Bahá'u'lláh

[arthra]

The Bible is really part of the spiritual heritage of mankind and not the exclusive property of one group in my opinion…

There is also a very important point that I mentioned earlier and may have been forgotten and that is we Baha’is believe the true Gospel has been sent down…that is that the traditional Gospels contain the teachings of Jesus.

Baha’u’llah in the Kitab-i-Iqan:

*We have also heard a number of the foolish of the earth assert that the genuine text of the heavenly Gospel doth not exist amongst the Christians, that it hath ascended unto heaven. How grievously they have erred! How oblivious of the fact that such a statement imputeth the gravest injustice and tyranny to a gracious and loving Providence! How could God, when once the Day-star of the beauty of Jesus had disappeared from the sight of His people, and ascended unto the fourth heaven, cause His holy Book, His most great testimony amongst His creatures, to disappear also? *

 

[BHTech]

The same Devinity whose authority Christ had to pur forward the New Testment. Baha’u’llah had the same authority.

And so did Mohammed and Joseph Smith and X, Y, and Z. Utter contradictions that boggle the mind. That is the point. All of them claimed to have been given authorithy by God!!! Effective today I am starting the Zambarian religion of cucumbers and I declare myself the new successor of Baha’u’llah. I bring a new revelation (from God); follow me and I will show you all things. I will set up shop in Israel and write a new book. Just give me a few years. Any converts?

If yuo do not agree, even when valid responses have been presented, it just makes it all the more easier to understand why the Jews still disagree with Christ.

Jews did not accept Christ for a well known reason friend and the Bible predicts in time to come they will accept him.

Look, take guidance from the Teacher! The Teacher for you is Christ! … read him with an open mind. Read our Scripture with an open mind too! Keep your ways free, if there is truth it will prosper (as it is prospering!).

I attend mass every day and I pray constantly and I take him at his word and he guides me to be eware of false people like Baha’u’llah, and the hundreds who have claimed to be him, represent him, speak like him, etc. Look your man is no different from Joseph Smith in my opinion.

It is Holy to those Christians who are now Baha’is.

Obviously friend, because they have been duped into heretical beliefs. How many Muslim converts do you have? How many Mormom converts or how many converts from the multitude of cults out there do you Bahais now have? I would not surprise me if the vast majority come from Christianity due to weaken faith or little or no faith and very small percentages come from other religions.

You disrespect me only to speak the truth?

I don’t disrespect you. I do not know you nor do you know me. I disagree with you strongly, and you view this disagreement as disrespect. I speak the truth.

We have not thrown away the previous Books. We Baha’is are encouraged to read them.

Of course you have friend! Otherwise why is there a Koran (and Hadidth) or a book or Mormon or your own Holy Book(s) ALL SAYING DIFFERENT THINGS! Man wake up! You came out of Islam which in of itself is a heresy of Catholicism. Why then do you deny that Jesus is God, the resurrection, etc. The Bible verse below comes to mind

2 Tim 4:3
For the time will come when they [men] will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,

Blessings

BHTech

 

[kashef_0909]

In the first place … I am here to discuss about the Baha’i Faith with adherents of the Roman Catholic Religion. So I prefer that you do not tactfully try to derail the discussion by your ‘broad lettered’ repeatations (we can all read even if it is written in normal texts actually).

The mind gets boggled when the truth is infront, but it does not want to accept it. Till now, we have found no contradiction between the Baha’i Teachings and the Christian Scripture.

You want to declare yourself God? Write a Book and say that it is written by The Supreme and Mighty Pen Of God? … And then look or Adherents? … I say you try it. Go ahead… and we Baha’is will ask logical and peaceful questions, and would listen to what you have to say with patience. You will be tried, and you will need to validify yourself through good points. Not fanaticism … because we Baha’is are not computarized.

Jews did not accept Christ for ‘What Reason?’, please explain this to us. If you want, start a new thread on this, I promise I will get involved fully and bring out valid points infront of your eyes.

Jesus Christ have always spoken in parables. The literal meaning was not His practice. However, there is a Prophecy, that when the Glory Of God is made manifest, The Spirit of Christ will no longer speak in parables.

Difference between Joseph Smith and Baha’u’llah have been mae clear already earlier in this discussion. And as usual, you pretend that no such answer was provided.

Baha’is are not converts, we are the followers of One God. The fulfillment of all his Revealations. Baha’is come from all Religious backgrounds … we are such a united group, that will only seem fairy tale to you in here. So I will not go into it. We will stay in topic.

