I have never thought of those words as sinful. Crude? Yes. Vulgar? Yes. But sinful??
Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut. Does anyone else agree with Phemie?
PaulfromIowa:
Wow. How far our culture has fallen that we actually have to debate this!
It’s difficult for me to interpret that post in any way that is not rude or condescending.
Skye Ariel:
Same thing as Phemie?
I was taught that the words were wrong based on being vulgar and not the type of language you should get into a habit of speaking.
Very similar here, I have used such words on rare occasions. But generally, I do not use them because I know that some people simply don’t like them and I want those people to feel comfortable around me. However that would make the use (or non-use) of these words a matter of etiquette, like using your salad fork for salad and your dinner fork for dinner. There are people that are not bothered by those types of words, so if it’s
only a matter of etiquette then there would be no problem using those words in those situations.
NeedsMercy:
As someone known to have a potty mouth every so often, I question the whole “bad” word thing too. I never, ever use the Lord’s name in vain but I do throw the f-bomb around sometimes, usually after I do something stupid, or after an accident, etc. It’s meaningless in itself.
Ah, yes. You said that you use “the f-bomb” after you “do something stupid.” That is not an uncommon behavior, in my experience. Some may prefer other “4 letter words” over the “f-bomb” but it is frequently uttered in such instances.
So now many, many different people, under the impression that these words are sinful, have adopted alternate words. For example, I knew a guy who used to exclaim, “fudge!” or “shoot!” when frustrated/angry/etc. in the same manner one might exclaim the well-known 4 letter words.
Cutting to the heart of the matter here—
IF the f-word and s-word, etc. are sinful to use, would “fudge!” or “shoot” or other variants be just as sinful? Are people claiming that it is sinful to exclaim any word at all in frustration/irritation? Or are these 4 letter words somehow different than “fudge!”/“shoot”/etc.?
To come back to the question underlying this thread, if “bad” words are sinful—
why are they sinful? What is the principle at work here?
JM3:
Ironically, the answer given there is exactly what I’m complaining about.
Let’s review…
Steve O’Brien says:
Steve O'Brien:
You’re assuming the truth of what you have to prove. You have to prove that the use of four-letter words is a sin, and you haven’t done so…
JButky’s response:
JButky:
I’m not begging the same question at all. The cathecism and Church does not enumerate every particular sin in a document. There are so many that it is not possible. You are asking for the equivalent, sola-scriptura, protestant style answer, and you won’t accept it if it’s not “written” as a citation somewhere. It just doesn’t work that way.
There is virtue and there is vice, they are opposites and by degree.
The catechism does state:
1849 Sin is an offense against reason, truth, and right conscience; it is failure in genuine love for God and neighbor caused by a perverse attachment to certain goods. It wounds the nature of man and injures human solidarity. It has been defined as "an utterance, a deed, or a desire contrary to the eternal law."121
If you are attached to swearing due to lack of self control it is a vice which is contrary to God’s eternal law.
also the catechism states:
1850 Sin is an offense against God: "Against you, you alone, have I sinned, and done that which is evil in your sight."122 Sin sets itself against God’s love for us and turns our hearts away from it. Like the first sin, it is disobedience, a revolt against God through the will to become "like gods,"123 knowing and determining good and evil. Sin is thus "love of oneself even to contempt of God."124 In this proud self- exaltation, sin is diametrically opposed to the obedience of Jesus, which achieves our salvation.125
Once again, it is arrogance that results in the sin. Lack of humility in prideful fashion and contempt that allows one to use vulgar language. Swearing is merely the manifestation of what is in the heart.
As the catechism describes, attempting to justify this type of BEHAVIOR is a proud, self exaltation. As such it is in opposition to Christ and therefore sinful.
You can’t parse it any other way except by the manner that you have. That which you have presented is ONLY to declare that YOU find nothing wrong with swearing. Unfortunately, that is precisely what the catechism enumerates as the criteria for sin as well as the many other vices from which swearing is a product.
One does not find swearing virtuous by any stretch of reason. We are not called to identify vice and avoid it. We are called to PRACTICE VIRTUE. If you place your focus in the correct direction, it is very clear the vulgarity is a perversion of language and NOT within the practice of virtue.
Joe B
JM3, which part of that do you consider an answer?
He merely asserts that Steve O’Brien has a self-control issue, asserts that he is arrogant, asserts that he is always proud, and asserts that the fact that it is a sin is obvious.
Where I come from, that’s the opposite of an answer. In fact, it’s worse than not answering at all… it’s obfuscating the real question.
And it takes a lot to get me to that place where a word like that comes out. But cuss words are not a part of my every day vocabulary. Plus most places frown on using cuss words or swear words and we’re not allowed to use words like that at my job so it’s just not a part of my vocabulary. If others say small cuss words it doesn’t bother me but a long string of foul obscenities and big long compound cuss words offend me like MF and things like that. One thing I really really really hate to hear is when people put the word holy in front of cuss words. I. hate. that.
