Baha'i Returns Thread: Ask Any of Many Baha'i

[daler]

Jesus, in this statement, was revealing the third Person of the Trinity who would guide his Church into all truth. Now, if Christ did indeed keep his word and send the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth why would you look elsewhere? Would not that truth exist in the very Church Christ founded?

First of all, would you mind citing the verse where Jesus says "Look to Daniel? Jesus says much in answer to the question before he ever says “But of that day and hour no one knows…”.

Steve,
Human words tell a lot. They also entrap us. Or free us. The Words of God free us only when we allow ourselves to really “hear” them.

You seem to be describing the Holy Spirit as the One referred to in the verse:

. “When “He”, the Spirit of Truth comes.”

“Verily, He Who is the Spirit of Truth is now come.” The Words of Bahá’u’lláh

Matthew 24:15

“When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, whoso readeth, let him understand.”

Jesus refers to Daniel as a source of understanding when asked by His disciples:

24:3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

The Adventists do a great job with this. They all agree that 1844 was the fulfillment of Daniel’s time, times, and 1/2 time prophecy 360 + 720 + 180 = 1260
and the 70 weeks prophecy
and that all of this started as Daniel foretold with the rebuilding of Jerusalem, begun under Artaxerxes in 457 BC

What they failed to appreciate is what stops most Christians in their understanding. That it wasn’t physical “clouds” in which Jesus returned. They were standing on the hillsides looking up into the sky in 1844, expecting Him to come to them out of the blue (or the grey)
It didn’t happen that way. Once again, a baby was born. This time, in Persia, or Elam, and it happened in the year 1260 AH, but they hadn’t made that connection, for there was no comprehension if Islam in Christian Messianic expectation, despite God’s promise to Abraham that Hagar’s lineage, too, would become a great nation. i.e., the Arabs

 

[AveChriste11]

Very valid question Ave, and I admit to having the same question in the past

Baha’u’llah said the following:

“During the days I lay in the prison of Tehran, though the galling weight of the chains and the stench-filled air allowed Me but little sleep, still in those infrequent moments of slumber I felt as if something flowed from the crown of My head over My breast, even as a mighty torrent that precipitateth itself upon the earth from the summit of a lofty mountain. Every limb of My body would, as a result, be set afire. At such moments My tongue recited what no man could bear to hear.”

The point is that this was not a “one-off” incident. Baha’u’llahs tongue recited “what no man could bear to hear” and every limb of His body would be set afire for all of 40 years thereafter, long long after He left that prison, into much more accommodating prisons, and as an exile

So rapid was the speed of the Revelation that He would at some stages have up to 8-10 amanuenses recording what was being recited.

These things are not hallucinatory…the Words of His reciting are testament to that.

“O Friend! In the garden of thy heart plant naught but the rose of love, and from the nightingale of affection and desire loosen not thy hold…”

A hallucination? Impossible…

Hindu yogis have also claimed similar accounts. Why is this unique to Baha’u’llah?

 

[daler]

Hindu yogis have also claimed similar accounts. Why is this unique to Baha’u’llah?

Ave,
I think that the answer to your questions lies in the volume of writings left by Baha’u’llah on virtually every subject related to mankind’s ordered life. His texts are lucid, comprehensive, marked by something to which even the word genius would not apply.
I realize that may sound biased, but the point is that they are flawless, of the highest degree of eloquence, and meaningful. It would be best to take a measured sample and judge for yourself. Read a few pages every day for a month or so, or perhaps even a few passages from the Hidden Words:

HE IS THE GLORY OF GLORIES
This is that which hath descended from the realm of glory, uttered by the tongue of power and might, and revealed unto the Prophets of old. We have taken the inner essence thereof and clothed it in the garment of brevity, as a token of grace unto the righteous, that they may stand faithful unto the Covenant of God, may fulfill in their lives His trust, and in the realm of spirit obtain the gem of Divine virtue.

The above is just the preamble, which describes in it how the essence of that which has been revealed unto ancient Prophets has been distilled, “clothed in the garment of brevity”, made brief. This link will take you to the texts if you care to view them:

reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/HW/

If you wish to read further samplings of a more general nature of His writings, I would suggest Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, on a wide variety of subjects, from life after death, to the purpose for which God created man.

reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/GWB/

 

[daler]

Clearly they might have the same sort of substance, in a view that we all have bodes that humanity might be considered a substance, but we do not share the exact same substance or personal entity of everyone else, we are individuals. But are you suggesting that God is complex in his being? That the manifestations are most definietely God but not of that part of God that which is supreme? THis is a very disturbing view if that is the case.

