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Catholic_Dude
Guest
Thanks for your response. I hope to post my response as soon as I have the time (hopefully tonight).
- Status
A
Abraxsis
Guest
Bahai’s claim that all religions are valid. However they refuse to believe in the death and resurrection of Christ.
To be blunt…
Are you a Bahai?
If so do you believe that Jesus died a physical death and was resurrected?
Easy question. Easy answer.
If you say yes and then no, then you dont think Christianity is valid?
If Christians claim their faith is the true faith and Muslims say the same thing how can you say they are both right. They are different for very good reasons.
Doesnt that go against the basis of your religion?
To be blunt…
Are you a Bahai?
If so do you believe that Jesus died a physical death and was resurrected?
Easy question. Easy answer.
If you say yes and then no, then you dont think Christianity is valid?
If Christians claim their faith is the true faith and Muslims say the same thing how can you say they are both right. They are different for very good reasons.
Doesnt that go against the basis of your religion?
K
kashef_0909
Guest
Your very first questions prooves that you didnt even read my previous posts. Your very next list of questions clarify and confirm that reality further…
My friend… please read my first post… and then go ahead and read my second post (which is longer, and so divided in different sets, contnous…marked with ‘continued’).
There I have replied the question of ‘Resurrection’. I took time and was patient to tipe all the way to answer the curious mind. I think as a ‘Questions Asker’ you should also be a good ‘Answer reader’.
Please read both (specially second series) of my posts, and then give a response on to which part is unacceptable to you.
Thanks…I will wait for a more clear response from you
.Kashef. (ofcourse I am a Baha’i
… please read my posts for further info, it carried your answers).
I
inJESUS
Guest
So Jesus came back and nobody knew about this except some Iranians?
A
Abraxsis
Guest
The problem I have with this is the “Bab.” You can say he is a prophet for your religion, but to compare it with the second coming of christ is in error. The Book of Revelations shows that there will be a rapture, or judgement of the living where all found worthy will enter the kingdom of Heaven. There will also be the Apocalypse, the final battle of good and evil. None of these things have happened. Therefore This man had nothing to do with the second coming.
K
kashef_0909
Guest
If you would have read my first post with a seeing eye, you would never have had this confusion.
However, I would like to add further to this:
Concentrate more on the History of Religions. Who were the first believers in Jesus Christ? Where were they from? What was their previous Religion?
They were from the native land of Christ Jesus, and used to be followers of the Jewish faith. This is a logic. The sun always rises from the East, and this does not mean that the Sun belongs to the East… but it’s the nature of the Sun to rise from the East. The first recipient of the light is therefore the Eastern horizon. After which, the light is spread around the Globe. Because the Ideal King is an equal King to every corner, every inch of the World. For Him it makes no difference between a British or an Israeli or an Iranian!
The first adherents of the Christ, likewise, was from the Jewish community. After many years of the declaration of Christianity, the first non-Jewish (Gentile) ‘Cornelius’ became a Christian.
Acts Chapter 10, Verse 47,48 -
”Cornelius and those with him were commanded to be baptized, becoming the first non-Jewish converts to Christianity.”
… after which Lydia’s family and Phillipian came in… God’s blessings be on all!
At the very beginning of the Baha’i Dispensation, there were numerous followers of The Bab. More than 20,000 were martyred (brutally, nailed down alive, or such more gruesome torturous techniques which are heart wrenching, and I will not describe here. If interested, please make an independent investigation from history facts).
These first followers were mainly from Iran. However, not all were from Iran. There were 4 of the MOST PROMINENT followers of this Exalted Cause from India as well:
Siyyid Basir-i-Hindi, Sa’in Hindi, Sa’id I-Hindi and Darvish Qahru’llah. These were four of the first believers and MARTYRS for this AGE. The first birds to wake … who Herald the Dawn with the songs of their faith. There were also some prominent Arab believers of the cause
The above Non-Iranian believers are Indians. However, many were Arabs (non-Iranians) but due to being considered Middle-Eastern. I will not mention their name. I will mention the names of those who were from beyond Middle-East.
Hands of the Cause of God, The HIGHEST FLAG BREARERS of the Cause of God were from the Western world. And among them were the Western Baha’is and also Baha’is from the black community (as early as the late 1800’s).
To know more, read the Bahai history available in every part of the world. Baha’is are now everywhere in the world…this religion (only 165 years old) is followed by every race of the world. We have National and Local Spiritual assemblies in every country. Please mention yours so that I can give you the address.
Even such, that the Earliest Baha’I believers from the West date back to the time when Baha’ullah was Alive Himself (May Exalted be His Cause).
Such is the Glory my friend… such is the Might of this Cause, that the world is filled with its Light. Look, observe the Might and pace of its spreading. No religion before have spread around the world, to all the people living in it…with this pace (read my first post).
The Call is made… so it has been spread. Those with eyes will be able to see, those with ears will be able to hear.
For Baha’i History, there is so much information, that it will flood this website (which is not right for me to do). Please go with your Independent Investigation. And you will find Glad Answers. For His Promise is fulfilled in such manner…that no one in heaven or on earth…can be away from it.
God Bless.
K
kashef_0909
Guest
The Bab is ‘The Manifestation of God, the Return of the Saviour’. He is the fulfillment of the Promise of Christ, as mentioned in my second series of post (do read it).
The rapture is the annulment of the Old Laws. This rapture was also evident when Jesus declared His Station, as you know from history, how much brutalized He was for this. But He was successful (which is ofcourse inevitable).
If your read my second series of post, with eyes which can see… you will know more about this Judgement. There is always this Judgement… as Heaven is only through the recognision of the Savior. The Bab for this Age… through the Bab, comes the Son of Man in The Glory of the Heavenly Father…the Heaven.
About the Final Battle of the Good and Evil. This actually have happened. If your read more about the Baha’i History, you will know that this happened.
The Battle of Sheikh Tabarsi was this Battle. Where the followers of the Bab fought a bloody Battle with the Forces of the Shah or Iran (the prime Opposer of the Faith). Please refer to: (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fort_Tabarsi )
And,
(bahai-library.org/unpubl.articles/suppression.html )
with only a handful of Baha’is (Known as Bab’i before the Declaration of the Glory of God), The Baha’is forced the Iranian Shah to trechery. He was about to surrender, when he Betrayed and Killed all the Babi’s in Sheikh Tabarsi. His motive was to extinguish the Cause of God…the Goodness of the worlds. Among the Martyrs were not only Iranians, but Arabs and Indians.
