"Bad" words

  • Thread starter Thread starter VeritasLuxMea
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Don’t suppose there’s a clear, definitive answer from an encyclical or bishop or something? Catholicism isn’t exactly a democracy.

I’ve struggled to not swear, and still cuss rather a lot in my mind, a habit i wish i could get rid of somehow. But from the sound of this topic, it’s sounds perfectly permissible. It’d be all too easy for me to flip the bird at someone attacking my faith and tell them to f**k off.
 
There may be something to your answer, but it’s layered under a lot of condescension.

I have struggled with “foul language” for years. I started using the words to prove to peers that I wasn’t a goody-goody in my teens. Then the words were a habit and I said them a lot. That toned down with some effort, especially after I had kids. But when I’m angry, they are the first words I go to.

So yes, it’s a habit, a habit from poor choices. But habits can also mitigate culpability in the case of sinful ones. I grew up with an angry father who raged at us using those words, and around peers who used them a lot (and made fun of you if you didn’t). That’s a lot different than someone who’s grown up learning to be careful with their vocabulary.

In general, I think using words like that as part of everyday speech is lazy, and crude - and disrespectful if it’s done in mixed company. But I doubt that every single utterance is sinful.
Let me suggest a book for you if you really want to try and fix your bad habit, if not for yourself then for Christ.

“30 Days to Taming Your Tongue”, by Deborah Pegues.

“Thought provoking questions to help tackle the habits that trip you up”
“Scripture verses to reinforce what the Bible says about what you say”
“Models for new, positive speech patterns to displace negative ones”
 
Let me suggest a book for you if you really want to try and fix your bad habit, if not for yourself then for Christ.

“30 Days to Taming Your Tongue”, by Deborah Pegues.

“Thought provoking questions to help tackle the habits that trip you up”
“Scripture verses to reinforce what the Bible says about what you say”
“Models for new, positive speech patterns to displace negative ones”
Thank you for the suggestion. I have made a lot of progress, just the occasional slip-up (I’m sure dropping a hammer on a thumb would do it.) I’m still not willing to go out and say that every unfortunate thing that we say is automatically sinful…but yes, they’re unfortunate and should try to be curbed.
 
Hmm, I think that telling someone to “F— off” would be bad, because it indicates encouragement of masturbation, which is not something we should advocate for.
 
Here I’m speaking only of “bad four letter words” like the s-word, the f-word, etc. I’m not talking about using the name of God.

There seems to be a general consensus that it is sinful to use such words. If so, in what sense? What commandment is it breaking and in what sense is it breaking that commandment?

When I see people explain this as a sin, they usually cite certain verses in the Bible about “impure speech” and so on but I don’t think you can make something sinful on the basis of a Bible verse and I don’t see what makes “impure speech” any more sinful than playing in a pile of mud.

As a disclaimer, I know there are a lot of people around here that automatically ascribe the asking of a question with the pushing of a position, but I really couldn’t care less about this either way. Admittedly, these words do not infuriate me as they do some people, but I don’t use them much, either. I just want to understand the concept behind this.
Yeah, I have yet to see a convincing argument that these suck explatives are sinful in and of themselves. In fact, I think it’d be pretty hard to come up with such an argument. Here is a question for people to think about, if I were to put together random letters, as a nonsense word, and just use that express my frustration, used it as a word without any real meaning except as a way of expressing frustration or anger I can’t see how it would be wrong. Similarly, if your using these four letter words without meaning their commonly accepted meanings, but rather just trying to express frustration or anger (or pain) then I can’t see how its a problem in itself. Because they have vulgar meanings attached to them in society you have to be charitable to others and be careful about how or when you use them, but honestly, even if those words were sinful in and of themselves (which doesn’t seem right, if they were sinful so would the phrases “bowel movement” and “marital relations” be immoral, they are just a collection of sounds meaning the exact same things as these four letter words, so if one is sinful so is the other).
 
Hmm, I think that telling someone to “F— off” would be bad, because it indicates encouragement of masturbation, which is not something we should advocate for.
While I’m still not sure that use is ever ok, are they really telling them to masturbate? Or rather are they saying “I am extremely angry and upset with you, go away I don’t want to talk with you, I don’t care what you do or what happens to you just get out of my sight” etc.