Ignatian,
. You often speak of “substance”. Here is what the Bab says of substance:

. "The substance wherewith God hath created Me is not the clay out of which others have been formed. He hath conferred upon Me that which the worldly-wise can never comprehend, nor the faithful discover.”

. ““I am the Primal Point,” the Báb thus addresses Muḥammad Sháh from the prison-fortress of Máh-Kú, “from which have been generated all created things… I am the Countenance of God Whose splendor can never be obscured, the light of God whose radiance can never fade… All the keys of heaven God hath chosen to place on My right hand, and all the keys of hell on My left… I am one of the sustaining pillars of the Primal Word of God. Whosoever hath recognized Me, hath known all that is true and right, and hath attained all that is good and seemly…”

 

[arthra]

Hindu yogis have also claimed similar accounts. Why is this unique to Baha’u’llah?

Well HIndu yogis have mystical experiences and so do Christian mystics…

I would hope we can acknowledge both can we not?

Can we acknowledge that Jewish mystics have mystical experiences as well?

The experience of Baha’u’llah in what was the Siyyah Chal

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%ADy%C3%A1h-Ch%C3%A1l

was a transforming one that He did not share immediately …only later did He reveal what occurred. It was a turning point in the development of the Faith that had great social and historical repercussions…similar to that experienced by Prophet Muhammad on Mount Hira. Essentially Baha’u’llah was in chains awaiting execution for four months… His companions one by one were led to their martyrdom.

*The Siyah-Chal, into which Baha’u’llah was thrown, originally a reservoir of water for one of the public baths of Tihran, was a subterranean dungeon in which criminals of the worst type were wont to be confined. The darkness, the filth, and the character of the prisoners, combined to make of that pestilential dungeon the most abominable place to which human beings could be condemned. His feet were placed in stocks, and around His neck were fastened the Qara-Guhar chains, infamous throughout Persia for their galling weight.(1) For three days and three nights, no manner of food or drink was given to Baha’u’llah.

Rest and sleep were both impossible to Him. The place was infested with vermin, and the stench of that gloomy abode was enough to crush the very spirits of those who were condemned to suffer its horrors.

Such were the conditions under which He was held down that even one of the executioners who were watching over Him was moved with pity. Several times this man attempted to induce Him to take some tea which he had managed to introduce into the dungeon under the cover of his garments. Baha’u’llah, however, would refuse to drink it. His family often endeavoured to persuade the **guards to allow them to carry the food they had prepared for Him into His prison. Though at first no amount of pleading would induce the guards to relax the severity of their discipline, yet gradually they yielded to His friends’ importunity. No one could be sure, however, whether that food would eventually reach Him, or whether He would consent to eat it whilst a number of His fellow-prisoners were starving before His eyes. Surely greater misery than had befallen these innocent victims of the wrath of their sovereign, could hardly be imagined.(1) *

pp. 608 - 609 The Dawn Breakers (Also known as Nabils Narrative ) translated by Shoghi Effendi

There is an important point though that should be noted here and that is we Baha’is do not rely on reported miracles as proof… as it can become second hand information by the time it reaches us.

For example, if we relate to a seeker, a stranger to Moses and Christ, marvelous signs, he will deny them and will say: “Wonderful signs are also continually related of false gods by the testimony of many people, and they are affirmed in the Books. The Brahmans have written a book about wonderful prodigies from Brahma.” He will also say: “How can we know that the Jews and the Christians speak the truth, and that the Brahmans tell a lie? For both are generally admitted traditions, which are collected in books, and may be supposed to be true or false.” The same may be said of other religions: if one is true, all are true; if one is accepted, all must be accepted. Therefore, miracles are not a proof. For if they are proofs for those who are present, they fail as proofs to those who are absent.

~ Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 100

 

[daler]

Steve,
I respect the sincerity with which you make your point. We Baha’is would insist that we are not encapsulating Jesus into the limiting phrase of “just a prophet”, for that would not reflect His own words: “He who hath seen me hath seen the Father”, as well as “I am in the Father and the Father is in Me.”

