Bad Priests For Confession

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That’s why I used the word “try”. That’s actually what you guys say in the Roman Act of Contrition.

Fraternally,

Br JR, OSF 🙂
Wait, “That’s actually what you guys say in the Roman Act of Contrition.” If you’re not Roman Catholic what are you?
 
Wait, “That’s actually what you guys say in the Roman Act of Contrition.” If you’re not Roman Catholic what are you?
I am Roman Catholic. Remember, I’m Franciscan. We use the Roman-Franciscan Sacramentary. Some things are different.

Most Roman Catholics say:

**O MY GOD, I am heartily sorry for having offended Thee, and I detest all my sins because I dread the loss of Heaven and the pains of Hell; but most of all because they offend Thee, my God, Who art all-good and deserving of all my love. I firmly resolve, with the help of Thy grace, to confess my sins, to do penance, and to amend my life. Amen. **

We say:

**Forgive me my sins, O Lord, forgive me my sins;
the sins of my youth, the sins of my age, the sins of my soul,
the sins of my body; my idle sins, my serious voluntary sins;
the sins I know, the sins I do not know; the sins I have concealed
for so long, and which are now hidden from my memory.

I am truly sorry for every sin, mortal and venial,
for all the sins of my childhood up to the present hour.

I know my sins have wounded Thy Tender Heart,
O My Savior, let me be freed from the bonds of evil through
the most bitter Passion of My Redeemer. Amen.

O My Jesus, forget and forgive what I have been. Amen. **

However, many of the older guys never learned the second Act of Contrition in English, so they either say it in Latin, say the first one or use a spontaneous pray of contrition…

Fraternally,

Br.JR, OSF 🙂
 
I am Roman Catholic. Remember, I’m Franciscan. We use the Roman-Franciscan Sacramentary. Some things are different.

Most Roman Catholics say:

**O MY GOD, I am heartily sorry for having offended Thee, and I detest all my sins because I dread the loss of Heaven and the pains of Hell; but most of all because they offend Thee, my God, Who art all-good and deserving of all my love. I firmly resolve, with the help of Thy grace, to confess my sins, to do penance, and to amend my life. Amen. **

We say:

**Forgive me my sins, O Lord, forgive me my sins;
the sins of my youth, the sins of my age, the sins of my soul,
the sins of my body; my idle sins, my serious voluntary sins;
the sins I know, the sins I do not know; the sins I have concealed
for so long, and which are now hidden from my memory.

I am truly sorry for every sin, mortal and venial,
for all the sins of my childhood up to the present hour.

I know my sins have wounded Thy Tender Heart,
O My Savior, let me be freed from the bonds of evil through
the most bitter Passion of My Redeemer. Amen.

O My Jesus, forget and forgive what I have been. Amen. **

However, many of the older guys never learned the second Act of Contrition in English, so they either say it in Latin, say the first one or use a spontaneous pray of contrition…

Fraternally,

Br.JR, OSF 🙂
Indeed. I actually learned the first version from the EWTN website. The original version I was taught is “Oh my God I am heartily sorry for having offended thee. And I detest all my sins because of thy just punishment. But most of all, because they offend thee my God, who art all good and deserving of all my love. I firmly resolve, with the help of they Grace, to sin no more, and to avoid the near-occasion of sin. Amen.”

Your version actually intrigues me. I wonder what a Priest in my diocese would do if I pulled that prayer on them. They would probably respond with “No, your Act of Contrition.” 😃
 
Wait, “That’s actually what you guys say in the Roman Act of Contrition.” If you’re not Roman Catholic what are you?
There are different kinds of Catholic y’know 😉 there’s at least 22 other “kinds” out there
 
Actually, Knight, as long as you have the elements of contrition (sorrow for offending God) and express purpose of amendment, you can pretty much use an act of contrition in your own words, and it would be considered a valid act of contrition. I like the Franciscan version because it covers “those sins that are hidden from my memory,” as well as venial sins.

Brother JR, you made a comment about what a priest does when a penitent expresses suicidal ideation in the confessional. I’ve noticed that it seems that some people tend to use the sacrament of reconciliation as a substitute for short term psychotherapy, at least if you look at some of the responses on these fora, and it’s a little scary. When a seminarian is going through formation, and learning pastoral care, does he actually get any training as to how to handle situations in which a penitent may be seriously psychologically disturbed? Obviously, a priest can’t call the mental health crisis line and tell them about a suicidal penitent, any more than he can call the authorities and tell them about a homicidal one. But I’ve always been curious about what exactly a priest tries to do, at least in the case of a suicidal person. Since a lot of priests work in parishes at least part of their lives, I’d think that they have some psychologic training in basic counseling skills, but realize that that could vary widely. And since spiritual health is so closely intertwined with mental health, it seems that a lot of seriously hurting people approach their priests while trying to unravel some gordian knots of guilt and shame.
 