Now note: This was not a defeat of surrender. But a Betrayal. And this didnt extinguish the Cause, infact it provided that essential force which would later propel the Cause with such astounding force around the Globe… due to which today The Baha’i Faith is heard of by every ear. However, only those who can hear, hears…
The Martyrdom of Christ Jesus was so similar… they wanted to Kill Christianity with him… but was it possible? This website is also a silent answered of this question. Your very existance is an answer.
The Bab was also Martyred. But He is victorious…and Goodness is prevailing. With This Great Cause, The World will be Healed.
(Note: The Above might have uncontrollable emotions, due to a Baha’i tiping it. The very feeling of those bullets piercing the Beloved’s Physical Garment … is more painful then what I can describe).
This Battle of Good Vs. Evil always appears… sometimes between the swords, sometimes between the minds…sometimes between the words…sometimes as the victories of Physically Weak, Old followers…who Conquer all Evil thrown at them…and establish the Glorious Flag of the Faith…
The Faith of God Prevails…Never has it ever been defeated, and never will it ever be Defeated. No force extinguishes it … the faithful only wins … the faithless looses. While the one who is sleeping remains unaware of the battle between Darkness and Light at the period of Dawn…and how even the Apprearence of Light, defeats Darkness…Nay… erases its very existance…among those who come under the light…
Do read with an open heart my friend. And do read my second series of posts. They will carry some of the answers for you.
See ya…
By the way…I am 21, male from BANGLADESH (not an Iranian). A student of BBA…
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Abraxsis
Guest
kashef_0909…
The Rapture and Apocalypse is supposed to be a world-wide event, not some internal conflict Iran had 150 years ago. There was no anti-Christ, which you leave out. Millions upon millions of people didnt ascend into heaven. Jesus simply did not return. Im not even sure Iran is where the final battle of good evil is supposed to take place. From what I understand, it should be in or very near Israel. Apocalypse is an actual physical place in Judea. It is farm land in todays world.
There is also a promise of peace for 1000 years after the return of Christ. Since 1844 there have been to many wars to count including the most bloody ones like the American Civil War, WWI, and WWII.
The Rapture and Apocalypse is supposed to be a world-wide event, not some internal conflict Iran had 150 years ago. There was no anti-Christ, which you leave out. Millions upon millions of people didnt ascend into heaven. Jesus simply did not return. Im not even sure Iran is where the final battle of good evil is supposed to take place. From what I understand, it should be in or very near Israel. Apocalypse is an actual physical place in Judea. It is farm land in todays world.
There is also a promise of peace for 1000 years after the return of Christ. Since 1844 there have been to many wars to count including the most bloody ones like the American Civil War, WWI, and WWII.
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Catholic_Dude
Guest
[1] Catholics understand “progressive” only in the sense we grow in understanding of what we already know. The fundamental truths do not change with “the needs of the times” nor are previous truths discarded.
[2] The idea that “every Manifestation of God is EQUAL” contradicts your claim of “progressive” in the previous sentence…UNLESS you understand “progressive” to mean truth is relative and can and has changed with each “revelation”.
[3] The Holy Ghost to Christians is God, yet distinct from God the Father and the Son. This isnt a debate on the Trinity, but the fact is only Christians accept the Trinity while other “Manifestations” reject it.
**[4] **The time frame for this passage is a matter of days. Jesus was literally going to die and literally going to rise again in a matter of days. The context of that passage as well as the Gospel are very clear about that. This passage does not support your claims of multiple manifestations.
[5] If you wont talk about the previous manifestations before the Bahai then you never actually answered my original question. What was the last “true” Manifestation/Dispensation before the Bahai?
Combine that with your claim that “all manifestations are equal” and at the very least you must openly admit that Islam replaced Christianity.
[6] Catholics would say the “enlightened” are none other than the Apostles whom Jesus chose to lead His Church, and these Apostles passed on their authority to Christians they appointed as successors. This enlightenment has never faded, Jesus has guided His Church from then up through now.
[7] It is interesting you mentioned the term “Satanic” yet not once did you contrast God to Satan in your explanation. Satan to Christians is a real being, he seeks to harm and mislead. Jesus was clear Satan was real and that he did infact deceive many. When you talk about two kinds of knowledge, Catholics would say all false religions have their origin in Satan who is the “father of lies”.
(cont)
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Catholic_Dude
Guest
There is much error and misconception in your above comments. I will highlight some of the significant points:
[1] You cited a few hand picked verses that were not addressing the issue of the resurrection and yet you go onto interpret what the “resurrection” was about? You have completely misunderstood those verses and misapplied them.
[2] Totally false. Your definition of “resurrection” is not what the Bible teaches at all. Your interpretation is actually a pagan heresy of early Christianity and has its roots in the eastern pagan religions.
[3] The “Son of Man” is Jesus, nobody else. Nobody else is described as coming from Heaven but Jesus.
[4] The reason why you have this incorrect understanding is because you selectively cite passages. The Gospels make sense when you have the proper interpretation which the Church has always defended, first and foremost is that Jesus is both FULLY God and FULLY human. He is the creator of everything and yet at one point in history became a man (WITHOUT ceasing to be God). He was not born a mere man, this heresy has manifested itself under multiple false interpretations which were condemned by the Church.
[5] This is another false statement. It very much was an outward fact, He literally died and was literally resurrected. You basically have to disregard significant passages of the Bible in order to make your claims. And such a realization brings out the ultimate Truth of Christianity and exposes all the false religions and prophets…it exposes them because it leaves you no other options but to claim the Bible must have been corrupted. This is especially significant when non-Christians refuse to openly admit their true feelings towards the Bible. Our Lord Jesus did things so profound, so real, so astounding, that the false prophets that came afterwards wont dare make the same claims.
(cont)
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Catholic_Dude
Guest
[1] The so called “visible heaven” of space has nothing to do with this, unless you believe Jesus came from another planet. God is a spirit, He doesnt “live” in a physical/material place.
[2] Yes they were troubled because Jesus was dead and put in a tomb! His teachings INCLUDED His torture and death. His teachings were not manifest in that He had NOT arisen yet.
[3] That is a huge ancient heresy and totally false. The so called “Cause of Christ” reduces to nothing without His literal physical resurrection. The Gospel becomes nothing more than a bunch of wise sayings, but not the Truth itself.