You know, just like how the letters bat can be used to either mean a long thin wooden stick or a living nocturnal creature who uses sound instead of sight to navigate. Just because the letters and sounds are the same doesn’t mean the meaning is the same.
 
While I’m still not sure that use is ever ok, are they really telling them to masturbate? Or rather are they saying “I am extremely angry and upset with you, go away I don’t want to talk with you, I don’t care what you do or what happens to you just get out of my sight” etc.

You know, just like how the letters bat can be used to either mean a long thin wooden stick or a living nocturnal creature who uses sound instead of sight to navigate. Just because the letters and sounds are the same doesn’t mean the meaning is the same.
The reason I’m bringing this up is because when I was younger I also used to be in the habit of saying a few expletives, never the f-word, a couple tamer ones and a couple modified ones, and I can assure you that whenever I said those words as an expletive I was not at all either thinking about or meaning their normal meanings in daily use. It was just a way of expressing anger, frustration, or pain. And whenever I heard someone else use expletives, I never listened to them and tried to string together their sentence by giving those expletives the meanings they have in normal speech, instead, I understood them, again, as being expressions of anger frustration and pain. And I think this is an important aspect to consider when trying to figure out whether or not it is immoral.
 
As I understand it, the S word and F word both have anglo saxon roots, and during someone’s invasion of somewhere during some world war, that was really looked down upon. So though the equivalent of the F word is “to copulate”, the F word became bad because of it’s cultural roots. Same as why “poop” is okay to say, but the S word, generally less so.

It’s an inherited cultural distaste. That’s why it certain parts of Europe, those words are said like nothing, because to them, they really are nothing. It’s a cultural taboo that they are cuss words.
That’s a good point, because words in and of themselves are not a sin, especially since most cuss words today started out with a real meaning that was not a cuss word, like the word for a female dog and how it evolved into a cuss word, or the A word for a donkey that’s even written in the Bible but today is used to mean someone’s butt etc. Then there are names that can be used as bad words like the nick name for Richard, plus other cultures have every day words that are not cuss words to us that are cuss words to them, especially slang. So words in and of themselves can’t be a sin to say but it may be offensive to some, and considered rude and vulgar. And you can’t say it’s the thought or intent behind it that makes it a sin because what if you do substitute cuss words with fudge and darn it, those are clean words but have the same thought or meaning as the bad or dirty words. So words are not a sin in and of themselves, but if Jesus was physically visiting your home would you use certain words in front of Him? I bet 99% of the people would not. 😉 So cussing is considered as a vice or bad habit like smoking but I don’t think someone would go to hell for cussing alone. If they were holy in every way but said a cuss word just before getting hit and killed I don’t think that one cuss word would condemn them to hell. I would hope they would call on Jesus, but if a bad word came out I don’t see them going to hell for that.
 
It is one thing to slip an obscenity (be it mild or strong) every once in a while because of particular situation. It is another thing to slip an obscenity 50 times per minute with deliberation.

Now in regards to the OP, if you use the Name’s of God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit as cuss words, you definitely breaking the 2nd commandment, because you are showing irreverence to the sacred names of our Creator, our Savior, and The Messenger.

Now in regards to cuss words, like the 7 words you can’t say on television, to say the least, i think i all depends on context. For instance, I haven’t seen the whole movie, but Saving Private Ryan’s language, as well as violence, are no considered to be offensive or gratuitous because they are simply meant to convey “the horrors of war”. Another arugment for this is that if a moror round landed in front of you and exploded, you wouldn’t say Golly.

However, if you are using obscenity out of anger, or during a joke, to sound cool, intimidating, to wish harm to someone, etc. then that’s a no no.
 
