Bad music for Mass

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I was on YouTube this morning and found this.
youtube.com/watch?v=4HBP1AuhLGo

I don’t see anything morally wrong with the way that this is performed, but I can’t stand hearing music like this at Mass. It’s too folky for me.

Also, the English translation of the Gloria that is used here omits “good will to men (bone voluntatis),” and that really gets under my skin for some reason. I’ve heard this same English translation in other modern settings of the Gloria.

This is the kind of music that I sometimes have to put up with if I’m forced to go to Mass at a parish other than my own. What do you think?
 
TBolt1000T said:
I was on YouTube this morning and found this.
youtube.com/watch?v=4HBP1AuhLGo

I don’t see anything morally wrong with the way that this is performed, but I can’t stand hearing music like this at Mass. It’s too folky for me.

Also, the English translation of the Gloria that is used here omits “good will to men (bone voluntatis),” and that really gets under my skin for some reason. I’ve heard this same English translation in other modern settings of the Gloria.

This is the kind of music that I sometimes have to put up with if I’m forced to go to Mass at a parish other than my own. What do you think?
Click to expand...
For now the official translation of the Gloria is ‘Peace to his people on earth’.

As for the Youtube piece, as much as I don’t like responsorial Glorias, I don’t really mind the setting (it’s better than Mass of Creation and Carey Landry’s Gloria from ‘Mass for Young People’ or whatever it’s called). Unfortunately, it isn’t faithful to the official text so it’s a no-no for use at Mass. Note that it omits the part about Jesus being the ‘only son of the Father’.
 
“Peace to his people on Earth” is not faithful to the original Latin text, or the Biblical text. Why they omitted “good will to men,” I’ll never know. I’m so glad that they’re retranslating the Novus Ordo!

About the other omission, to be honest, I never made it that far through the video. There’s a parish not far from where I live that plays music just like this at Mass, and I can’t stand it. It wouldn’t surprise me if one of the more liberal parishes used this setting.
 
For years my parish used the Somerville Gloria from the (New) Good Shepherd Mass. For years, in Canada, it was the one Gloria that was common to most English parishes. Lately the choir has resurrected Carey Landry’s awful responsorial Gloria. I’ve tried to explain to the pastor why it’s totally inappropriate but nothing will ever be done.

This is the text:

Refrain:

“Glory be to the Father; glory be to the Son; Glory be to the Spirit, All glory to our God”!

We praise you, we bless you, we give you thanks.
We praise you for your glory.
We praise you, we bless you, we worship you,
O Lord, our God.

Lord Jesus Christ,
only Son of God!
You are one with the Father.
Receive our prayer.

There are two more verses that I can’t remember – that should say something.

For a critical look at the responsorial Gloria and a critique of this one in particular go here.
 
Thankfully, my parish is currently using the Latin Gloria from Missa De Angelis at our 11:00 Novus Ordo. At the 9:30 Novus Ordo, we use an English setting, which isn’t my favorite, but it’s far better than the ones with guitars.
 
Sorry, but it sounds like music you’d hear on preschool give-mommy-a-rest TV.

As John Paul II lamented, there is a need to “purify worship from ugliness of style, from distasteful forms of expression, from uninspired musical texts which are not worthy of the great act that is being celebrated, to guarantee dignity and excellence to liturgical compositions.” He also reaffirmed that “not all without distinction that is outside the temple (profanum) is fit to cross its threshold” and that “if music - instrumental and vocal - does not possess at the same time the sense of prayer, dignity and beauty, it precludes the entry into the sphere of the sacred and the religious”

Is it any wonder we lose so many teens when this is the liturgical atmosphere they grow up in? Lex orandi, lex credendi.
 
At leas you don’t have to contend with horrid Spanish versions of the Gloria, Sanctus, Memorial, and Agnus Dei that we have in our area. OCP plays fast and loose with the Gloria, chopping up 1/2 of it and deleting references to Jesus as the only Son of the Father and the name of the Father. I told the Cathedral organist that he needs to find a Gloria that is faithful to the text (word for word) and is not a responsorial one.

The Sanctus is also problematic because strange things are inserted in the middle. Bob Hurd’s Agnus Dei is just awful. He lumps everything together.

We are also stuck with Marty Haugen’s Mass of Creation Gloria. I don’t like it and have never realy cared for it.

I do love the Gloria from Richard Proulix. It is his Community Mass setting. I am hoping that he can find a way to tool the setting around the new text.
 
TBolt1000T said:
I was on YouTube this morning and found this.
youtube.com/watch?v=4HBP1AuhLGo

Also, the English translation of the Gloria that is used here omits “good will to men (bone voluntatis),” and that really gets under my skin for some reason. I’ve heard this same English translation in other modern settings of the Gloria.
Click to expand...
It’s not ‘good will to men’, though, it’s “Et in terra pax hominibus bonae voluntatis” which translates to “And on earth peace to men of good will”

FWIW, the French also have a bad translation “Peace on the earth to the men he loves”.
 