From what you have said and what I have read it is clear to me the Bahai religion is a modern day resurrection of many of the ancient heresies already condemned but repackaged under the classical eastern syncretic philosophies.
**[4] **The “resurrection” you speak of is a purely philosophical one that has been exposed by the very first Christians as false. Dont think you came upon some new understanding/manifestation with the Bab, the first Christians encountered those very heresies.
[5] Which “clergy” might these be that never understood the Gospel? The Truth is becoming more and more manifest here…the fact is Christianity contradicts your religion.
[6] The only ones who talk like that are atheists OR philosophies like your own that cant explain the miraculous so must spin such concepts into “good ideas” and “happy thoughts” but not actual literal physical truths.
**[7] **No it is not in conflict with science because you dont understand what is going on. Science cant explain the Divine realities, it was never intended to.
**
**[8] When you say “science affirms it” you mean you have to reinterpret what is said to make it fit science. The fact you put such a high emphasis on science means your religion is reduced to nothing more than philosophy, there is no room for true FAITH because unless it is intelligible to you or explainable by science, you reject it.
**
**[9] You totally misunderstand the Bible and Christian theology. St Paul is talking about being dead to sin, with your soul spiritually alive because God’s grace is infused in you. St Paul is very clear he believes Jesus resurrected physically, all you have done is hand pick verses that appear to agree with you while disregarding the rest.
**
**(cont)
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Catholic_Dude
Guest
I am interested to see what type of mental gymnastics and twisting of the Bible you must go through to prove this.
And I asked you what was the last Manifestation/cycle before the Bab came along? Further, Christians are clear the Truth is not relative, something true today does not get overturned in the next “manifestation”.
When I mean “close of age”, end of age, etc I am talking about the time the Bible teaches when Jesus will LITERALLY return in the clouds with His angels and take all Christians to be with Him while evil doers will be sent to eternal hell.
The Final Judgment is the teaching I am trying to get across. The world is not going to last forever.
All you have done is mix religions and avoid focusing on the conflicting teachings between them. John 16 is talking about the Holy Spirit guiding the Christian Apostles, nobody else.
You dont even understand the first coming. When you KEEP saying “although apparently He came from the womb” you totally dont understand the teaching of the Incarnation. It is simply inconceivable to you and that is because of the Islamic roots of your religion which deny Jesus as the literal only-begotten Son of God who became man.
LOL. Your whole view of Christianity is founded on the idea that anything miraculous is “not to be taken literally”. You are totally contradicting everything the Gospel stands for, first and foremost the end when the world is destroyed and Christians will be with God in Heaven while evil doers will be in hell.
I would put you in the category that cannot perceive the Truth of Christ.
Again, you are showing you must spin the teachings to come into conformity with “science”. The stars falling can mean anything from meteors to miraculous balls of fire.
C
Catholic_Dude
Guest
(cont)
In other words this will be a global catastrophe that will be unmistakable.
Science cant explain it, but it will happen. This will take place suddenly such that time will mean nothing, Jesus could appear across all parts of the earth in an instant.
The fact is you must now openly come out and admit you dont believe in the miraculous. But will you do that?
You must admit you dont believe in the spiritual realm, but will you admit that?
No, it means it will occur at a time when nobody expects, yet in that sudden moment the Final Judgment will start. It is funny that you didnt quote the whole verse which says:10and it will come – the day of the Lord – as a thief in the night, in which the heavens with a rushing noise will pass away, and the elements with burning heat be dissolved, and earth and the works in it shall be burnt up.
In other words this will be a global catastrophe that will be unmistakable.
No. That is simply the official day when His public preaching mission started. St John the Baptist was the forerunner once Jesus came to Him the Gospel of Jesus would start being preached.
Again, you must spin the teachings to come into conformity with “science”. In otherwords if you cant explain it and science cant explain it it must not be true but merely a "good idea’ or “happy thought” in the philosophical realm.
Science cant explain it, but it will happen. This will take place suddenly such that time will mean nothing, Jesus could appear across all parts of the earth in an instant.
LOL. There you go again. YOU cant explain it, therefore it must not have happened…Wrong.
The fact is you must now openly come out and admit you dont believe in the miraculous. But will you do that?
You must admit you dont believe in the spiritual realm, but will you admit that?
It has become extremely “manifest” (pun intended" that you must reinterpret everything in Scripture to remove any trace of miracle or divine intervention. The whole point of "final judgment’ is that that is it, there is NOTHING more to come. God is judge and man must come under judgment. Nobody has performed anything near the level of miracles or prophecies Jesus made about himself and the future.
C
Catholic_Dude
Guest
I will try to respond to the rest of your work as soon as I find the time. Hopefully by tomorrow.
K
kashef_0909
Guest
First we will discuss the ‘Rapture’:
Do Baha’is believe in “the rapture”? It’s my understanding that Baha’is believe exactly what Paul wrote about it. The modern Christian doctrine of the “rapture” teaches that “dead” and “sleeping” Christians will be physically “caught up” to heaven when Christ returns in the flesh. This doctrine is derived from 1 Thessalonians 4, in the writings of the Apostle Paul, which reads:
“But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as [do these] others… .”
At first glance, when reading the fourth chapter of Paul’s first letter to the Thessalonians, it would appear that Paul was telling us that when Christ returns from heaven those Christians “which are asleep” and those who are “dead” will both awaken and rise from the dead and then be physically “caught up” into the sky "to literally “meet the Lord in the air.”
Most Christians today have been taught to interpret this passage literally… in terms of its fleshly meanings. Is this what Paul originally intended? Or was he instead trying to convey a less obvious, spiritual message? How can we know for certain? Does Paul tell us how to interpret his writings? Can we find related statements elsewhere in Paul’s writings which help us to better understand what Paul was trying to tell us here? The answer, of course, is yes. Paul clearly tells us how to interpret his writings. And Paul clearly illustrates what he meant when he spoke of people being “caught up” into heaven.
HOW PAUL WANTED HIS WRITINGS TO BE INTERPRETED
Referring to the issue of interpretation, Paul instructed his listeners to:
2 Timothy Chapter2, Verse15
“earnestly study to show yourself approved to God, a workman unashamed, rightly dividing (ORTHOTOMEO) the word of Truth.”
Paul wants us to do two things. First he wants us to “earnestly study” the “word of Truth” . In other words, he wants us to know what his writings actually say. And then, secondly, he wants us to “rightly divide” or to correctly interpret what he was saying.