The second time, the priest misunderstood something I said in confession. When I tried to clear up the misunderstanding, he got annoyed and responded loudly, making reference to the sins I was confessing - loudly enough that I was seriously concerned his comments could be concerned by the people who were waiting in the line outside the confessional. And I got one or two “looks” as I was leaving. 😊
That is not a “minor uncomfortable experience.” That is a serious problem- you need to find another confessor (and if by some unfortunate circumstance you happen to go to that one again, ask him to be more careful about keeping his voice down in the confessional as people outside can hear him).
 
I had a plan, but the plan backfired as there were three sins I really wanted to confess, but during the confession I decided the one wasn’t a sin at all, but then I changed my mind at the last moment, but I couldn’t confess it because I was supposed to say the Act of Contrition and I didn’t want to tell him I had one more as I had done it a minute before and he was annoyed about it. Was it a sacrilege at all because I felt pressured not to say it, or was it still my fault?
I don’t understand why you are blaming your nervousness or change of mind on the priest? You asked him to hear your confession directly after Mass, which is usually a very busy time for priests. You didn’t seem prepared (even though you may have been). You didn’t confess a sin that probably you should have. None of those are the priest’s fault. You received absolution, so the confession was valid for the sins you confessed.

Go to confession again at the next regularly scheduled time and confess the sin you left out. If you have questions about certain behaviors or would like counselling on how to avoid certain sins, make an appointment with your priest or a spiritual director. That will help you go to confession in a more prepared state.
 
I’ve never liked hearing of priests being disgruntled because someone asked them to hear a confession that wasn’t at 7:30pm on a Saturday. Likewise those who ill refuse to hear a confession for those reasons.

A priest should be willing to hear confession 24/7. The only time they should legitimately refuse is if they are celebrating the Holy Mass which cannot be interrupted.
Priests are also people. They are not confession machines. Unless you are at risk of dying, there is no reason to expect a priest to drop everything to hear your confession when it is convenient for you. Show a little humility and come for confession at the posted times (at your parish or another), or call to make an appointment. Don’t be so arrogant to assume that the priest is at your beck and call.
 
Indeed. I actually learned the first version from the EWTN website. The original version I was taught is “Oh my God I am heartily sorry for having offended thee. And I detest all my sins because of thy just punishment. But most of all, because they offend thee my God, who art all good and deserving of all my love. I firmly resolve, with the help of they Grace, to sin no more, and to avoid the near-occasion of sin. Amen.”

Your version actually intrigues me. I wonder what a Priest in my diocese would do if I pulled that prayer on them. They would probably respond with “No, your Act of Contrition.” 😃
Why would you want to set him up like that?

That would be unkind.
Actually, Knight, as long as you have the elements of contrition (sorrow for offending God) and express purpose of amendment, you can pretty much use an act of contrition in your own words, and it would be considered a valid act of contrition. I like the Franciscan version because it covers “those sins that are hidden from my memory,” as well as venial sins.

Brother JR, you made a comment about what a priest does when a penitent expresses suicidal ideation in the confessional. I’ve noticed that it seems that some people tend to use the sacrament of reconciliation as a substitute for short term psychotherapy, at least if you look at some of the responses on these fora, and it’s a little scary. When a seminarian is going through formation, and learning pastoral care, does he actually get any training as to how to handle situations in which a penitent may be seriously psychologically disturbed? Obviously, a priest can’t call the mental health crisis line and tell them about a suicidal penitent, any more than he can call the authorities and tell them about a homicidal one. But I’ve always been curious about what exactly a priest tries to do, at least in the case of a suicidal person. Since a lot of priests work in parishes at least part of their lives, I’d think that they have some psychologic training in basic counseling skills, but realize that that could vary widely. And since spiritual health is so closely intertwined with mental health, it seems that a lot of seriously hurting people approach their priests while trying to unravel some gordian knots of guilt and shame.
There are two areas that we do not have to study in the seminary, psychology and spiritual theology. Those are electives. There is a course in pastoral counseling. Because of the time constraints, you spend a lot of time dealing with marriage in that course. If you choose to take a course in psychology or spiritual theology or even religious psychology, it’s only one course. It’s not enough to scratch the surface. It’s meant to give you an overview.