I would also like to add that their are bible verses that deal with this topic.
Colossians 3: 5-10
5 Put to death, therefore, whatever in you is earthly: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed (which is idolatry). 6 On account of these the wrath of God is coming on those who are disobedient.** 7 These are the ways you also once followed, when you were living that life.[c] 8 But now you must get rid of all such things—anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive[d] language from your mouth. 9 Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have stripped off the old self with its practices 10 and have clothed yourselves with the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge according to the image of its creator.**
Ephesians 5: 3-20
3 But fornication and impurity of any kind, or greed, must not even be mentioned among you, as is proper among saints. 4 Entirely out of place is obscene, silly, and vulgar talk; but instead, let there be thanksgiving. 5 Be sure of this, that no fornicator or impure person, or one who is greedy (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be associated with them. 8 For once you were darkness, but now in the Lord you are light. Live as children of light— 9 for the fruit of the light is found in all that is good and right and true. 10 Try to find out what is pleasing to the Lord. 11 Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to mention what such people do secretly; 13 but everything exposed by the light becomes visible, 14 for everything that becomes visible is light. Therefore it says,
“Sleeper, awake!
Rise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you.”
15 Be careful then how you live, not as unwise people but as wise, 16 making the most of the time, because the days are evil. 17 So do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. 18 Do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery; but be filled with the Spirit, 19 as you sing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs among yourselves, singing and making melody to the Lord in your hearts, 20 giving thanks to God the Father at all times and for everything in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition
 
I grew up thinking it was sinful partly because my Catholic school teachers always seemed to lump it under the Second Commandment and partly because my mom would wash my mouth out with soap if she ever heard me say one. 😛

Thus I never developed the habit and so, even if I hit my hand with a hammer – which happens pretty much everytime I use a hammer 🙂 – those just aren’t the words that are on the tip of my tongue. You’re looking at the guy who, in his high school English class, switched in the word “donkey” for that other word when reading Shakespeare in front of the class. 😛

That said, when you think about it from a linguistic perspective, words pretty much only have meaning in so far as we ascribe meaning to them. And different languages have different “bad words.” I could say a cuss word in another language and it wouldn’t feel the same as saying one of the “bad” words in English.

In light of that, it’s hard for me to call such speech intrinsically sinful, though – of course – those words can be used in vulgar and/or angry ways which would be sinful by virtue of the vulgarity and/or anger.

If CAF has to replace the words with asterisks, I find it best to avoid using them. 😃
 
I’m pretty sure that all of Jesus’ nail strikes with a hammer were perfect. 😉

Four letter words do not offend me and I’ve always been confused as to whey they are such a big deal to so many people. I see no intricate evil in words but more in thought. There isn’t one of these “bad words” that you couldn’t say the same thing using other words that would be “acceptable”. So it isn’t the substance that offends but just particular ways of saying them.

Having said that, I avoid them because they offend others but I often think them in my mind.
I try to avoid them (and undo bad habits from college) because I find them to be classless, and not something I could picture Jesus using. Since we are to emulate Christ in all things, it seems obvious that this includes using cuss words of vulgarities. We don’t always need a biblical passage to know when we are imiteting Christ.
 
I try to avoid them (and undo bad habits from college) because I find them to be classless, and not something I could picture Jesus using. Since we are to emulate Christ in all things, it seems obvious that this includes using cuss words of vulgarities. We don’t always need a biblical passage to know when we are imiteting Christ.
Sometimes we do need a reference so that we do not second guess any presumptions that we have regarding something; we need that assurance. Everybody makes mistakes and do things they didn’t expect they would do. For instance, I dropped the F bomb on my mom in the car on the way home from Church one time because I didn’t like Father’s use of a mild obscenity in his homily. But, afterwards I’ve figuratively beaten myself up and said, “Man, I cannot believe I just said that!!” Its funny, because you sometimes end up feeling worse than before.
 
Back when I went to school with mostly non-denominational protestants, I used to get in trouble for saying “rats”. We were taught that tossing any interjection into a sentence was sinful, apart from maybe “oh”, “wow”, and placeholders like “um”. The same held true of adjectives with negative (or no) meaning. Kids would regularly get in trouble for using the words “stupid”, “dumb”, “hate”, or “goodness”, among other things. Other parents would ridicule mine for using the occasional “shoot”. I rebelled a bit in third grade and began saying “what the mad cow disease are you talking about” at every opportunity, as mad cow disease was the most random thing I could think of. It never caught on, though. :o

So yeah, when I stepped outside that realm (and particularly when I started using the internet), I was appalled at the sorts of words that were bandied about. Nowadays, I don’t really mind it, provided it doesn’t interfere with basic sentence structure and isn’t used to insult individuals or groups of people. Quite honestly, I rather like being able to use the word cr*ppy to describe situations. I don’t do it terribly frequently, so I think it’s a fairly good way of making the extremeness of my opinion clear. I’ve occasionally used the word b—s—, although the instances could be counted on my fingers. I only use it for cases of extremely strong feeling that something or other is a harmful falsehood. Or once when I was playing a card game involving bluffing. Once.