How can we know how to “rightly divide” the Christian message? That’s not too difficult… Paul tells us how. Paul wrote:
1 Corinthians Chapter2, Verse 14
“we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught us by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God for they are foolishness to him and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.”
According to Paul, the “word of Truth” must be “spiritually discerned.” The phrase “spiritually discerned” is translated from the original Greek PNEUMATIKOS ANAKRINETAI. The word ANAKRINETAI is derived from the original root Greek word… KRINO, which means judged, determined or interpreted. In other words, this passage can also be correctly translated as spiritually judged, spiritually determined or spiritually interpreted.
What Paul was trying to help us see is that literal minded people cannot correctly understand “spiritual truths” expressed in spiritual language. If Paul’s teachings are to be “rightly divided” they must be spiritually perceived or, in other words, they must be interpreted in terms of the spiritual message that they contain. Nowhere in his writings does Paul even remotely suggest that passages such as 1 Thessalonians 4 should be interpreted literally.
Paul clearly tells us that his teachings need to be spiritually interpreted. and that if we interpret his teachings literally… we will not understand what he was actually saying. What does this mean in actual practice? And how can we know if we are, in fact, correctly interpreting Paul’s “spiritual words” ?
Do Baha’is believe in “the rapture”? It’s my understanding that Baha’is believe exactly what Paul wrote about it. The modern Christian doctrine of the “rapture” teaches that “dead” and “sleeping” Christians will be physically “caught up” to heaven when Christ returns in the flesh. This doctrine is derived from 1 Thessalonians 4, in the writings of the Apostle Paul, which reads:
“But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as [do these] others… .”
At first glance, when reading the fourth chapter of Paul’s first letter to the Thessalonians, it would appear that Paul was telling us that when Christ returns from heaven those Christians “which are asleep” and those who are “dead” will both awaken and rise from the dead and then be physically “caught up” into the sky "to literally “meet the Lord in the air.”
Most Christians today have been taught to interpret this passage literally… in terms of its fleshly meanings. Is this what Paul originally intended? Or was he instead trying to convey a less obvious, spiritual message? How can we know for certain? Does Paul tell us how to interpret his writings? Can we find related statements elsewhere in Paul’s writings which help us to better understand what Paul was trying to tell us here? The answer, of course, is yes. Paul clearly tells us how to interpret his writings. And Paul clearly illustrates what he meant when he spoke of people being “caught up” into heaven.
HOW PAUL WANTED HIS WRITINGS TO BE INTERPRETED
Referring to the issue of interpretation, Paul instructed his listeners to:
2 Timothy Chapter2, Verse15
“earnestly study to show yourself approved to God, a workman unashamed, rightly dividing (ORTHOTOMEO) the word of Truth.”
Paul wants us to do two things. First he wants us to “earnestly study” the “word of Truth” . In other words, he wants us to know what his writings actually say. And then, secondly, he wants us to “rightly divide” or to correctly interpret what he was saying.
How can we know how to “rightly divide” the Christian message? That’s not too difficult… Paul tells us how. Paul wrote:
1 Corinthians Chapter2, Verse 14
“we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught us by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God for they are foolishness to him and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.”
According to Paul, the “word of Truth” must be “spiritually discerned.” The phrase “spiritually discerned” is translated from the original Greek PNEUMATIKOS ANAKRINETAI. The word ANAKRINETAI is derived from the original root Greek word… KRINO, which means judged, determined or interpreted. In other words, this passage can also be correctly translated as spiritually judged, spiritually determined or spiritually interpreted.
What Paul was trying to help us see is that literal minded people cannot correctly understand “spiritual truths” expressed in spiritual language. If Paul’s teachings are to be “rightly divided” they must be spiritually perceived or, in other words, they must be interpreted in terms of the spiritual message that they contain. Nowhere in his writings does Paul even remotely suggest that passages such as 1 Thessalonians 4 should be interpreted literally.
Paul clearly tells us that his teachings need to be spiritually interpreted. and that if we interpret his teachings literally… we will not understand what he was actually saying. What does this mean in actual practice? And how can we know if we are, in fact, correctly interpreting Paul’s “spiritual words” ?
K
kashef_0909
Guest
“WE SHOULD NOT SLEEP…”
To help us get a clearer understanding of what Paul was trying to tell us in 1 Thessalonians 4 let’s begin by taking a closer look at Paul’s statements concerning "those [Christians] who “sleep” and the the “dead” Christians who will “rise again.”
First, ask yourself, how did Paul use these terms elsewhere in his writings? And then ask, how were such terms used elsewhere in the New Testament?
The New Testament writings contain a number of statements concerning topics such as… sleep, death, awakening, resurrection and rebirth. For example, in Peter’s writings we find a statement which says that:
1 Peter Chapter4, Verse 6
“the gospel was preached also to them are dead, that they might… live according to God in the spirit.”
If we were to interpret this statement literally, then we would have to conclude that Peter was telling us that the Gospel was preached to “dead” people in an attempt to convince them to rise from their deadness.
The same is true of Paul’s writings. For example, Paul told the Christians of Rome to start acting like they are alive. He wrote:
Romans Chapter6, Verse 13
“yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead.”
Later on, in this same book, Paul again tells these Christians:
Romans Chapter13, Verse 11
“it is now the hour for you to be aroused from sleep.”
While Peter and Paul both advised their listeners to wake up and to rise from the “dead” … Jesus told people that they had to get “born.” Jesus said:
John Chapter3, Verse 3-7
“I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God… That which is born of flesh is flesh (SARX), and that which is born of Spirit is spirit (PNEUMA). Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.”
Peter and Paul clearly were not writing to people who had ever been physically dead, while Jesus was speaking to people who had obviously already been physically born. In another place, we can see where Jesus again used the analogy of “death” to refer to someone whom he had characterized as spiritually dead, spiritually misdirected or spiritually unaware. When Jesus told the man to “Let the dead bury their dead” (Luke 9:60-KJV) he certainly was not speaking of people who were physically dead and who were going to a funeral. Instead, Jesus again clearly was speaking symbolically. He was using a parable to describe people who had become spiritually misdirected.
In his letters, Paul also repeatedly employs Jesus’ symbolic parable of death. For example, in Ephesians Paul was speaking to Christians who were obviously very much physically alive, and yet, he advised:
Ephesians Chapter 5, Verse 14
“Wake up, O sleeper, rise from the dead.”
In what way were the Roman Christians asleep and dead? Certainly not literally.
