Baha'i Returns Thread: Ask Any of Many Baha'i

[doormouse73]

Quote:-Mary the Mother of God has revealed herself and has never mentioned any of these writings or people at all. infact we are told of this Lady to turn to the Gospels not to Baha’u’llah or Bahai Scriptures.End quote.

I am fascinated with this quote, that you believe that Mary the mother of Jesus (The Christ) is the mother of God.

God who created the whole universe who created all life, among which are human beings, that you could consider that a part of His creation, could be His (God the creator) mother?

I do not believe that God has a mother, no where in all the books of God is there any mention of such a thing.

Maybe we could start a new thread just on this subject, I would be interested in the discussion.

Peace to you.

so you have not answered the question i see?lololol

i rest my case…

and fyi

holy mary mother of God pray for us sinners now,and at the hour of our death.

Amen

all religions you say?? have a look at mainstream Christianity/Roman Catholic or apostolic. you might get educated on who God really is.

God bless you

 

[arthra]

True we Baha’is do not subscribe to the doctrine of the “theotokos” or the dormition of Mary but she is nonetheless highly regarded

He came to the world through the Power of God, born of the Holy Spirit and of the blessed Virgin Mary. Mary, His mother, was a saint from Heaven. She passed her days in the Temple at prayer and food was sent to her from above. Her father, Zacharias, came to her and asked her from whence the food came, and Mary made answer, “From on high.” Surely God made Mary to be exalted above all other women.’

~ Abdu’l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 47

In the Qur’an:

And when the angels said, ‘O Mary! verily, God has chosen thee, and has purified thee, and has chosen thee above the women of the world. O Mary! be devout unto thy Lord, and adore and bow down with those who bow. That is (one) of the declarations of the unseen world which we reveal to thee, though thou wert not by them when they threw their lots which of them should take care of Mary, nor were ye by them when they did dispute.’

(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura   3 - Imran's Family)

Fatimih, Tahirih are also highly regarded by us.

“…immortal heroines such as Sarah, Asiyih, the Virgin Mary, Fatimih and Tahirih, each of whom has outshone every member of her sex in previous Dispensations.”

~ Shoghi Effendi, God Passes By, p. 347

Fatimih was the daughter of Prophet Muhammad and Tahirih was a foremost disciple of the Bab who was called the Pure One.

 

[rinnie]

Hi rinnie,

I have PM’d you and daler regarding what is essentially a terminological misunderstanding between Baha’i and Catholic theology on the Trinity.

I cannot see a difference between the two theologies.

Jesus is God, but NOT the Father
Baha’u’llah is also God, but not the Father.

Jesus and Baha’u’llah took on DIFFERENT human forms yet are begotten from the same substance as the Father

Before Abraham was, Jesus was
Before Abraham was, Baha’u’llah was.

Their Divinity resides in the same eternal plane of existence that is responsible for the creative forces of the Universe, from the beginning that has no beginning, till the ned that has no end.

So, although they were different PHYSICAL bodies at different eras of history, they were both ONE and the SAME in their eternal Divinity. Yet neither of them are one and the same as God the Father.

This is totally true in the Baha’i Writings too.

Hope that clears up both your to-ings and fro-ings

God bless YOU!

Well see here is the problem Baha’ isn’t the Son. We agree.

He is not the Father we agree.

And he is not the Holy Spirit. So there is no other God left.

God is the 3 persons in the Trinity the Father Son and Holy Spirit.

If the Advocate the Holy Spirit was Baha’ Jesus would have told us and we would not call the Holy Spirit the HS it would be Baha’. But it is not. The 3rd Person of the Trinity is the Holy Spirit the Spirit of Truth. God in the Trinity.

So do you see the problem we have here?

 

[rinnie]

Quote:-Mary the Mother of God has revealed herself and has never mentioned any of these writings or people at all. infact we are told of this Lady to turn to the Gospels not to Baha’u’llah or Bahai Scriptures.End quote.

I am fascinated with this quote, that you believe that Mary the mother of Jesus (The Christ) is the mother of God.