I’ve even come to appreciate the much harder vulgarities that I would never personally use. They allow us to make it clear that the anger, frustration, and pain we are feeling are extreme. I believe that part of the reason that my school banned all replacement expletives is that it was banning negative feelings, attempting to require us to be happy. When you can’t say that you “hate” something, and are required to say that you “strongly dislike” it, it comes off as an attempt to invalidate your feelings and experiences. When circumstances are making us extremely unhappy, I think it’s acceptable to use words to express that emotion. I also think that it can be acceptable to use vulgarities as verbal shorthand for those feelings.

I would be interested in seeing any document that says otherwise- particularly one that explains how we would distinguish between truly “bad” words, such as the two censored ones above, and the harmless ones that the CAF censor does not block.

I do think that we should only use our words for constructive purposes. While using a vulgar word to convey extreme emotional pain could be constructive, cussing someone out wouldn’t be. I’ve always been pretty sure that using such words to attack or insult people is a sin (Shakespeare notwithstanding). I also do get annoyed when people use such words to convey something other than extreme emotion, and I do make an effort not to use any sort of vulgarity (including things that even I consider tame) around people who may be offended, since I want people to be comfortable around me. But even so, I’ve come to think that colorful metaphors have their uses.
 
Back when I went to school with mostly non-denominational protestants, I used to get in trouble for saying “rats”. We were taught that tossing any interjection into a sentence was sinful, apart from maybe “oh”, “wow”, and placeholders like “um”. The same held true of adjectives with negative (or no) meaning. Kids would regularly get in trouble for using the words “stupid”, “dumb”, “hate”, or “goodness”, among other things. Other parents would ridicule mine for using the occasional “shoot”. I rebelled a bit in third grade and began saying “what the mad cow disease are you talking about” at every opportunity, as mad cow disease was the most random thing I could think of. It never caught on, though. :o

So yeah, when I stepped outside that realm (and particularly when I started using the internet), I was appalled at the sorts of words that were bandied about. Nowadays, I don’t really mind it, provided it doesn’t interfere with basic sentence structure and isn’t used to insult individuals or groups of people. Quite honestly, I rather like being able to use the word cr*ppy to describe situations. I don’t do it terribly frequently, so I think it’s a fairly good way of making the extremeness of my opinion clear. I’ve occasionally used the word b—s—, although the instances could be counted on my fingers. I only use it for cases of extremely strong feeling that something or other is a harmful falsehood. Or once when I was playing a card game involving bluffing. Once.

I’ve even come to appreciate the much harder vulgarities that I would never personally use. They allow us to make it clear that the anger, frustration, and pain we are feeling are extreme. I believe that part of the reason that my school banned all replacement expletives is that it was banning negative feelings, attempting to require us to be happy. When you can’t say that you “hate” something, and are required to say that you “strongly dislike” it, it comes off as an attempt to invalidate your feelings and experiences. When circumstances are making us extremely unhappy, I think it’s acceptable to use words to express that emotion. I also think that it can be acceptable to use vulgarities as verbal shorthand for those feelings.

I would be interested in seeing any document that says otherwise- particularly one that explains how we would distinguish between truly “bad” words, such as the two censored ones above, and the harmless ones that the CAF censor does not block.

I do think that we should only use our words for constructive purposes. While using a vulgar word to convey extreme emotional pain could be constructive, cussing someone out wouldn’t be. I’ve always been pretty sure that using such words to attack or insult people is a sin (Shakespeare notwithstanding). I also do get annoyed when people use such words to convey something other than extreme emotion, and I do make an effort not to use any sort of vulgarity (including things that even I consider tame) around people who may be offended, since I want people to be comfortable around me. But even so, I’ve come to think that colorful metaphors have their uses.
👍

That pretty much sums up my thinking on the matter as well. Although I don’t necessarily hate it when such words are used for non-extreme emotion, I definitely think they’ve lost their purpose their and so aren’t really appropriate.
 
I used to attend a book discussion group at a different parish, and one of the priests led the group. He often used the “s” word in conversations. I was shocked and didn’t return to the book discussion group.
 