. These lofty quotes denote the hight station above the limiting terms of “just a prophet”, so we agree that He is more than that, more than say, Isaiah, Daniel, Jeremiah, etc.
The Baha’is "o "make use of the terminology of their being Greater and Lesser Prophets, the Greater being those who brought a Heavenly Book direct from God to man, but through them as His Divine Instrument, a Pen in His own Hand, speaking His Words, as in:

“These are not My words, but Him that sent Me.” etc

. While although previously mention of Jesus in the station of prophethood from His own lips was made, it is important to try and define what it is that exceeds the limited capacity even of the word “prophet”, and fine a term which befittingly describes His station, for “prophet” can identify “one who prophecies” according to that which God hath revealed unto them. While this also can apply to Jesus, there is, as you believe, something more than that about Him and His identity in the Godhead.

. Although yet a foreign term to Christians and others, the longer I have pondered the choice of Baha’u’llah’s use of the Word “Manifestation” of God, the more I appreciate the uniqueness of this word and its specificity and most exalted meaning above mere mortals who had visions, however profound. It denotes a Direct operation of God’s Will through His Chosen One Who represents His own self on earth.

. In combination with this description of Christ’s exalted station above the previous Prophets may be applied the the term: “Divine Unity” is comparable, I believe, to what the Trinity attempts to encompass it its own way. Study it carefully, please, and draw from it understanding of the direct and inseparable nature of God and His Manifestation; God and Christ are definitely within this especial meaning, defined with clarity here:

. Kindly study it carefully and attempt to grasp its import, please, and see if it satisfies the differences which appear in through the use of such different approaches and terminologies used in the past, and in the present:

."Regard thou the one true God as One Who is apart from, and immeasurably exalted above, all created things. The whole universe reflecteth His glory, while He is Himself independent of, and transcendeth His creatures. This is the true meaning of Divine unity. He Who is the Eternal Truth is the one Power Who exerciseth undisputed sovereignty over the world of being, Whose image is reflected in the mirror of the entire creation. All existence is dependent upon Him, and from Him is derived the source of the sustenance of all things. This is what is meant by Divine unity; this is its fundamental principle.
Some, deluded by their idle fancies, have conceived all created things as associates and partners of God, and imagined themselves to be the exponents of His unity. By Him Who is the one true God! Such men have been, and will continue to remain, the victims of blind imitation, and are to be numbered with them that have restricted and limited the conception of God.

He is a true believer in Divine unity who, far from confusing duality with oneness, refuseth to allow any notion of multiplicity to becloud his conception of the singleness of God, who will regard the Divine Being as One Who, by His very nature, transcendeth the limitations of numbers.

“The essence of belief in Divine unity consisteth in regarding Him Who is the Manifestation of God and Him Who is the invisible, the inaccessible, the unknowable Essence as one and the same. By this is meant that whatever pertaineth to the former, all His acts and doings, whatever He ordaineth or forbiddeth, should be considered, in all their aspects, and under all circumstances, and without any reservation, as identical with the Will of God Himself. This is the loftiest station to which a true believer in the unity of God can ever hope to attain. Blessed is the man that reacheth this station, and is of them that are steadfast in their belief.”

Steve, Please, if you would, read and ponder deeply the implications of this last paragraph, for it is essential in the understanding of the station of what is termed the “Manifestation of God”, which term is often used often in Baha’u’llah’s own writings.

God Bless you my brother.
I pray this lends some understanding.

Daler

 

[Servant19]

Hindu yogis have also claimed similar accounts. Why is this unique to Baha’u’llah?

Just to add to what has already been stated so validly by others already I just wish to assert that the true and clearest proof in the validity of the claim of anyone to be “God made flesh” is the OUTCOMES or FRUITS of their teachings, as asserted my Jesus Himself…

There are currently transformations occurring in thousands of neighborhoods globally. Recently the Universal House of Justice commissioned a video to be released on how the Revelation of Baha’u’llah has been practically applied towards community development and sustainable transformation towards a DIVINELY-INSPIRED community.

In Bihar Sharif, India, (and hundreds of other Indian communities) the caste system which has been a source of disunity for centuries has been eliminated. Women, which have for millennia been considered lesser in station and voice within the community, are now, not only given a voice but have been empowered BY THE MEN in the community to become leaders of all matters related to the community, including education, agriculture, spiritual and material education etc etc. you can see for yourself here:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=cWrlV7QCT3A&feature=plpp

Is there a better fruit than this?