Some of us, who are interested in pursuing theology as an academic field, will use these courses during the 4-year M.Div program and select an area of specialization, go back to post graduate school and get either another Masters, an STL or even a doctorate in a specific area, such as spiritual theology or pastoral counseling. Those are very specialized areas. I went back for Spiritual Theology. In those days it was called Ascetical and Mystical Theology. But my superior did not want me to become a priest, he wanted me to train priests. So that’s what I’ve done. I’m the guy who gets to do spiritual direction and get people ready for confession on Saturday afternoon.

There are two problems in the confessional.

a) You can’t use the Saturday afternoon confession for spiritual direction. The priest does not have the time to go deeper into your situation. He may not be trained to do spiritual direction and may have to fly by the seat of his pants. It is better to ask him for an appointment for spiritual direction. Most priests do not have degrees in spiritual theology, but they are well read and many have a natural gift for it. It’s like teaching. Some people are natural at it.

b) You can’t use the confessional for psychotherapy. Very few priests are psychologists. There is the issue of time, if it’s Saturday afternoon. There are laws that govern this. The law protects the confidentiality of the confessional. It does not protect the priest who gives out clinical advice without a license. Priests will shy away from clinical issues. They don’t want to hurt the penitent in any way. Even if you get someone like Fr. Benedict G who is a licensed psychologist, if he has a line waiting, he can’t do you justice in four minutes. Don’t get me wrong, I love Benedict. I’ve spoken to him about my own stuff and he’s great. But you need to factor in the human elements: training and time.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Why would you want to set him up like that?

That would be unkind.

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
I wouldn’t. I was just making a joke. I’m terribly sarcastic, so my sarcasm-reflex came out when I read your version of the Act of Contrition. It’s fun to think about how a Priest in my diocese would respond though… 😃
 
Priests are also people. They are not confession machines. Unless you are at risk of dying, there is no reason to expect a priest to drop everything to hear your confession when it is convenient for you. Show a little humility and come for confession at the posted times (at your parish or another), or call to make an appointment. Don’t be so arrogant to assume that the priest is at your beck and call.
It is not arrogance. Sin has devestating effects on people. Even the least sins disappoint God and who wants to disappoint God? Say you went to the appointed confession times on Thursday… and fell into sin on the Friday… and there are no confessions till next Thursday… wait until then to confess? Knowingly remain in sin? No, you get your butt down to Church as fast as you blooming well can.

Priests are confession machines. It’s in their job description! They are here to provide pastoral care for souls and confession is a pretty darn big pastoral issue! How any priest could turn a man away from the confessional for something as silly as it being their “day off” is beyond me especially when they do not know what type of sin the person has committed etc.

Priests are people yes… called by God to minister to His flock. They have a duty and an obligation to hear confessions at any time barring serious obstacles (such as saying Mass, trying to stop someone bleeding from a gun-shot wound etc.).

Painting their house is not an excuse.
 
@ Br. JR: Thanks for that insight into a priest’s education. But generally speaking, if it becomes obvious during a confession that a penitent is seriously disturbed psychologically, does the priest do such things as suggest they see him after confession (as in making an appointment to see him,) or recommend that they seek professional help? Despite the fact that the confessional isn’t the place for counseling, it seems that a priest could use the opportunity to steer the penitent in a direction where (s)he could get more definitive help, either in spiritual direction in an appropriate and comprehensive format, or in a clinical setting. For example, do a lot of them say something like, “you confessed getting drunk five times in the last two weeks, it seems like you might have a problem with alcohol and you need to do something about this in addition to confessing it, here’s where you can go to get help,” or something like that? (I’m now a physical therapist, not a counselor!)
 
It is not arrogance. Sin has devestating effects on people. Even the least sins disappoint God and who wants to disappoint God? Say you went to the appointed confession times on Thursday… and fell into sin on the Friday… and there are no confessions till next Thursday… wait until then to confess? Knowingly remain in sin? No, you get your butt down to Church as fast as you blooming well can.
And in most of the US you can find another church with posted confession times on Friday or Saturday. Or you can call the parish and make an appointment. In the meantime you can work on contrition and reparation for your sin.
Priests are confession machines. It’s in their job description! They are here to provide pastoral care for souls and confession is a pretty darn big pastoral issue! How any priest could turn a man away from the confessional for something as silly as it being their “day off” is beyond me especially when they do not know what type of sin the person has committed etc.
Priests are people yes… called by God to minister to His flock. They have a duty and an obligation to hear confessions at any time barring serious obstacles (such as saying Mass, trying to stop someone bleeding from a gun-shot wound etc.).
Painting their house is not an excuse.
No one said anything about painting their house. But certainly the penitent can have the respect due to the priest to allow them not just Mass times and emergency surgery, but also the time he has set aside for his own prayer and refreshment. Also, the times he has set aside for other parishioners.