Back when I went to school with mostly non-denominational protestants, I used to get in trouble for saying “rats”. We were taught that tossing any interjection into a sentence was sinful, apart from maybe “oh”, “wow”, and placeholders like “um”. The same held true of adjectives with negative (or no) meaning. Kids would regularly get in trouble for using the words “stupid”, “dumb”, “hate”, or “goodness”, among other things. Other parents would ridicule mine for using the occasional “shoot”. I rebelled a bit in third grade and began saying “what the mad cow disease are you talking about” at every opportunity, as mad cow disease was the most random thing I could think of. It never caught on, though. :o

So yeah, when I stepped outside that realm (and particularly when I started using the internet), I was appalled at the sorts of words that were bandied about. Nowadays, I don’t really mind it, provided it doesn’t interfere with basic sentence structure and isn’t used to insult individuals or groups of people. Quite honestly, I rather like being able to use the word cr*ppy to describe situations. I don’t do it terribly frequently, so I think it’s a fairly good way of making the extremeness of my opinion clear. I’ve occasionally used the word b—s—, although the instances could be counted on my fingers. I only use it for cases of extremely strong feeling that something or other is a harmful falsehood. Or once when I was playing a card game involving bluffing. Once.

I’ve even come to appreciate the much harder vulgarities that I would never personally use. They allow us to make it clear that the anger, frustration, and pain we are feeling are extreme. I believe that part of the reason that my school banned all replacement expletives is that it was banning negative feelings, attempting to require us to be happy. When you can’t say that you “hate” something, and are required to say that you “strongly dislike” it, it comes off as an attempt to invalidate your feelings and experiences. When circumstances are making us extremely unhappy, I think it’s acceptable to use words to express that emotion. I also think that it can be acceptable to use vulgarities as verbal shorthand for those feelings.

I would be interested in seeing any document that says otherwise- particularly one that explains how we would distinguish between truly “bad” words, such as the two censored ones above, and the harmless ones that the CAF censor does not block.

I do think that we should only use our words for constructive purposes. While using a vulgar word to convey extreme emotional pain could be constructive, cussing someone out wouldn’t be. I’ve always been pretty sure that using such words to attack or insult people is a sin (Shakespeare notwithstanding). I also do get annoyed when people use such words to convey something other than extreme emotion, and I do make an effort not to use any sort of vulgarity (including things that even I consider tame) around people who may be offended, since I want people to be comfortable around me. But even so, I’ve come to think that colorful metaphors have their uses.
Very well said. Whenever a person uses an expletive because of frustration, anger, pain, shock etc, they are not promoting the use of the expletive, or the so called coarsening of our culture. They are merrily expressing the seriousness of their pain. Even Michael Voris, the famous Catholic Apologist, used vulgarities (mainly Hll and Dmn), to express his anger for the things that are going wrong in the church or to prove a point. Though, I have to admit, I still have trouble of letting the profanity go though one ear and out the other in this instance. In other words, it still makes me feel uncomfortable and still makes it harder for me to overlook it. Its even worse when people use it gratuitously.
 
I used to attend a book discussion group at a different parish, and one of the priests led the group. He often used the “s” word in conversations. I was shocked and didn’t return to the book discussion group.
I too when was shocked when I heard a sister of St. Joseph used that same word one time while I was out with our Campus Ministry group straightening out the sisters’ garden.
 
I used to attend a book discussion group at a different parish, and one of the priests led the group. He often used the “s” word in conversations. I was shocked and didn’t return to the book discussion group.
I was at a Sunday Mas in Carmichael CA. in 1998.

The regular pastor was out for the weekend so he offered an administrative priest from the diocese to come give the homily. I don’t know if he was drunk or what, but he stood up and cussed us out big time.:eek:
 
So you are stating that on instinct the first thing you do is cuss in this situation. Then the question goes back to your character.

Let’s say that another person who never cusses or swears hits themselves with the hammer and says “ouch” sucks in his breath and then giggles at himself. And then life goes on.

You say there is no time to cogitate. That may be true so when there is no time to consider your relationship to God it goes back to habit.
No, I am NOT saying that one would use a “bad” word out of instinct. An “instinct” is a behavior that is inherent in all members of a species; ergo, humans have no instincts. It may be a habit that one could possibly break with practice and prayer. As far as my character goes, I’ve got bigger problems than tossing the f-bomb around sometimes! 😃
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top