By mispelling the name of Baha’u’llah, by calling our Religion (which is peaceful, independent, with Adherents all over, followed around the world, and with presence in UN) cult, and us heretic, you are showing grave disrespect. The gravest, is the intentional misspelling of our Founder. This is not a civilised behaviour.

No Book preaches different things. In their respective discussion, I can also speak on it. However, preferably not in here, as this is between Baha’is and Christians specifically. The misleading information by the priests and scribes (read Matthew 23 and 24) … contribute to abstract imaginations and creat misunderstandings.

The verse you put is perfect for this thread. The Bab, Baha’u’llah (like Jesus Christ) were to Man from God. The Priest and Scribes are man made explanators (educators) … who have always mislead. Baha’is do not have priests or clergy … we are all brothers and as equals. We have elected Governing Bodies, which is very democratic. And it is authorized by the Founder.

Kashef.

 

[BHTech]

So I prefer that you do not tactfully try to derail the discussion by your ‘broad lettered’ repeatations (we can all read even if it is written in normal texts actually).

It’s for a purpose and shall remain that way, if I so choose.

Till now, we have found no contradiction between the Baha’i Teachings and the Christian Scripture.

If you have found no contradictions then you would be Christian friend and not Bahai. We came first, there is a reason we are in the year 2007AD and not 168 Bahai! You deny that Jesus is God, you deny the Trinity, you deny he left a church, he authorized his disciples to baptize in his name and the list goes on.

You want to declare yourself God? Write a Book and say that it is written by The Supreme and Mighty Pen Of God? … And then look or Adherents? …

Don’t need too. You Bahai’s, Mormons, Mohammedians have done it already. The point is many shall come in his name claiming to be him. Your books are proof positive.

Jews did not accept Christ for ‘What Reason?’, please explain this to us.

1. They were looking for a political messiah to lead them out of bondage from the Romans.
2. The new Christians converts from Judaism made a useful scape goat to leverage against the Romans. They could not do it themselves.
   3)It was in the interest of the Scribes, Sadducees and Pharisees to control their people as opposed to this man from Galilee claiming he was God.
3. They were blinded by their own pride. By the way they are still looking for the messiah and for sure as hell they don’t think its Bhaullah.

However, there is a Prophecy, that when the Glory Of God is made manifest, The Spirit of Christ will no longer speak in parables.

What’s your point? There is no Spirit of Christ in the Bible!

Difference between Joseph Smith and Baha’u’llah have been mae clear already earlier in this discussion. And as usual, you pretend that no such answer was provided.

NO YOU HAVE NOT MADE IT CLEAR! He [Joseph Smith] claimed to have a revelation from God that is CONTRADICTORY to your Bhaullahs revelation around the same time. Jump hi or jump lo, you cannot deny that! Mormons say one thing, you say another. Only one can be right or NEITHER OF YOU ARE RIGHT!

Baha’is are not converts, we are the followers of One God.

If you are not converts then why was my friend Christian before he converted to Bahai? You yourself said you have Christian converts. Tsk, tsk!

 

[BHTech]

The gravest, is the intentional misspelling of our Founder. This is not a civilised behaviour.

Friend, you blasphemy my Lord and my God, by your equating your founder beliefs and teaching to his. You don’t hear me whining!

No Book preaches different things.

False! Islam explicitly denies that Jesus Christ is God and there is no Trinity. It teaches that Jesus did not really die, but only appeared so (Docesistism). Then there is the story of Cain and Abel, Noah and the flood, Abraham and Moses all different from the Bible. The list is long. You want more examples:

The story of Mary (the mother of Jesus)

1. The Quran states that her brother was Aaron (Surah 19:28), while the Bible says that Aaron lived 1300 years before Mary (Numbers 26:59).
2. That she gave birth to Jesus under a palm tree (Surah 19:13),while the Bible says it was in a stable (Luke 2:7).
3. That Jesus spoke and made miracles at the time he was a baby (Surah 19:24-26). The Bible has no record of that.
4. That Zacharias could not speak for three days (Surah 19:10), while the Bible says he could not speak until the child was born (or for about 9 months) Luke 1:20.

The Bab, Baha’u’llah (like Jesus Christ) were to Man from God. The Priest and Scribes are man made explanators (educators) … who have always mislead. Baha’is do not have priests or clergy … we are all brothers and as equals.