Obviously, if you have a mortal sin on your soul, call and let the priest know. But if you are not in a state of mortal sin or in danger of dying, it is perfectly reasonable for the priest to suggest another time for confession.

If you are scrupulous, you should only see one confessor and follow his guidelines as to the frequency of your confessions. If you are working hard to develop your spiritual life, it is good to get in the habit of going to confession regularly anyway. Then you will not find yourself in need of emergency confession on an ongoing basis.
 
I see ATeutonicKnight is from Greensburg, KS Maybe some do not know that town was wiped off the map by a tornado a few years ago. There has to be a lot of pent up emotions and a lot of post traumatic stress floating around. Priests in that area must be under a tremendous amount of pressure helping everyone with physical needs let alone spiritual needs.

If the priest was there when the tornado went through he may have some issues himself and might need counseling for them. A counselor that knows how to help with a disasters aftermath should be there and able to help those who need it, but maybe they have all left by now. I would suggest giving the priest some leeway with criticisms. Also, some priests have so much to do with the priest shortage and a million things to get done for many parishes at the same time they end up killing themselves. It’s not easy being a priest now a days in the best of circumstances.

ATeutonicKnight—I don’t know why you do not drive and need to depend on your parents to get you around but if you drove then you could be more flexible in your routine to go to confession. That might not be possible for you but something you may need to work on—have another way or several ways to get to church. That would take the pressure off of you and you could do an examination of conscience without hurrying.
 
@ Br. JR: Thanks for that insight into a priest’s education. But generally speaking, if it becomes obvious during a confession that a penitent is seriously disturbed psychologically, does the priest do such things as suggest they see him after confession (as in making an appointment to see him,) or recommend that they seek professional help? Despite the fact that the confessional isn’t the place for counseling, it seems that a priest could use the opportunity to steer the penitent in a direction where (s)he could get more definitive help, either in spiritual direction in an appropriate and comprehensive format, or in a clinical setting. For example, do a lot of them say something like, “you confessed getting drunk five times in the last two weeks, it seems like you might have a problem with alcohol and you need to do something about this in addition to confessing it, here’s where you can go to get help,” or something like that? (I’m now a physical therapist, not a counselor!)
Many priests do suggest or ask if you have a spiritual director or a therapist. The priest has to walk a find line here as to how he brings up previous confessions. Remember, once absolved, the confession is over and forgotten. References to previous confessions are easier if you bring them up.

The therapist question is a tricky one, even for spiritual directors. Even though you’re not in the confessional, some people get very upset, leave and don’t come back. You worry abou them. I can see how a confessor or spiritual director may not bring it up until he feels that you are comfortable with him and trust him.

Even in casual conversation, when you suggest to a friend or a loved one that they see a therapist it can cause such anger and indignation that you wish you had never brought it up. It has to be done in a way that you hope will be taken as it is meant, as a help, not as a criticism.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Hmm–good point, Brother JR, I hadn’t considered that aspect of it (i.e., bringing up previous confessions, or even alienating and further upsetting the penitent.) Thanks for that slant on it!
 
tmd60 yes I have had some really bad experiences going to confession as a kid growing up it was bad because in my time you did not go outside of the church you belonged to so week after week you were in the confessional with the same Priest and I really never felt it was a sacrement of Gods love and mercy I feel I have been scared for life and though I go from time to time I am so nervous that I have thrown up at times.I probably need to get some help with this but I am to scared.So yes I know what you mean with not having a good Priest for confesstion.
 
tmd60 yes I have had some really bad experiences going to confession as a kid growing up it was bad because in my time you did not go outside of the church you belonged to so week after week you were in the confessional with the same Priest and I really never felt it was a sacrement of Gods love and mercy I feel I have been scared for life and though I go from time to time I am so nervous that I have thrown up at times.I probably need to get some help with this but I am to scared.So yes I know what you mean with not having a good Priest for confesstion.
I am so sorry you felt this way. I can understand though. So much for Protestants saying Catholics can just go to confession and go out and do the same thing over and over again. No big deal. LOL Maybe if they had to try going to confession they would understand.