If Paul was speaking in these other passages of something other than physical sleep or a fleshly death, then wouldn’t it be consistent to also apply the same principle of spiritual interpretation to 1 Thessalonians 4?
Consider, back in 1 Thessalonians 4, when we take a closer look at the entire context of Paul’s rapture passage, we can clearly see that Paul intended these passages to be interpreted spiritually. Here Paul concludes his statement about “those who sleep” by advising: “…so then, we should not sleep as the rest also do.”-1 Thessalonians 5:6
If Paul actually did intended for his statement about “those who sleep” to be interpreted literally… then to be consistent, wouldn’t we also have to conclude that his other statement just a couple of verses later “so then, we should not sleep as the rest also do” should also be interpreted literally? Was Paul trying to tell us that he doesn’t want Christians to ever physically sleep again? Of course not. This is not physically possible. Even Jesus had to sleep. (see: Matthew 8:24) So, if Paul wasn’t speaking here of literal, physical sleep, then what was he actually saying?
Apparently the Christians back in those days were not “rightly dividing” Paul’s teachings so Paul was telling them to wake up spiritually, to open their eyes to spiritual realities and to begin to “spiritually discern” his writings.
Paul continues by providing us with some even more specific examples of what he meant when he spoke of “sleep” and “death” . Two thousand years ago, the Jewish people had failed to recognize the fulfillment of their prophecies. By not recognizing the return of Elijah from heaven as John the Baptist and similarly by rejecting Jesus as their Messiah they demonstrated that they had lost the true spirit of their teachings. This is what Paul meant when he called these people “blind”, “asleep” and “dead” .
To help us get a clearer understanding of what Paul was trying to tell us in 1 Thessalonians 4 let’s begin by taking a closer look at Paul’s statements concerning "those [Christians] who “sleep” and the the “dead” Christians who will “rise again.”
First, ask yourself, how did Paul use these terms elsewhere in his writings? And then ask, how were such terms used elsewhere in the New Testament?
The New Testament writings contain a number of statements concerning topics such as… sleep, death, awakening, resurrection and rebirth. For example, in Peter’s writings we find a statement which says that:
1 Peter Chapter4, Verse 6
“the gospel was preached also to them are dead, that they might… live according to God in the spirit.”
If we were to interpret this statement literally, then we would have to conclude that Peter was telling us that the Gospel was preached to “dead” people in an attempt to convince them to rise from their deadness.
The same is true of Paul’s writings. For example, Paul told the Christians of Rome to start acting like they are alive. He wrote:
Romans Chapter6, Verse 13
“yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead.”
Later on, in this same book, Paul again tells these Christians:
Romans Chapter13, Verse 11
“it is now the hour for you to be aroused from sleep.”
While Peter and Paul both advised their listeners to wake up and to rise from the “dead” … Jesus told people that they had to get “born.” Jesus said:
John Chapter3, Verse 3-7
“I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God… That which is born of flesh is flesh (SARX), and that which is born of Spirit is spirit (PNEUMA). Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.”
Peter and Paul clearly were not writing to people who had ever been physically dead, while Jesus was speaking to people who had obviously already been physically born. In another place, we can see where Jesus again used the analogy of “death” to refer to someone whom he had characterized as spiritually dead, spiritually misdirected or spiritually unaware. When Jesus told the man to “Let the dead bury their dead” (Luke 9:60-KJV) he certainly was not speaking of people who were physically dead and who were going to a funeral. Instead, Jesus again clearly was speaking symbolically. He was using a parable to describe people who had become spiritually misdirected.
In his letters, Paul also repeatedly employs Jesus’ symbolic parable of death. For example, in Ephesians Paul was speaking to Christians who were obviously very much physically alive, and yet, he advised:
Ephesians Chapter 5, Verse 14
“Wake up, O sleeper, rise from the dead.”
In what way were the Roman Christians asleep and dead? Certainly not literally.
If Paul was speaking in these other passages of something other than physical sleep or a fleshly death, then wouldn’t it be consistent to also apply the same principle of spiritual interpretation to 1 Thessalonians 4?
Consider, back in 1 Thessalonians 4, when we take a closer look at the entire context of Paul’s rapture passage, we can clearly see that Paul intended these passages to be interpreted spiritually. Here Paul concludes his statement about “those who sleep” by advising: “…so then, we should not sleep as the rest also do.”-1 Thessalonians 5:6
If Paul actually did intended for his statement about “those who sleep” to be interpreted literally… then to be consistent, wouldn’t we also have to conclude that his other statement just a couple of verses later “so then, we should not sleep as the rest also do” should also be interpreted literally? Was Paul trying to tell us that he doesn’t want Christians to ever physically sleep again? Of course not. This is not physically possible. Even Jesus had to sleep. (see: Matthew 8:24) So, if Paul wasn’t speaking here of literal, physical sleep, then what was he actually saying?
Apparently the Christians back in those days were not “rightly dividing” Paul’s teachings so Paul was telling them to wake up spiritually, to open their eyes to spiritual realities and to begin to “spiritually discern” his writings.
Paul continues by providing us with some even more specific examples of what he meant when he spoke of “sleep” and “death” . Two thousand years ago, the Jewish people had failed to recognize the fulfillment of their prophecies. By not recognizing the return of Elijah from heaven as John the Baptist and similarly by rejecting Jesus as their Messiah they demonstrated that they had lost the true spirit of their teachings. This is what Paul meant when he called these people “blind”, “asleep” and “dead” .
K
kashef_0909
Guest
In the Book of Romans Paul explained that some of these “dead” people were raised from their spiritual deadness when they awoke to the fact that the promises contained in their scriptures had indeed been fulfilled and that Jesus truly was the Messiah. Referring to these newly awakened people, Paul wrote: “A few have [recognized Jesus as the Messiah]… but the eyes of the others have been blinded. This is what our Scriptures refer to when they say that God has put them to sleep, shutting their eyes and ears so that they do not understand what we are talking about when we tell them of Christ… it is even more wonderful when the Jews come to Christ. It will be like dead people coming back to life.” -Romans 11:7
Can you see what Paul was saying here? The Jewish people of Jesus’ day obviously were very much physically alive. However, according to Paul, as a result of their misunderstanding and denial they were characterized as being dead… not physically dead but spiritually dead or spiritually unaware. Then, Paul explains that when these people finally began to understand the inner spiritual message hidden in their scriptures and when they woke up to the fact that Jesus truly was the Messiah… Paul says that this was like “dead people coming back to life” . This was something that was so wonderful that, metaphorically speaking, it was like coming out of the grave of denial and rejection and being carried up to the heaven of belief and certitude.