By your logic the Early church fathers, Bishops and priests are wrong for they read and interpreted the Bible wrongly and so has the Catholic Church throughout the ages (Mormons say the same). Your truth now comes out! The elected governing bahai body does not mislead! You and your group are PERFECT and without sin! Well the verse you refer too comes from the apostle St. Paul writing to Timothy, who encountered the risen Christ on his way to Damascas. It was the Catholic church who put together the Pauline epistles that you so twist to your own words. I gave your St. Ignatius (disciple of John) writings you have no answer for it several posts ago! None! I could give you more but it will be like water off a ducks back! By the way let the world see that you have evaded many of my questions. You have distorted the scripture to suit your own ears! You are right the verse does apply to you.

Question for you: Do you accept the Gospels of Peter, Judas, Mary Magdeline, Thomas and the remaining 46 other gospels as coming from God?

Blessings

BHTech

 

[kashef_0909]

Because we Baha’is are guided by The Teacher, that is why we are Baha’is.

Anything written in the Holy Bible is true.

HEAR ALL: VERILY, VERILY, VERILY CHRIST JESUS IS GOD. VERILY, VERILY, VERILY BAHA’U’LLAH IS THE SAME GOD IN FLESH FOR THIS AGE.

We do not Deny the Trinity (Look at the following Link):
reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/saq-27.html

The Church that He Left was Faith on Him. A faith as strong as the Rock (Peter). The churches (denominations) are not the Church (which is his Revealation) … actually this is also the correct translation. Anyone from the Orient knowing the languages will knew clearly.

I have discussed about Baptism in here. We do not Deny that He choose Baptism. Please refer to the comment on Baptism by me on this thread.

The Bab has not come in His Name. The Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of God. The very term ‘Christ’ have a special meaning, it means ‘The Annointed One’, a decendant of David (anyone who is the decendant of David used to be annointed on the forehead in ancient Jewish tradition … however, this tradition weakened as the Jews were persecuted repeatedly… its discussed about the Jew and the ‘Second Promise of Christ’ in the Bahai Discussions/Apologetics thread. The Bab was the fulfillment of His Promise, the Spirit of God in Him … Verily He was God.

All the criterias you have given on why the Jews did not accept Christ, are fine… but not exactly. The answers can be found more explicitly here:

bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled/if-you.htm

The Prophecies of the Torah was SIMPLY NO FULFILLED by Christ Jesus (according to the Rabbis). Have a look… God gave you eyes, use them.

Joseph Smith claimed that he had a vision. Joseph Smith creat a new Denomication in Christianity. His Church is known by Christs name. Ours are not known by Christs name. And actually, even his visions do not contradict us …

Read This: bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled/mormon.htm

Convert means change. We have discussed how the Religion and sayings of God do not change, but are fulfilled. Your friend have fulfilled the Laws of all the Revealations of God. He is my brother, my prayers, from the very soul of my heart are with him. May he spread the Light Of Baha.

… About Islam… you have many misconceptions (just like come of the Adherents of the Islamic Faith themselves). I will not comment on them. I am here to discuss The Baha’i Faith, not any other faith. Still … about the Surih’s … actually there are two names in the Arabic … Isa and Mas’ih. Mas’ih, his Title, His Spirit, is said to have been taken in heaven by God … while the body remained on the Cross. You are correct that He died on the Cross. They are correct that the Jews could kill his flesh…but His Spirit Prevailed.

Jesus is said to be the Son Of David too … these are symbolical statments.

Could be a palm tree around the stable … come on.

The miracle of the star…the magee came … I bet not every child gets that on Birth . Baha’u’llah did… that is Baha’i History (refer to the Dawn Breakers, Baha’i History).

… many many many more matters dear BHTech. You here are talking with an Oriental … I know those things. But… but but but… not here to discuss it. Baha’i Faith here . I am not to educate you of Koran. Just informing of Baha’i Faith.

By Jesus’s writings… Only He is the Teacher. … none else… and He have used very strong words against priests etc.

I will talk only about Bible and the Holy Books… and those who have written it. The Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John … are the Gospels of Christianity.

 

[arthra]

Coming up is the anniversary of the Birth of Baha’u’llah on the Gregorian calendar it is November 11-12 and is observed between sunset on the 11th and sunset on the 12th… Baha’u’llah was born in Teheran, Persia (Iran).

Synchronous with this has been the Leonid meteor shower which had particularly notable showings around the anniversary of the birth of Baha’u’llah and in 1833:

“The night of November 12-13, 1833, not only marks the discovery of the Leonid meteor shower, but it marks the actual birth of meteor astronomy. During the hours following sunset on November 12, some astronomers noted an unusual number of meteors in the sky, but it was the early morning hours of the 13th that left the greatest impression on the people of eastern North America. During the 4 hours which preceded dawn, the skies were lit up by meteors.”