I don’t like small, dark places so I am happy they now have face to face confessions. Maybe you would feel more comfortable if you developed a friendship with a priest and made him your spiritual adviser. I don’t think any priest should brow beat anyone coming to confession. That is not what Jesus would do.
 
I confessed a mortal sin once and was told it wasn’t a mortal sin and it was my right to commit it and that he took full responsibility for it if I died and he was wrong. I prayed for him and than when it happened again I reported him to the bishop. I had this happen on more than one occasion and with more than one priest, and its one of the most obvious teachings of the church, its not some hidden secret the particular sin he told me was okay. I also had a priest ask me one time for some explicit details about a sin that I really didn’t see the point of him asking and it just seemed really weird. (explicit sexual details, questions like did you like it?) I mean I could have misinterpreted his reasons for asking certain questions but it just didn’t come off right. Needless to say I avoid certain priests during confession for those reasons.
 
There are a few things going on in this thread that all boil down to one word, “Balance.”

No, a priest is not a confessional machine. Such a perspective is theologically incorrect. While absolving is definitely the proper ministry of the priest and the law says that a priest may not deny absolution to anyone who asks for it and can receive it, there are also rules of prudence.

If the priest is a religious, he has duties to his religious community, which he cannot forsake, on a regular basis, to hear a confession at the drop of a hat. That’s a judgment call that the priest and his superior have to make. How often do you miss out on community life when it becomes too often?

The faithful who live in a parish staffed by religious are bound to respect the religious life. The bishop makes this promise to the religious superior on behalf of the parishioners when he asks the religious to take over the parish. For example, if the religious have community prayers, dinner, recreation, etc at a certain time of day, people in the parish usually know this. It’s not like this is something new. Religious communities follow the same routine every day. You don’t show up at the religious house to ask for confession at those times unless it’s an emergency. If you do, the religious may ask you to return, to sit and wait a while or he may drop what he’s doing and hear your confession. It’s a matter of balance. But you shouldn’t be disappointed or upset if you have to wait or come back.

Most people live in parishes staffed by secular priests who belong to a diocese, ergo: Diocesan Priests. Like every secular man, these men have duty hours and days. They are lawfully entitled to time off from work. This means that they go off duty at a certain time of day and they have a day off each week, a vacation, time for retreat and they also have a personal life outside of the parish. It is unjust to demand that they be available for us at a time that is properly their time, just as it is unjust to demand that anyone give us time that is for them, unless we are in a crisis.

Yes, if you arrive at the parish office after hours, it is reasonable to have to come back during regular office hours. If you have an emergency, such as a sick or loved one who is sick, you have a right to have your priest hear your confession at that time.

A priest may never refuse to hear your confession. He can legitimately ask you to come by at a reasonable time when there is no emergency. The good thing here is that if you are contrite, have asked for forgiveness and made a resolution to go to confession as soon as Father can hear your confession, you’re OK. If you get hit by a runaway train, God is not a ruthless god. The Church tells us that if you are at mass and you need to go to confession, but cannot do so, you may try to make a perfect act of contrition, resolve to go to confession as soon as it is possible and proceed to receive Holy Communion.

As we can see in this regulation, the Church knows and understands that confession is not always possible when we need it and there are times when we have to wait, be it a few hours or a few days. Normally, the most we have to wait may be a day. Father may not be available today, but will be available tomorrow. Unless it’s a priest who covers large areas and does not come to the parish more than once or twice a week, in which case you may have to wait several days, most priests are available at least five days a week.

Sundays is a horrible time to ask for confession. One has to be sensitive to this. I have asked a priest to hear my confession on a Sunday. I wait for him to finish mass and be on his way out. I have grabbed him in the parking lot and asked if he would hear my confession. However, here is where balance enters the picture. If he says that he’s on his way out and can’t stop, I accept that. It’s not his fault that I need to go to confession. I was not in his plans. For all I know, he may be on his way to something important. I have to accept his situation, which means going to confession between two parked cars. It is unreasonable to expect him to go back into the church and into the confessional just for me. I know that priests may not deny me absolution, if I am properly disposed to receive it. At the same time, I must accept that he’s not MY PRIEST. I don’t own him and he’s not there just for me. If a priest is never available, then you have a real problem. If he is available, just not when you want him, the problem may be yours and not his.

This is a part of sin that we must take into account. Sin has consequences. Having to wait for confession is one of them. In all things, we must have balance and allow the priest to have balance too.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
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