Bad Thoughts

[svoboda]

CuriousInIL:

Often, bad thoughts (sometimes impure, sometimes violent) enter my head especially when I am praying or in church etc.

How does one determine if these thoughts are more temptations of the devil that should simply be dismissed as quickly as possible or conscious thoughts conjured by me that are sinful and need to be confessed. They are never there long, but I am having an extremely difficult time deciding if I am conjuring these thoughts in the first instance or not.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Try your hardest not to think of the white bear.

See my point? If you are going to be worried about these thoughts and making an effort to suppress them, it will only have the opposite effect.

Everybody has those types of thoughts sometimes. Sometimes I think things that are completely outrageous and I don’t know where they came from. So what? I think this happens to everyone to some extent. Just let them go.

I think the difference between you and others is that you notice those thoughts and dwell on them.

 

[CuriousInIL]

Ok, I know that it is the rare thread here that stays on topic, but because I am the OP on this one let’s see if we can’t get where I wanted to go.

CuriousInIL:

Often, bad thoughts (sometimes impure, sometimes violent) enter my head especially when I am praying or in church etc.

How does one determine if these thoughts are more temptations of the devil that should simply be dismissed as quickly as possible or conscious thoughts conjured by me that are sinful and need to be confessed. They are never there long, but I am having an extremely difficult time deciding if I am conjuring these thoughts in the first instance or not.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks all for your responses. But, the question is not whether or not I have OCD. The question is not how to dismiss the thoughts. The question is how to determine if the appearance of the thoughts is a deliberate act by me. So, how do I determine that?

 

[Viki59]

CuriousInIL:

The question is how to determine if the appearance of the thoughts is a deliberate act by me. So, how do I determine that?

It seems clear to me that thoughts occur to us without our volition for the most part. They are prompted by sensations or events that remind us of memories or ideas. For example, whenever I smell roses, I think of the rose garden my parents had when I was little.
Sometimes the prompts are very subtle, maybe the way we’re sitting or the way a line of print looks on a page. I’ve tilted my head and had a thought pop into my mind – a neuron bumping into another one?
I’d definitely say you are not responsible for the thoughts that occur to you. But just like temptations, we are responsible for whether we go on to indulge them or turn our minds to something else.
I’m not a neurologist, so this is just my opinion.

 

[ReformedCatholic]

CuriousInIL:

Thanks all for the responses. To try to focus a bit more, my real question is how do I decide if I am willing these thoughts. Generally, i do not believe that I am, but I am worried that I am just fooling myself and that I should take more responsibility.

It does not sound like you are consciously willing these thoughts. However, a lot goes on in our unconscious (or subconscous) minds that sometimes bubbles up into our consciousness. Random thoughts that come into our minds is sometimes referred to as a “flight of ideas.” This can happen during times of contemplation or attempted concentration as our mind’s natural resistance to “being still,” as we are not used to such in a crazy and hectic world.

Certain ideas persist likely because they cause you anxiety and then you attempt to “not think” about the idea. Attempting to not think about something does not tend to work.

Do not think about a white horse. Now what did you think about?

These things tend to be a natural part of the functioning of the human psyche. It sounds like you may have some pent up emotions that would benefit from an outlet. Journaling is often helpful.

To answer your question: it is not likely that the devil is involved, nor is it sinful. It is just a part of being human.

Depending on the severity of your problem, you may wish to consider an attention deficit. A helpful personal survey on adult ADD can be found at www.amenclinic.com

Good luck.

 

[CuriousInIL]

I hear you all and thank you.

The real issue I have is that I would understand if something, say chocolate cake or something, often triggered particular kinds of thoughts. That happens all the time and I understand it well. And I also understand the idea that it is impossible to try to not think of white horses or whatever (I actually learned that with pineapples but it’s the same point).

Here, however, these ideas seemingly randomly show up at different points during the mass or during other prayer. And, seem to do so more when my mind is “still” or deeply in “prayer.” Also, there are so disturbing, that it is stopping me from engaging in prayer sometimes for fear of the thoughts. That is why I wonder if it is just a trick of the evil one.

 

[TOP]

Dear Curious,
I have struggled with prayer and meditation also. I had a problem with mental outburst, cursing… during prayer. I also thought it was the evil one messing with me and still do. But I also believe the Lord is in control, so I asked myself why is he allowing this to happen. After much thought, I realised I was haboring resentment to God about things in my life. Accepting Gods plan, humility and reconciliation through confession almost stopped it cold. I ask Mary to help me in prayer now, feeling a need for an advocate. This has helped me also. This has been my own experiance. The key thing for me was , it was me haboring sin, the devil tried to discourage me, but it worked out to God’s advantage. I hope this helps, God Bless , Tim

 

[MrIrish]

CuriousInIL:

Often, bad thoughts (sometimes impure, sometimes violent) enter my head especially when I am praying or in church etc.

How does one determine if these thoughts are more temptations of the devil that should simply be dismissed as quickly as possible or conscious thoughts conjured by me that are sinful and need to be confessed. They are never there long, but I am having an extremely difficult time deciding if I am conjuring these thoughts in the first instance or not.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

You are displaying classic signs of scrupulosity: doubt and indecision. I can state with total certainty that you are not conjuring these thoughts. Why? Because you use phrases like the thoughts “entered” your mind, and you are not sure if you are conjuring them. Come on, think about this for a second - you would know for a fact if you deliberately had these thoughts, ruminated on them for a while, and made a conscious effort to keep them in your imagination. There would be zero doubt in your mind that you had conjured the thoughts and entertained them in your mind deliberately. Clearly, this is not the cause in your situation.

Have a read through these 10 Commandments for the Scrupulous, particularly commandment 6, which reads as follows:

6. You shall not consider yourself guilty of bad thoughts, desires, or feelings, unless you can honestly swear before the all-truthful God that you remember clearly and certainly consenting to them.

This is a very important commandment. The whole area of impure thoughts and desires causes scrupulous people much anxiety. Unfortunately, scrupulous persons often believe that the very appearance of thoughts or desires in their thoughts or imagination means that they have committed a sin. This is most certainly not the case. In fact, it is humanly impossible for us to have absolute control over our interior faculties. Such thoughts and images are going to happen, whether we like them or not.

Because we simply do not have absolute control over our interior faculties, the emphasis of the commandment is on clear and certain consent. Only a free consent, that is clear and certain, constitutes a sin. You can not accidentally or involuntarily be guilty of sin.

Your next thought may be, “But wait, how do I know if I am doubting or if I am just trying to convince myself that I am doubting?” This in itself is a doubt, and so again, you cannot be guilty of a serious sin in this circumstance. Your mind is playing tricks on you. When unwelcome bad thoughts come to mind, you need to distract yourself and think of something else. Don’t simply try to push the bad thought out of your mind - that is not enough and will probably not work. You need to make a conscious, proactive effort to think of something else.

 

[ComradeAndrei]

MrIrish,

That is an excellent link you posted. It has helped me out quite a bit. Also, I think it would do many of us on this board some good to read over that site, especially the Scrupulous Anonymous newletters. From my limited experience on these boards, folks seem to be pretty scrupulous and quick to assume mortal sin.

 

[MrIrish]

ComradeAndrei:

MrIrish,

That is an excellent link you posted. It has helped me out quite a bit. Also, I think it would do many of us on this board some good to read over that site, especially the Scrupulous Anonymous newletters. From my limited experience on these boards, folks seem to be pretty scrupulous and quick to assume mortal sin.

I could not agree more!