This is also what Peter meant when he wrote that: “the gospel was preached also to them are dead, that they might… live according to God in the spirit (PNEUMATI) .” -1 Peter 4:6
This is what Peter and Paul both meant when they wrote of those who are “asleep” and those who will “rise again”.
“CAUGHT UP…”
Paul continues his statement in 1 Thessalonians by next promising that the newly awakened Christians and those Christians who had risen from the dead will next “be caught up (HARPAZO) together… to a meeting with the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.”
The literal interpretation of this passage has inspired the birth of the modern Christian dogma of “the rapture”. Most people have seen the bumper stickers which read: “Warning: in case of rapture this car will be vacant.” There actually are people who literally believe that they will physically disappear from their cars and that there will be accidents because these cars will no longer have drivers behind the steering wheel.
What would Paul have thought about this literal interpretation? What did Paul actually mean when he spoke of being “caught up… to a meeting with the Lord in the air” ? Ask yourself, what are the examples of history? How were people raptured into heaven in the past? The answer, once again, can be found in the writings of Paul and the other Apostles.
The original Greek word which has been translated here as “caught up” is HARPAZO. The word “rapture” actually is a human invention and appears nowhere in the Bible. Paul only uses this word twice in all of his writings. . . in 1 Thessalonians and in 2 Corinthians.
PAUL WAS RAPTURED TOO
In Second Corinthians, Paul reveals that he too was raptured or “caught up (HARPAZO ) as far as the third heaven… and heard words so secret that human lips may not repeat them.” -2 Corinthians 12:1 5
Notice here, that Paul was telling us that he, himself, was “caught up” into heaven two thousand years ago. Was Paul telling us here that he physically ascended into heaven while he was still alive? If we can believe what Paul told us back in 1 Corinthians 15, we should already know that that “flesh and blood” can’t go to heaven. So, if Paul’s writings are consistent… the answer is NO! Paul was not physically raptured or “caught up” into heaven two thousand years ago. So, ask yourself again… what was Paul trying to teach us here?
As you probably already know, before he became a Christian, there actually was a time when Paul was an enemy both of Jesus and of Christianity. Paul had rejected Jesus’ claim to be the Messiah and Paul was actively working to destroy the infant Christian Church.
When Paul woke up to the fact that Jesus truly was from God and that Jesus truly was the Christ, Paul describes this spiritual awakening as being “caught up (HARPAZO) as far as the third heaven…” -2 Corinthians 12:1-5. Once again, Paul’s being raptured or his being “caught up” into heaven while he was still physically alive was a spiritual and not a literal, fleshly reality. Paul’s rapture symbolized his awakening to the inner spiritual realities which are concealed in the Jewish scriptures.
Can you see what Paul was saying here? The Jewish people of Jesus’ day obviously were very much physically alive. However, according to Paul, as a result of their misunderstanding and denial they were characterized as being dead… not physically dead but spiritually dead or spiritually unaware. Then, Paul explains that when these people finally began to understand the inner spiritual message hidden in their scriptures and when they woke up to the fact that Jesus truly was the Messiah… Paul says that this was like “dead people coming back to life” . This was something that was so wonderful that, metaphorically speaking, it was like coming out of the grave of denial and rejection and being carried up to the heaven of belief and certitude.
This is also what Peter meant when he wrote that: “the gospel was preached also to them are dead, that they might… live according to God in the spirit (PNEUMATI) .” -1 Peter 4:6
This is what Peter and Paul both meant when they wrote of those who are “asleep” and those who will “rise again”.
“CAUGHT UP…”
Paul continues his statement in 1 Thessalonians by next promising that the newly awakened Christians and those Christians who had risen from the dead will next “be caught up (HARPAZO) together… to a meeting with the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.”
The literal interpretation of this passage has inspired the birth of the modern Christian dogma of “the rapture”. Most people have seen the bumper stickers which read: “Warning: in case of rapture this car will be vacant.” There actually are people who literally believe that they will physically disappear from their cars and that there will be accidents because these cars will no longer have drivers behind the steering wheel.
What would Paul have thought about this literal interpretation? What did Paul actually mean when he spoke of being “caught up… to a meeting with the Lord in the air” ? Ask yourself, what are the examples of history? How were people raptured into heaven in the past? The answer, once again, can be found in the writings of Paul and the other Apostles.
The original Greek word which has been translated here as “caught up” is HARPAZO. The word “rapture” actually is a human invention and appears nowhere in the Bible. Paul only uses this word twice in all of his writings. . . in 1 Thessalonians and in 2 Corinthians.
PAUL WAS RAPTURED TOO
In Second Corinthians, Paul reveals that he too was raptured or “caught up (HARPAZO ) as far as the third heaven… and heard words so secret that human lips may not repeat them.” -2 Corinthians 12:1 5
Notice here, that Paul was telling us that he, himself, was “caught up” into heaven two thousand years ago. Was Paul telling us here that he physically ascended into heaven while he was still alive? If we can believe what Paul told us back in 1 Corinthians 15, we should already know that that “flesh and blood” can’t go to heaven. So, if Paul’s writings are consistent… the answer is NO! Paul was not physically raptured or “caught up” into heaven two thousand years ago. So, ask yourself again… what was Paul trying to teach us here?
As you probably already know, before he became a Christian, there actually was a time when Paul was an enemy both of Jesus and of Christianity. Paul had rejected Jesus’ claim to be the Messiah and Paul was actively working to destroy the infant Christian Church.
When Paul woke up to the fact that Jesus truly was from God and that Jesus truly was the Christ, Paul describes this spiritual awakening as being “caught up (HARPAZO) as far as the third heaven…” -2 Corinthians 12:1-5. Once again, Paul’s being raptured or his being “caught up” into heaven while he was still physically alive was a spiritual and not a literal, fleshly reality. Paul’s rapture symbolized his awakening to the inner spiritual realities which are concealed in the Jewish scriptures.
K
kashef_0909
Guest
JOHN ASCENDED INTO HEAVEN TOO
In the Apostle John’s writings we can see that he too claimed to have ascended into heaven while he was still alive. John wrote: “After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice… said, ‘Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.’ At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven”.-Revelation 4:1
When John was “caught up” into heaven he explains that this happened “in the Spirit” . And again, later in the same book, John explains that he saw these things “in my vision (OPASEI)” .-Revelation 9:17 . Once again, when John was “caught up” or when he was raptured… this clearly was not in the flesh.