This Great Star Fall led many to believe the time was near where Jesus would return and fulfilled for many the Bible prophecy:

bibleprophecytruth.com/JesusChrist/shootingstars.asp

I mentioned this earlier but the birth name of Baha’u’llah was Mirza Husayn Ali and His father’s naem was MIrza Buzurg a noble in the Qajar court.

The family of Baha’u’llah actually came from the province of Nur (Light) near the Caspian sea and around the Mazandaran area.

• Art:thumbsup:

 

[Mickey]

Coming up is the anniversary of the Birth of Baha’u’llah on the Gregorian calendar it is November 11-12 and is observed between sunset on the 11th and sunset on the 12th… Baha’u’llah was born in Teheran, Persia (Iran).

Synchronous with this has been the Leonid meteor shower which had particularly notable showings around the anniversary of the birth of Baha’u’llah and in 1833:

“The night of November 12-13, 1833, not only marks the discovery of the Leonid meteor shower, but it marks the actual birth of meteor astronomy. During the hours following sunset on November 12, some astronomers noted an unusual number of meteors in the sky, but it was the early morning hours of the 13th that left the greatest impression on the people of eastern North America. During the 4 hours which preceded dawn, the skies were lit up by meteors.”

:whacky:

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings.
"Bruce:

The primary difference here is that you rush to condemn us at every excuse! (Whatever happened to “Judge not?!”)

We don’t stoop to such actions, which in fact our scripture specifically forbid.

Bahais are incapable of sinning?

Kindly show me where I said any such thing!

I explicitly said:

1. 
   *]The Baha’i scriptures explicitly forbid attacking others aggressively and such divisive things as put-downs, and
   *]I try to avoid such actions.
   This in no way implies we Baha’is are perfect or incapable of sinning, as I would have thought was clear! We’re as fallible as anyone else, though I do hope we’re sincere in our good intentions.
   
   
   BHTech:
   

   I wish to establish … that Christianity and Bahai are simply incompatible and contradict each other.

   Only in your opinion (which you are quite welcome to).
   
   Millions of people have no trouble whatever seeing how they agree.
   
   Peace,
   
   Bruce

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings redux!

I did not say older was better, but merely pointed out that Christianity has had 2000 years to ponder on the mysteries of Jesus, the Bible and his church.

Quite so!

Perhaps you didn’t explicitly state that, but your reply asking me why I’m not Hindu certainly implied this!

And as to the 2,000 years Christians have had to ponder, what a pity this has led mainly to utter fragmentation into over 25,000 different subfroups and still no consensus!

Peace,

Bruce

 

[BruceDLimber]

And since Kashef mentioned it but didn’t stress it, I’ll reemphasize that First John 4:2 SPECIFICALLY PROVES that Baha’u’llah (Founder of the Baha’i Faith) is legitimate and of God!

He clearly passes this crucial test.

Q. E. D.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[BruceDLimber]

The name of the Book of the Jews is ‘The Holy Torah’.

Technically, Kashef, the corpus of Jewish scriptures is the Tanach (which is actually an acronym). The Christian Old Testament is equivalent to this.

The Torah is only the first part of it.

Regards,

Bruce

 

[BruceDLimber]

BTW, BHTech, the Baha’is worldwide have brought literally MILLIONS of nonbeleivers to the recognition and love of Christ and the Bible!

No one can become a Baha’i without also recognizing Jesus Christ.

Not your particular variety of it, perhaps, but the point definitely holds!

Best,

Bruce

 

[NoWings]

And as to the 2,000 years Christians have had to ponder, what a pity this has led mainly to utter fragmentation into over 25,000 different subfroups and still no consensus!

Well, you guys only have 5 or so different sets, but they’ve had a good 1800 years of time before you, so I’m sure you’ll catch up.

 

[kashef_0909]

Well, you guys only have 5 or so different sets, but they’ve had a good 1800 years of time before you, so I’m sure you’ll catch up.

We do not have any sect. Let me be clear in it.

