Bad News....

[TheMc]

At least a few of us can do our part in giving Marty Haugen’s music the place it deserves – in the trash bin. It’s not Catholic and it’s certainly not what our Holy Father has been asking for.

Whoo hoo!!! I’ll join you with that!

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

Whoo hoo!!! I’ll join you with that!

Bring the hot dogs. I’ll bring the soda!

 

[Sarabande]

Because, based on what people have been posting on CAF, many people thought that the new, more accurate translation of the Mass coming out at Advent also meant that all the “bad” music would be banned and parishes would be required to have only “good” music at Mass, meaning Gregorian chant, sacred polyphony, and traditional Catholic hymns.

Perhaps some people on CAF thought that, but that’s not what I got from most CAF people. In real life, though, most of my colleagues, including myself, didn’t think that. We have been preparing by getting revised mass settings and some new settings.

At our parish and in our diocese, we have known about the new translation for the last few years, and we’ve seen various informational papers about it. But never have we seen any mention of a “banned” music list. There has been information about new Mass settings and re-writings of old Mass settings to make their translation more accurate, but at no time were we told that the old settings and composers would be completely banned, or that the only music allowed would be “older” music.

I believe the hope was (at least amongst my colleagues) was that there would be some new, masterful mass settings… compositionally speaking. My older colleagues who were working during the first translations in Vat II have all told me that there were actually some really beautiful mass settings composed initially, but then they were all discarded when the “old” revised (meaning the one that has recently been revised) translation came out and for some reasons those composers were not being used afterwards. After that, there were a lot of “ok” mass settings or just plain bad settings.

 

[Samuel63]

What’s also sad is that when I attended a diocesan workshop on implementing music for the new translation, they specifically mentioned that it was perfectly okay to do something which GIRM forbids. I knew that people would try to find ways to work around changes they don’t like, but for them to blatantly say it’s permissible to disobey the Church was utterly astounding to me.

You are so encouraging. Thanks for posting! Please stay involved in music liturgy!

 

[TrueLight]

Question: When are these mass settings used?

I have attended a couple of OF masses, and I didn’t see the congregation really singing any songs?

 

[Sarabande]

People did expect better with the new Mass settings coming for the new translation, especially since our Holy Father has been calling repeatedly for music to return to holiness of form, that is back to Gregorian chant! And he’s not being listened to, it’s quite clear.

Exactly… You said that better than myself. There are ways to compose new music in the spirit of chant or even to incorporate the actual older chants to newer music. Look at Durufle’s “Requiem” mass. Of course, one would need a choir for that particular mass, but I look at that as a model of a great composition.

What’s also sad is that when I attended a diocesan workshop on implementing music for the new translation, they specifically mentioned that it was perfectly okay to do something which GIRM forbids. I knew that people would try to find ways to work around changes they don’t like, but for them to blatantly say it’s permissible to disobey the Church was utterly astounding to me.

That is sad, but unfortunately, not surprising.

 

[ProVobis]

They all make me sick. Isn’t this what we’re trying to avoid?

How is a new translation going to prevent more copyrighted music to be composed and played? If anything, I’d expect more, not less. They’d have to practically ban the English Mass altogether to reinstate more of Jubilate Deo into the Mass as was the wish of Paul VI.

 

[TheMc]

They’d have to practically ban the English Mass altogether to reinstate more of Jubilate Deo into the Mass as was the wish of Paul VI.

That wouldn’t be so bad.

 

[jwinch2]

I’ll probably get beat up for this on CAF but frankly, I think we should hire some Anglican composers to develop some good, reverent mass settings. They have a wonderful music tradition in their liturgy and unlike much of the traditional Catholic music, it was designed for the English language.

 

[TheMc]

I’ll probably get beat up for this on CAF but frankly, I think we should hire some Anglican composers to develop some good, reverent mass settings. They have a wonderful music tradition in their liturgy and unlike much of the traditional Catholic music, it was designed for the English language.

I’m not sure that would be such a bad idea.

 

[TrueLight]

I’ll probably get beat up for this on CAF but frankly, I think we should hire some Anglican composers to develop some good, reverent mass settings. They have a wonderful music tradition in their liturgy and unlike much of the traditional Catholic music, it was designed for the English language.

You won’t get beat up by me. Protestants write lovely church music!

Either that or bring Vaughan Williams and other wonderful Catholic composers of old back from the dead.

 

[Sarabande]

I’ll probably get beat up for this on CAF but frankly, I think we should hire some Anglican composers to develop some good, reverent mass settings. They have a wonderful music tradition in their liturgy and unlike much of the traditional Catholic music, it was designed for the English language.