Phemie said:
It’s not ‘good will to men’, though, it’s “Et in terra pax hominibus bonae voluntatis” which translates to “And on earth peace to men of good will”

FWIW, the French also have a bad translation “Peace on the earth to the men he loves”.
Click to expand...
I hope tee_eff_em, or one of the other Latinists, will jump in here to discuss the nature of the genitive, bonae voluntatis. I think that, based on grammar alone, it might be ambiguous, so that both
men who themselves have good will toward the Lord
Click to expand...
and
men toward whom the Lord has good will, or His people on earth
Click to expand...
are reasonable, based on grammar alone. If I’m right about that, and grammatical rules about the genitive case can’t settle the issue, then it’s a question of interpretation:

Interpretive issue: Which translation is more faithful to original, intended meaning? Or, why did recent translators choose, “His people on earth?”

Grammar: Here’s what makes me think both translations of the genitive might be correct grammatically:

There has been intense debate in some circles about translations of the Greek phrase pistis Christou, at Rom 3:22, Gal 2:16, Gal 2:20, Phil. 3.9, & Eph. 3.12.

According to Luke Timothy Johnson, the genitive Greek is correctly rendered Christic faith, which is ambiguous: “[our] faith in Christ” or “[the] faith of Christ.” One is so-called objective genitive and the other is subjective genitive. (There. The sum total of my knowledge of Greek grammar.)

It seems to me that something like that subjective/objective genitive is in play when bonae voluntatis is translated as both “men of good will,” and “His people on earth.”

Meaning: On the other hand, if we drew a Ven diagram of “men of good will,” and “His people on earth,” would they coincide? Or, which would be bigger?

ASD​

Traditional Latin Mass: Translation and Grammar
 
The new translation of the Ordinary of the Mass has it as

“Glory to God in the highest,
and on earth peace to people of good will.”
 
My church’s most-played Gloria goes like this:

REFRAIN:
Glory, glory to God,
Glory in the highest
Glory, glory to God
Glory to God Most High!

VERSE 1:
O Lord, Holy One,
Almighty God and Father,
We worship You, we give You thanks,
We praise You for Your Glory.

REFRAIN

VERSE 2:
O Lord Jesus Christ,
Holy One, Redeemer
Lord God, Lamb of God,
You take away the sin of the world.

REFRAIN

VERSE 3:
You alone are the Holy One,
You alone are the Lord,
You alone are the Most High God,
With the Spirit in the Glory of God!

REFRAIN

What do you think of this one?
 
DeaconsSon87 said:
My church’s most-played Gloria goes like this:

…]

What do you think of this one?
Click to expand...
Yeah, that would be a no. 😛
ASD said:
I think that, based on grammar alone, it might be ambiguous, so that both …] are reasonable, based on grammar alone.%between%
Click to expand...
You have to look at the Greek for that, which is behind the Latin rendering of the text. I do understand that it is the second translation that is correct (it refers to God’s ‘good will’), but the actual Greek grammar I am not sure of.
 
DeaconsSon87 said:
My church’s most-played Gloria goes like this:

REFRAIN:
Glory, glory to God,
Glory in the highest
Glory, glory to God
Glory to God Most High!

VERSE 1:
O Lord, Holy One,
Almighty God and Father,
We worship You, we give You thanks,
We praise You for Your Glory.

REFRAIN

VERSE 2:
O Lord Jesus Christ,
Holy One, Redeemer
Lord God, Lamb of God,
You take away the sin of the world.

REFRAIN

VERSE 3:
You alone are the Holy One,
You alone are the Lord,
You alone are the Most High God,
With the Spirit in the Glory of God!

REFRAIN

What do you think of this one?
Click to expand...
It should not be used because it is a paraphrase of the official text. Paraphrases of the official texts of the prayers of the Mass are not allowed.
 
benedictgal said:
At leas you don’t have to contend with horrid Spanish versions of the Gloria, Sanctus, Memorial, and Agnus Dei that we have in our area. OCP plays fast and loose with the Gloria, chopping up 1/2 of it and deleting references to Jesus as the only Son of the Father and the name of the Father. I told the Cathedral organist that he needs to find a Gloria that is faithful to the text (word for word) and is not a responsorial one.
Click to expand...
Which of OCP’s version’s of the Gloria do this???
 
VAC said:
Which of OCP’s version’s of the Gloria do this???
Click to expand...
There are about four of them. Ironically, one of them is marked Tradicional, and, it is far from Tradicional.

Here is what they look like:
Gloria al Senor, que reina en los cielos y en la tierra paz a los hombres que ama El.
Click to expand...
Senor te adoramos. Senor te bendecimos. Todos te alabamos gracias por tu gloria.
Click to expand...
Tu eres el Cordero que quitas el pecado. Ten piedad de nostors y escuha nuestro oracion.
Click to expand...
Tu solo eres Santo. Tu solo el altissimo. Con el Espiritu Santo en la Gloria de Dios Padre.
Click to expand...
Here is the translation in Englsh:
Glory to God in the highest and peace on earth to those men that he loves.
Click to expand...
Lord, we adore you. Lord we praise you. Lord we worship you. Thank you for your glory.
Click to expand...
You are the Lamb who takes away sin. Have mercy on us and listen to our prayer.
Click to expand...
You alone are Holy. You are alone are the Most High, with the Holy Spirit in the glory of God the Father.
Click to expand...
Does this not look like some major deletions havppened here? This is what many parishes sing week after week. OCP’s new Flor y Canto came out way after Liturgiam Authenticam was promulgated. Does it look like OCP even bothered to read the document? Evidently, I don’t think so.
 
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