However, I understand where you are trying at it. But, the Baha’is are legally only one unified body. There was also a court case in the United States of America over this (United States Patent Quarterly, Volume 150, pp. 346-356), which was won by the Baha’s under the Universal House of Justice (only the Baha’is under the Universal House of Justice therefore can call themselves Baha’is, not only in the USA or Canada, but this also bore same result in the rest of the world, where all the cases were easily in favour of the Baha’is, due to our clear will and testament). This is because of the will left by Baha’u’llah clearly directing towards Abdul Baha. And the Will of Abdul Baha clearly for Shoghi Effendi. As Shoghi Effendi did not have any child, and according to the Covenant of Baha’u’llah, the Guardianship can only go to the first born of Shoghi Effendi (the Guardian chosen by Abdul Baha), therefore, the Universal House of Justice is not the Unique and Supreme Governing Body of the Baha’is of the entire world. This is a democratically elected Body, which 9 members from all races/countries/regions … regardless (Blacks, Whites, Orientals etc).

The Baha’i faith contains WRITTEN WILL by a Manifestation of God for the first time. This also fulfills another prophecy, of a covenant like a strong stone, on which anything that falls only is crashed and destroyed. The Covenant of God is situated on the Mountain of God ‘Mount Carmel’, and He speaks from there and does Justice. His throne is exalted …

Due to these very accurite and legally perfect situation. There needs be no confusion to the sane of the reality of Baha’i Faith. We have no sect, and there can be no schism in the Baha’i Faith. Its unique?..YES … its unbelievable? … NO … someone who have read (specially the Torah), will find lots of links…

 

[BruceDLimber]

Hi!

Well, you guys only have 5 or so different sets sic], but they’ve had a good 1800 years of time before you, so I’m sure you’ll catch up.

In fact, we are undivided and one faith world wide.

While there have been a few truly tragic attempts to split us, none of these “sects” have lasted longer than a single lifetime, and most are extinct already!

And indeed, the Baha’i scriptures promise that the Baha’i Covenat (which is laid out in them) will preserve our oneness!

Best regards,

Bruce

 

[BruceDLimber]

… therefore, the Universal House of Justice is not the Unique and Supreme Governing Body of the Baha’is of the entire world.

Kashef, please check and edit this post: you appear to have an unintended “not” in it (see above) that accidentally reverses the meaning!

Thanks,

Bruce

 

[kashef_0909]

therefore, the Universal House of Justice is not the Unique and Supreme Governing Body of the Baha’is of the entire world.

I guess after I relogged in…i cant see my ‘edit’ button for that reason …anyways…I will make the correction manually then:

[CORRECTION, spelling mistake] therefore, the Universal House of Justice is THE Unique and Supreme Governing Body of the Baha’is of the Entire World [/CORRECTION]

 

[NoWings]

We do not have any sect. Let me be clear in it.

However, I understand where you are trying at it. But, the Baha’is are legally only one unified body. There was also a court case in the United States of America over this (United States Patent Quarterly, Volume 150, pp. 346-356), which was won by the Baha’s under the Universal House of Justice (only the Baha’is under the Universal House of Justice therefore can call themselves Baha’is, not only in the USA or Canada, but this also bore same result in the rest of the world, where all the cases were easily in favour of the Baha’is, due to our clear will and testament). This is because of the will left by Baha’u’llah clearly directing towards Abdul Baha. And the Will of Abdul Baha clearly for Shoghi Effendi. As Shoghi Effendi did not have any child, and according to the Covenant of Baha’u’llah, the Guardianship can only go to the first born of Shoghi Effendi (the Guardian chosen by Abdul Baha), therefore, the Universal House of Justice is not the Unique and Supreme Governing Body of the Baha’is of the entire world. This is a democratically elected Body, which 9 members from all races/countries/regions … regardless (Blacks, Whites, Orientals etc).

The Universal House of Justice was never meant to be the sole arbiter and center of the Baha’i faith. The Guardian and the UHJ were meant to work together for a system of checks and balances. The UHJ is all alone now.

I wonder why God would put such a hurdle in the way… That’s a mystery.

We have no sect, and there can be no schism in the Baha’i Faith. Its unique?..YES … its unbelievable? … NO … someone who have read (specially the Torah), will find lots of links…

No schism? Sources say otherwise. But, I’ll take your explanation in a mystical sort of sense.

What about unenrolled Baha’is who aren’t officially aligned with the UHJ, but aren’t aligned with any of the other sects that apparently “don’t exist,” either? Do you consider them to be Baha’i?

 

[NoWings]

therefore, the Universal House of Justice is THE Unique and Supreme Governing Body of the Baha’is of the Entire World

Where are the Local Houses of Justice? If I remember correctly, the UHJ should’ve been the last step in the process.