No pummels from me. I love Anglican church music. There is an Anglican church near me that does incredible high church music. If they weren’t Protestant, you’d swear that the masses were more “Catholic” than a typical Catholic mass. Of course, they have something like a million dollar endowment given by generous parishioners just for their music program there, so they obviously would have incredible music and top notch musicians.

 

[ProVobis]

You won’t get beat up by me. Protestants write lovely church music!

Especially J.S. Bach et al.

 

[Sarabande]

Either that or bring Vaughan Williams and other wonderful Catholic composers of old back from the dead.

Gosh… Vaughan Williams… (sigh) he really was a wonderful composer.

 

[Sarabande]

Especially J.S. Bach et al.

 

[Newbie2]

Yes. He clearly writes for a Catholic audience, and many of his songs are theologically questionable, and many of the pieces from his well known Mass setting (MOC) are illicit to even use. Why shouldn’t we be critical?

And why do you think that is? It’s because those IN CHARGE let his music be played. There is a need, he is filling it the best way he knows how. You think he’s deliberately writing “heretical” lyrics and disrespectful music? Opinion aside, there is no evidence of that happening.

If you don’t like the music, fine, critisize the music. But if you don’t like it being used in mass, methinks your criticism is misdirected. He has absolutely no say in whether or not his music is used in any mass, right?

Criticism should be directed toward those who allow questionable or clearly objectionable music at the mass.

Seems that some here are blaming a Protestant for acting like a Protestant.

 

[Phemie]

Question: When are these mass settings used?

I have attended a couple of OF masses, and I didn’t see the congregation really singing any songs?

When we talk about Mass settings we are talking about the music for the parts of the Mass: Kyrie in its 3 forms, Gloria, Sanctus (Holy, Holy, Holy), the 3 Memorial Acclamations, Amen, Agnus Dei (Lamb of God)

Chant settings also include the Creed, Preface Dialogue, Doxology (Through Him, and with Him and in Him…), the Lord’s Prayer, the Blessing and the Dismissal.

While not included in our new supplement to the CBW III, there is probably also a chant setting for the Greeting and the pre-Gospel dialogue.

I hope your question doesn’t mean that you’ve never been lucky enough to attend a Mass with more than the four-hymn sandwich (Entrance/Offertory/Communion/Recessional Hymns).

 

[ProVobis]

You think he’s deliberately writing “heretical” lyrics and disrespectful music?

I don’t think heresy is at the top of concerns when anyone starts composing a song. Let’s face it, he or she wants to sell it. Just being realistic (and cynical maybe). I haven’t heard of too many altruistic reasons in song-writing lately, except embellishments (introductions, etc.) by organists and pianists perhaps.

 

[Newbie2]

I don’t think heresy is at the top of concerns when anyone starts composing a song. Let’s face it, he or she wants to sell it. Just being realistic. I haven’t heard of too many altruistic reasons in song-writing lately.

Yes, that’s part of my point. Why sell “Churchy” music when you can probably make a whole lot more in the secular feel-good, unitarian-like, there-is-probably-a-god-out-there-somewhere, nature worshiping, new age music?

I don’t see it likely that a protestant composer/writer is going to specifically target Catholic liturgy and at the same time try to subvert it with heresy. If publishers buy the rights to his music and sell it as acceptable liturgy, I’m saying the blame needs to be directed toward them, not the composer, that’s all.

 

[Phemie]

And why do you think that is? It’s because those IN CHARGE let his music be played. There is a need, he is filling it the best way he knows how. You think he’s deliberately writing “heretical” lyrics and disrespectful music? Opinion aside, there is no evidence of that happening.

If you don’t like the music, fine, critisize the music. But if you don’t like it being used in mass, methinks your criticism is misdirected. He has absolutely no say in whether or not his music is used in any mass, right?

Criticism should be directed toward those who allow questionable or clearly objectionable music at the mass.

Seems that some here are blaming a Protestant for acting like a Protestant.

I’m sorry but he’s presenting himself as a composer of Catholic Mass settings.

I’ve only ever come across one priest who knew anything about music (he was forced by his Bishop to study and get a degree in music before he was allowed to be ordained) and would have been able to evaluate the quality of the music in his parish. All the others figure that if someone included it in a Catholic hymnal it has to be ok. We know that Mass of Creation appears in many Catholic hymnals in spite of the fact that several parts violate the rules of the GIRM.

In small parishes where the director of music is a volunteer, often with no formal music education, the problem is compounded. I’ve seen enough of that in the last 45 years.