ENOCH WAS “TRANSLATED”
Are there any other examples in the Bible of people being raptured into heaven? In the Book of Hebrews we are told that the Old Testament Prophet Enoch was also “translated” into heaven. Paul (if he indeed was the author of the Book of Hebrews) explained that Enoch’s “translation”… or his being “carried over” into heaven, again was not physical. He wrote: “By faith Enoch was translated (METETETHE= carried over) so as to not see death, and was not found, because God translated him. For before his translation he had obtained witness to have been pleasing. But without faith it is impossible to please God.” -Hebrews 11:5-6 (KJV) Enoch’s translation into heaven was “by faith” … it was a faith experience and had nothing to do with the literal flesh.
Later on, in his letter to the Colossians, Paul clearly explains what he meant by being “translated” into heaven or being “caught up” into the “kingdom of God”. Paul wrote: “we do not cease praying for you and asking that you may be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding… giving thanks to the Father… who delivered us out of the power of darkness and translated (METESTESEN= carried away) us into the kingdom of the Son… who is the image of the invisible God.” -Colossians 1:9-14 (IB) Notice here that Paul was telling us that when we combine “knowledge of his will” with “spiritual understanding” , only then is it possible for us to be “translated” out of the “darkness” of ignorance and misinterpretation into the light of the true “faith” . This is a spiritual and not a physical reality.
This is Paul’s spiritual interpretation of how people can be “caught up” or “translated” into the “invisible” spiritual realm of God… This is Paul’s interpretation of “the rapture”.
Now,
The Apocalypse:
This is the simplest one to explain. If you want to understand properly, you will. But if you want to vainly argue about its fact, then there is less to say! No wonder sometimes Jesus Christ Himself would remain quiet when Scibes and Pharisees would keep showering their scorns at Him. With the blessings of God, I understand His Majesty better and better every day.
Apocalypse (Greek: Ἀποκάλυψις -translit. APOKALYPSIS, literally: the lifting of the veil), is a term applied to events that are going to happen tomorrow. Today the term is often used to mean “end of the world/time/age”, which may be a shortening of the phrase apokalupsis eschaton which literally means “revelation at the end of the world/time/age”.
The Greek root corresponds in the Septuagint to the Hebrew galah (גלה), to reveal. The last book of the New Testament bears in Greek the title Αποκαλυψις Ιωαννου, and is frequently referred to as the Apocalypse of John, but in English Bibles it appears as the Revelation of St Johannes, or the Book of Revelation. The term was first used among Hellenistic Jews to refer to a number of writings which depicted the future state of the world in a parabolic way (e.g. Apocalypse of Baruch). The whole class is now commonly known as ‘Apocalyptic literature’. However, the Apocalypse technically refers to the unveiling of God, and not to the destruction of the world, just of our preconceptions.
Apocalypse in the terminology of early Jewish and Christian literature, is a revelation of hidden things given by God to a chosen prophet; the term is often used to describe the written account of such a revelation. Apocalyptic literature is of considerable importance in the history of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic tradition, because it makes specific reference to beliefs such as the resurrection of the dead, judgment day, eternal life and perdition. Apocalyptic beliefs predate Christianity, appear in other religions, and have merged into contemporary secular society, especially through popular culture (see Apocalypticism). Apocalypse-like beliefs also occur in other religious systems; an example is the Hindu concept of pralay.
In the Apostle John’s writings we can see that he too claimed to have ascended into heaven while he was still alive. John wrote: “After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice… said, ‘Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.’ At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven”.-Revelation 4:1
When John was “caught up” into heaven he explains that this happened “in the Spirit” . And again, later in the same book, John explains that he saw these things “in my vision (OPASEI)” .-Revelation 9:17 . Once again, when John was “caught up” or when he was raptured… this clearly was not in the flesh.
ENOCH WAS “TRANSLATED”
Are there any other examples in the Bible of people being raptured into heaven? In the Book of Hebrews we are told that the Old Testament Prophet Enoch was also “translated” into heaven. Paul (if he indeed was the author of the Book of Hebrews) explained that Enoch’s “translation”… or his being “carried over” into heaven, again was not physical. He wrote: “By faith Enoch was translated (METETETHE= carried over) so as to not see death, and was not found, because God translated him. For before his translation he had obtained witness to have been pleasing. But without faith it is impossible to please God.” -Hebrews 11:5-6 (KJV) Enoch’s translation into heaven was “by faith” … it was a faith experience and had nothing to do with the literal flesh.
Later on, in his letter to the Colossians, Paul clearly explains what he meant by being “translated” into heaven or being “caught up” into the “kingdom of God”. Paul wrote: “we do not cease praying for you and asking that you may be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding… giving thanks to the Father… who delivered us out of the power of darkness and translated (METESTESEN= carried away) us into the kingdom of the Son… who is the image of the invisible God.” -Colossians 1:9-14 (IB) Notice here that Paul was telling us that when we combine “knowledge of his will” with “spiritual understanding” , only then is it possible for us to be “translated” out of the “darkness” of ignorance and misinterpretation into the light of the true “faith” . This is a spiritual and not a physical reality.
This is Paul’s spiritual interpretation of how people can be “caught up” or “translated” into the “invisible” spiritual realm of God… This is Paul’s interpretation of “the rapture”.
Now,
The Apocalypse:
This is the simplest one to explain. If you want to understand properly, you will. But if you want to vainly argue about its fact, then there is less to say! No wonder sometimes Jesus Christ Himself would remain quiet when Scibes and Pharisees would keep showering their scorns at Him. With the blessings of God, I understand His Majesty better and better every day.
Apocalypse (Greek: Ἀποκάλυψις -translit. APOKALYPSIS, literally: the lifting of the veil), is a term applied to events that are going to happen tomorrow. Today the term is often used to mean “end of the world/time/age”, which may be a shortening of the phrase apokalupsis eschaton which literally means “revelation at the end of the world/time/age”.
The Greek root corresponds in the Septuagint to the Hebrew galah (גלה), to reveal. The last book of the New Testament bears in Greek the title Αποκαλυψις Ιωαννου, and is frequently referred to as the Apocalypse of John, but in English Bibles it appears as the Revelation of St Johannes, or the Book of Revelation. The term was first used among Hellenistic Jews to refer to a number of writings which depicted the future state of the world in a parabolic way (e.g. Apocalypse of Baruch). The whole class is now commonly known as ‘Apocalyptic literature’. However, the Apocalypse technically refers to the unveiling of God, and not to the destruction of the world, just of our preconceptions.