God who created the whole universe who created all life, among which are human beings, that you could consider that a part of His creation, could be His (God the creator) mother?

I do not believe that God has a mother, no where in all the books of God is there any mention of such a thing.

Maybe we could start a new thread just on this subject, I would be interested in the discussion.

Peace to you.

But you said you accept Christ as the Son in the Trinity, Remember Son of God. Truly God truly Man.

So how can you reject his Mother as the Mother of God if you accept Jesus as God the Son? Or do you reject Jesus as God the second person in the Trinity?

 

[arthra]

*rinnie wrote:

If the Advocate the Holy Spirit was Baha’ Jesus would have told us and we would not call the Holy Spirit the HS it would be Baha’. But it is not. The 3rd Person of the Trinity is the Holy Spirit the Spirit of Truth. God in the Trinity.

So do you see the problem we have here?
*

It’s not a problem for us…

*The followers of the Gospel, likewise, hold as impossible that the Bearer of a new Revelation should again shine forth from the dayspring of the Will of God after Jesus, Son of Mary – peace be upon Him! In support of this contention, they adduce the following verse from the Gospel: "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but the words of the Son of Man shall never pass away."38 They maintain that neither the teachings nor the commandments of Jesus – peace be upon Him! – may ever be altered.

At one point in the Gospel, He saith: "I go away, and come again."39 Again in the Gospel of John, He hath foretold the advent of a Comforter who shall come after Him.40 In the Gospel of Luke, moreover, a number of signs and portents have been mentioned. Certain divines of that Faith, however, have interpreted these utterances after their own fancy, and have thus failed to grasp their true significance. *

~ Baha’u’llah, The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 125

Be at peace and let us all pray for guidance…

 

[Rumil]

Many years ago I interviewed a Baha’i spokeswoman; she said something I find shocking, and I wonder if other Baha’i have the same view. Baha’i reveres many of the founders of world religions and as such is appealing to students of comparative religions. We know from history that founders of religion are themselves influenced by earlier religions, I.e. Buddha was a yogi and a Hindu, Jesus studied the Torah and the Hebrew prophets, Mohammed was influenced by Judaism and Christianity, and so on. This Baha’i denied this; she said that these holy men were not influenced by earlier religions at all, but God injected spiritual knowledge directly into their souls. Has anyone heard this before? Doesn’t this ahistorical approach greatly reduce the validity and attractiveness of Baha’i?–Rumil

 

[happyme]

so you have not answered the question i see?lololol

i rest my case…

and fyi

holy mary mother of God pray for us sinners now,and at the hour of our death.

Amen

all religions you say?? have a look at mainstream Christianity/Roman Catholic or apostolic. you might get educated on who God really is.

God bless you

Dear doormouse

I did not answer your question, sorry for that you are correct.

OK You have said that Mary has come back in some vision and apparently never said anything about Baha’u’llah.
Can you prove that this actually happened?
Possibly if it did not happen that is the reason you were not told of Baha’u’llah?

You say I need to have a look at mainstream Christianity/Roman Catholic or apostolic belief. No I prefer to refer to the Bible and the Torah I see no mention of the Mother of God.
I believe that you may believe this about Mary, but I and many other Christians do not.

I believe God is far greater and above these ideas, not only did I believe this while identifying as a Christian (Which of course I still do, being a Baha’i does not negate that I believe and so am a Christian) but of course there have been three more Messengers of God who also tell me this. That you may not accept this is OK with me, it is not my problem.

This thread is about understanding what Baha’is believe, we are trying to tell you, and at the same time remain friends and follow polite conversation.
I don’t consider being told:- you might get educated on who God really is. That this is polite or exchange of belief ideas. If you do not believe OK agree to disagree, no more need be said.

May God also bless you with peace and love.

 

[Servant19]

Well see here is the problem Baha’ isn’t the Son. We agree.

He is not the Father we agree.

And he is not the Holy Spirit. So there is no other God left.

God is the 3 persons in the Trinity the Father Son and Holy Spirit.

If the Advocate the Holy Spirit was Baha’ Jesus would have told us and we would not call the Holy Spirit the HS it would be Baha’. But it is not. The 3rd Person of the Trinity is the Holy Spirit the Spirit of Truth. God in the Trinity.

