Right, I said that Simon described/related what happened, James (and not Simon)made the judgement and the judgment was made on behalf of all. Stew said a “Papal declaration” was made. Look at the passage and you should be able to figure out which one of us got it right…and which one fudged it
Radical, I placed “papal declaration” in quotes for a reason. Are you familiar with the phrase “tongue-in-cheek?”
Do you deny that St. Peter was singled out for leadership in the early church? That is, do you deny that he possessed the capacity (authority) to settle disputes?
let’s be clear on how perceived heresies are dealt with…wars were declared in which many are brutally killed, inquisitions are conducted in which many were tortured and killed, people were assassinated, burned at the stake and drowned…it was a uniformity in belief achieved by the sword (and in the process the moral authority of the Catholic hierarchy was lost to a considerable degree)
You are in a Catholic forum, my friend. I would appreciate it if you would not distort the truth by saying the way Catholics deal with heretics is by killing/torturing/maiming them.
I assume you’ve been reading some protestant reformation propaganda, perhaps Foxe’s Book of Martyrs?
I don’t deny the Church has had (and still has) within its body some bad actors. Do you also recognize bad Protestant actors? Are you aware that after KH8 broke from the Church that Catholics were demonized, tortured, killed, etc.? Entire monasteries were burned to the ground, our Churches were looted, land was stolen, and given to nobles. Catholics were forced to pay fines (or worse) if they continued to believe in the authority of the Pope - many were forced to attend protestant services. Priests, bishops, monks were tortured for their treason. Do you recognize any of this?
well, if the Pope isn’t infallible, then that would exactly be the case of the blind leading the blind…you and Stew need to get your acts together…his assertion seems to be that everyone (in the non-denominational world) is their own leader…perhaps you could get an infallible ruling on whose description is accurate?
What I said and what LilyM said are not mutually exclusive.
that is a number that has been discredited repeatedly…its lies, darn lies and statistics used by the Catholics here.
Let’s say it’s five. Does it matter?
A good deal of the problem arose b/c the hierarchy of the CC has lost its moral authority, partly b/c of how it dealt with “heresies”, partly b/c of recent sex scandals…but in general, b/c when one looks at the conduct of the hierarchy over the centuries one sees nothing that distinguishes it and places it in a class by itself…it is very, very human in all aspects w/o any sign of being exceptionally linked to God…and an exceptional link to God is what is needed for a moral authority derived from God…and for infallibility…at least that is the way most see it.
Again, this is a Catholic forum so please show some respect. You’re basically saying that the Catholic Church is evil – you obviously joined CAF with an agenda in mind. The kind of anti-Catholic rhetoric you spew has no place on CAF and is best left on CARM.
Seeing as how you have the wisdom to discern good from evil, and have decided that the Church is evil, which church do you attend? Which pastor is your moral authority? How is he or she exceptionally linked to God? Or are you saying that YOU are exceptionally linked to God and possess some sort of moral authority?
well, it doesn’t seem much prettier inside Catholicism (wrt the things that you singled out for attention) and we have seen the fruits of your sort of thinking (wars, inquisitions and the like). B/c of freedom we are free to reject the Catholic hierarchy and b/c of its loss of power the Catholic hierarchy now has to concern itself with public opinion…that is what seems to account for the lack of bad Popes lately…again, a very human (not divine) reason for the observed change.
See above.