Apocalypse in the terminology of early Jewish and Christian literature, is a revelation of hidden things given by God to a chosen prophet; the term is often used to describe the written account of such a revelation. Apocalyptic literature is of considerable importance in the history of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic tradition, because it makes specific reference to beliefs such as the resurrection of the dead, judgment day, eternal life and perdition. Apocalyptic beliefs predate Christianity, appear in other religions, and have merged into contemporary secular society, especially through popular culture (see Apocalypticism). Apocalypse-like beliefs also occur in other religious systems; an example is the Hindu concept of pralay.
K
kashef_0909
Guest
Now lets talk about the ANTI-CHRIST!
This may be a surprise to many, but these quotes below are the only references in the New Testament to the antichrist. A careful look reveals that these verses don’t talk about a specific Evil Individual or Entity, but rather calls an antichrist anybody (and all) who deny the divine origin of the Christ Spirit and His Message:
1 John Chapter2, Verse 18-23
”Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.”
1 John Chapter4, Verse 1-3
”Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. “
2 John Chapter1, Verse 7
”For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.”
Therefore, anyone who violently and determinedly sought to oppose the Manifestation could be called an “Anti-Christ,” such as the Vazír in the Báb’s day, Hájí Mírzá Aqásí.
’Christ’ is a Greek word for ‘Annointed One’ which also in means ‘Saviour/Messiah’. This word in ancient Hebrew and Aramaic has always been associated with the Manifestation of God. Which means, the Anti-Christ is but the Anti-Massiah, which is the Anti-Saviour, which in turn is the Anti-Manifestation of God.
As per Aramaic (which was the Native Language of Jesus, in which he spake), Jesus would be called in those time: Isa Mas’ih (Jesus Christ). Aramaic is the predecessor of modern day Arabic (refer for more detailed, and of course, independent investigation).
About the million people advancing into heaven… read closely my previous postings and you will find the answer. These are the people who are believers. The faith in Him is heaven. And yes, there are millions of Baha’is, and growing.
The biggest battle was that of the Sheikh Tabarsi Fort. There were other battles e.g. the battle of Khorasan.
However … at the time of 1844 and onwards, please refer to history, there were many battles around the world. Nations were against Nations…. Even Christians found against Christians.
With a pure and clean and receptive heart, if you really study to know the truth, the truth will come to you.
Now About the 1000 YEARS:
Here friend, you have touched on to a very significant, yet great prophecy … which is now and future.
Here is a little info about it. If you are more interested, you must read more from the nearest Baha’i center from you (www.bahai.org.us )
However, regarding the Baha’i belief, below is some information:
CHAPTER 20- SATAN BOUND
SYNOPSIS:
This chapter reveals the meaning of ‘death,’ ‘resurrection,’ the ‘second death,’ etc., and even gives a brief glimpse of events of the next thousand years! The sequence of events [beginning with the rejection of Jesus], is as follows:{1}
Rejection of Jesus the Messiah = First Death
Acceptance of Baha’u’llah = First Resurrection
Satan bound a thousand years
Judgement of the dead
Rejection of Baha’u’llah - Second Death
The Millennium of Peace
Satan released for a short time
Gog and Magog wage war on the saints
‘Fire from heaven’ = another Manifestation of God (?)
Second Resurrection
Satan bound a second time
This may be a surprise to many, but these quotes below are the only references in the New Testament to the antichrist. A careful look reveals that these verses don’t talk about a specific Evil Individual or Entity, but rather calls an antichrist anybody (and all) who deny the divine origin of the Christ Spirit and His Message:
1 John Chapter2, Verse 18-23
”Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.”
1 John Chapter4, Verse 1-3
”Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. “
2 John Chapter1, Verse 7
”For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.”
Therefore, anyone who violently and determinedly sought to oppose the Manifestation could be called an “Anti-Christ,” such as the Vazír in the Báb’s day, Hájí Mírzá Aqásí.
’Christ’ is a Greek word for ‘Annointed One’ which also in means ‘Saviour/Messiah’. This word in ancient Hebrew and Aramaic has always been associated with the Manifestation of God. Which means, the Anti-Christ is but the Anti-Massiah, which is the Anti-Saviour, which in turn is the Anti-Manifestation of God.
As per Aramaic (which was the Native Language of Jesus, in which he spake), Jesus would be called in those time: Isa Mas’ih (Jesus Christ). Aramaic is the predecessor of modern day Arabic (refer for more detailed, and of course, independent investigation).
About the million people advancing into heaven… read closely my previous postings and you will find the answer. These are the people who are believers. The faith in Him is heaven. And yes, there are millions of Baha’is, and growing.
The biggest battle was that of the Sheikh Tabarsi Fort. There were other battles e.g. the battle of Khorasan.
However … at the time of 1844 and onwards, please refer to history, there were many battles around the world. Nations were against Nations…. Even Christians found against Christians.
With a pure and clean and receptive heart, if you really study to know the truth, the truth will come to you.
Now About the 1000 YEARS:
Here friend, you have touched on to a very significant, yet great prophecy … which is now and future.
Here is a little info about it. If you are more interested, you must read more from the nearest Baha’i center from you (www.bahai.org.us )
However, regarding the Baha’i belief, below is some information:
CHAPTER 20- SATAN BOUND
SYNOPSIS:
This chapter reveals the meaning of ‘death,’ ‘resurrection,’ the ‘second death,’ etc., and even gives a brief glimpse of events of the next thousand years! The sequence of events [beginning with the rejection of Jesus], is as follows:{1}
Rejection of Jesus the Messiah = First Death
Acceptance of Baha’u’llah = First Resurrection
Satan bound a thousand years
Judgement of the dead
Rejection of Baha’u’llah - Second Death
The Millennium of Peace
Satan released for a short time
Gog and Magog wage war on the saints
‘Fire from heaven’ = another Manifestation of God (?)
Second Resurrection
Satan bound a second time
J
Jerusha
Guest
I do not see Ba’hai as being any threat to Christianity. They have a good system of ethics. They do not aggressively prostelytize. They do not persecute others for their beliefs. They recognize the teachings of Jesus. They recognize truth in ALL religions. Harmless, and perhaps a path to Christianity for Muslims. 
- Status