So do you see the problem we have here?

Hi rinnie,

No, dear one, there is no problem at all. The Son is an Eternal Logos, the Primal Will of God, it is not a physical body and soul.

The Eternal Logos Son of God is able to animate SEVERAL human beings throughout history. Jesus was one of them, Bahaullah is another. As were Moses, Krishna, Muhammad, the Bab etc etc.

That why Jesus said He will return with a new name.
That’s why Krishna said when righteousness is weak, I come from age to age. (The “I” is reference to the Eternal Logos)
There are several examples of this from all religions. A careful study of religion will reveal this reality to you.

God bless

 

[Servant19]

so you have not answered the question i see?lololol

i rest my case…

and fyi

holy mary mother of God pray for us sinners now,and at the hour of our death.

Amen

all religions you say?? have a look at mainstream Christianity/Roman Catholic or apostolic. you might get educated on who God really is.

God bless you

Ok, I don’t like going into these things but here goes…

A few years back, a good Christian friend of ours was sadly dying and his family were around him as he was passing by his final moments in hospital. He literally was gasping for breath, and eyes were shut while family members were sobbing. Now this is an account from his family members who are all Christians. They said that he suddenly, alerted, sat up, shouted “Baha’u’llah” then lied back down again and died. Those were his last words.

I don’t know what these visions mean. Visions are truly personal experiences and often address very personal things.

If I may ask you doormouse, when the Blessed Mary says go back to the Gospels, what exactly do you think she means?

 

[arthra]

Many years ago I interviewed a Baha’i spokeswoman; she said something I find shocking, and I wonder if other Baha’i have the same view. Baha’i reveres many of the founders of world religions and as such is appealing to students of comparative religions. We know from history that founders of religion are themselves influenced by earlier religions, I.e. Buddha was a yogi and a Hindu, Jesus studied the Torah and the Hebrew prophets, Mohammed was influenced by Judaism and Christianity, and so on. This Baha’i denied this; she said that these holy men were not influenced by earlier religions at all, but God injected spiritual knowledge directly into their souls. Has anyone heard this before? Doesn’t this ahistorical approach greatly reduce the validity and attractiveness of Baha’i?–Rumil

Rumil:

Well two things…

We do believe all the Manifestations of God have innate knowledge…so Jesus taught in the Temple when He was a child… The Buddha also was supposed to have superior knowledge when He was young according to some stories. The Bab was sent to a school and was able to confound His teacher…and of course we believe They all were the mouthpiece if you will for the Holy Spirit.

As far as “influence” goes yes the human part of the Manifestations are affected by what’s around Them and what political and social laws are in society…

Of course I wasn’t at that discussion but here’s my response:

To me a historical approach is essential to appreciate our Faith…as an example read the Dawnbreakers or Nabil’s Narrative translated by Shoghi Effendi. Baha’is are very much interested in documentation and authenticity of the teachings…so the original manuscripts and so on are preserved for posterity…

Thanks for your questions!

 

[PRmerger]

I am fascinated with this quote, that you believe that Mary the mother of Jesus (The Christ) is the mother of God.

God who created the whole universe who created all life, among which are human beings, that you could consider that a part of His creation, could be His (God the creator) mother?

I do not believe that God has a mother, no where in all the books of God is there any mention of such a thing.

Maybe we could start a new thread just on this subject, I would be interested in the discussion.

Peace to you.

You may be confused because you are relying on an equivocation regarding our understanding of “God”.

The equivocation occurs with the word “God”. When we say Christ is God, we mean the Incarnate Word. Here, God means “God the Son”.

However, when you say, “God”, here you mean Triune Godhead.

And, of course, we do not believe that the Triune Godhead had a mother.

So your confusion lies in an equivocation with the use of the word “God”.

 

[Servant19]

Dear friends,

I have started a new thread here. Our 100 post limit has been reached, so again, mods, feel free to close this one down.

Rinnie, doormouse, PR, feel free to continue our explorations together here:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=11150975#post11150975