cannot call ourselves civil or civilized if we say it’s OK. Human dignity requires human decency.

Peace,
Ed
How does that have anything to do with drawing from the nude model to create religious artwork? :confused:
 
That was the problem I faced in the mid-1970s when I went to University to take art classes. The Hippies/Anarchists/Nihilists/Marxist/Socialists had just completed overruning it. …] etc.
So, you didn’t get to have a classical art education, so nobody else gets to have one? :confused:
 
It always has been in recent years. Why take the time to paint a nude when you can just buy porn? That’s the prevailing attitude today. They are not part of the same coin. When I turn on the TV or watch a movie, and there’s nudity, why is it there? To show me the beauty and dignity of the human form? No way - not by any stretch of the imagination. THE ONLY PURPOSE is to arouse the viewer.

Peace,
Ed
All the more reason to continue with “innocent” nude art!

Sexual behavior is one of many things we human brings do. Bodies are who we are! And we receive them nude!

The sexual revolution has long since had its way with the general society. We should not allow it to redefine our bodies!

God Bless, ICXC NIKA
 
All the more reason to continue with “innocent” nude art!

Sexual behavior is one of many things we human brings do. Bodies are who we are! And we receive them nude!

The sexual revolution has long since had its way with the general society. We should not allow it to redefine our bodies!

God Bless, ICXC NIKA
And where do you find this innocent nude art, outside the classroom?

Peace,
Ed
 
snip…

In my art appreciation class, we sat in a theater style setting with a stage and large screen at the far end. Our instructor put up a slide showing a clear, rectangular block of plexiglass with short metal rods sticking out of it at intervals. Then, with great emotion in his voice, he gestured with his arm and said, “This is a man’s life!!”

…snip

Peace,
Ed
Please understand that I know NOTHING about art and don’t know one end of a paintbrush from the other but I too have had that ‘scratching my head’ reaction when standing in front of some modern art and sculpture. What’s funny is that your post could easily be used as a defence for the idea that artists need to get back to basics and learn how to draw the human body rather than concentrating on plexiglass cubes. It’s hardly an argument against nude modelling in art class!
 
All the more reason to continue with “innocent” nude art!

Sexual behavior is one of many things we human brings do. Bodies are who we are! And we receive them nude!

The sexual revolution has long since had its way with the general society. We should not allow it to redefine our bodies!

God Bless, ICXC NIKA
👍
 
Please understand that I know NOTHING about art and don’t know one end of a paintbrush from the other but I too have had that ‘scratching my head’ reaction when standing in front of some modern art and sculpture. What’s funny is that your post could easily be used as a defence for the idea that artists need to get back to basics and learn how to draw the human body rather than concentrating on plexiglass cubes. It’s hardly an argument against nude modelling in art class!
I agree - we need to get back to classical art education!
 
And where do you find this innocent nude art, outside the classroom?

Peace,
Ed
Nobody said we find it outside the classroom - we don’t.

It’s proper context is within a classroom of serious art students, being taught by a competent instructor.
 
Nobody said we find it outside the classroom - we don’t.

It’s proper context is within a classroom of serious art students, being taught by a competent instructor.
I see. So aside from something I never said - that nudity can only be properly done only for religious works for public viewing - there are no places outside the classroom where “innocent nudity” can be shown for public viewing and I mean public viewing - not tucked away in a tiny art gallery.

Kind of defeats the whole “beauty of God’s creation” argument.

Peace,
Ed
 
I see. So aside from something I never said - that nudity can only be properly done only for religious works for public viewing - there are no places outside the classroom where “innocent nudity” can be shown for public viewing and I mean public viewing - not tucked away in a tiny art gallery.

Kind of defeats the whole “beauty of God’s creation” argument.

Peace,
Ed
What do you think the Sistine Chapel is? It’s hardly “tucked away” and it’s definitely public - they say Mass in there, several times a day.
 
At this stage, I think ed is just disagreeing for the sake of it.

I’ve said all I have to say and am bowing out.
 
And where do you find this innocent nude art, outside the classroom? Peace, Ed
The Vatican Museums?

The Louvre?

The Florentine Uffizi?

Any of scores of art museums in Europe, or a handful in the New World?

ICXC NIKA
 
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