Has any yogi produced such awe-inspiring fruits?

In Lumumbashi, Congo, which has been ravaged my war for too long to remember, where you can’t drive without fear of kidnapping, we now have a situation where hope for the future is finally being perceived. This is not a charity, coming in and doing development work, then leaving the place a decade later only to see things reverse soon after, this is locals being empowered to take ownership for their own spiritual and material advancement, advancing towards the vision of the Kingdom of God on earth as created by Baha’u’llah…

Take a look at Lumumbashi:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=K8z8PjvFif4&feature=plpp

God bless you Ave

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Ignatian,
. You often speak of “substance”. Here is what the Bab says of substance:

. "The substance wherewith God hath created Me is not the clay out of which others have been formed. He hath conferred upon Me that which the worldly-wise can never comprehend, nor the faithful discover.”

. ““I am the Primal Point,” the Báb thus addresses Muḥammad Sháh from the prison-fortress of Máh-Kú, “from which have been generated all created things… I am the Countenance of God Whose splendor can never be obscured, the light of God whose radiance can never fade… All the keys of heaven God hath chosen to place on My right hand, and all the keys of hell on My left… I am one of the sustaining pillars of the Primal Word of God. Whosoever hath recognized Me, hath known all that is true and right, and hath attained all that is good and seemly…”

That quote right there would seem to indicate your prophet claiming ontological equality with God. It was said by you that you worship through these manifestations, but if you cannot give any attributes wherein the manifestations differ from God I suggest you must ultimately worship the entire pantheon of Manifestations for they are all eternal, all infallible, all of the perfect essence of God, Jesus in particular exhibits more than any of your manifestations the right to be worshipped, wherein he created you, he will be the one to judge you and it is by his name only you can be saved.

 

[Servant19]

Dear friends, if you are all looking for a “God made flesh” who can claim that He created us, is the sole judge of all creation and through which salvation is assured, then if the judgment is fair, we must all worship Lord Krishna, for it could be argued that should these things be critical then He said it 3000 years before Christ.

“The whole cosmic order is under me. By my will it is manifested again and again, and by my will it is annihilated at the end” (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 9.8)

“Furthermore, O Arjuna, I am the generating seed of all existences. There is no being, moving or unmoving, that can exist without me” (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 10.39)

“I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who perfectly know this engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts”(Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 10.8)

“Of all that is material and all that is spiritual in this world, know for certain that I am both the origin and the dissolution” (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 7.6)

 

[arthra]

Of course we Baha’is do accept Krishna as a Manifestation of God…

An Indian said to 'Abdu’l-Bahá:

‘My aim in life is to transmit as far as in me lies the message of Krishna to the world.’

'Abdu’l-Bahá said: The Message of Krishna is the message of love. All God’s prophets have brought the message of love. None has ever thought that war and hate are good. Every one agrees in saying that love and kindness are best.

Love manifests its reality in deeds, not only in words – these alone are without effect. In order that love may manifest its power there must be an object, an instrument, a motive.
(Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 34)

 

[SteveVH]

I honor your willingness and courage to read these materials Steve

I’m not sure if the author was implying that those were the ONLY claims of Jesus’ superiority or not, but I feel it is clear that there are other claims to explore, yet maybe the author wished to focus on these areas since they specifically pertained to sin.

The Baha’is acknowledge this belief of Jesus BEING God. In many respects Baha’is do believe the same of Baha’u’llah and Jesus.

Why would you believe that it is beyond God to make Himself flesh on several instances throughout history?

Thanks for your kind words. I am certainly willing but to say it took courage on my part is going a bit far. I find it very interesting to read what others believe.

To answer your question, it is not beyond God to do anything. The disconnect we are experiencing here, IMO, is that you approach this with a preconceived notion that God continually manifests himself in different persons throughout time, rather than inspiring mere humans as prophets to point us to the one Truth. We believe that there is one Truth and He is Jesus Christ. Once the fullness of truth has been revealed what is left to reveal? Once we have been redeemed why do we need to be redeemed again? The door to the cage is open. We are free to leave our prisons. Why would we remain in them waiting for another?

One issue that I brought up, to which I have not received a response is the fact that when Jesus comes again all people on the earth will be aware of it. It will be like lightning seen from east to west. These words certainly cannot be applied to Baha’u’lah. Most people in the world have not even heard of him and have no idea who he even was. Can you please address the apparent contradiction in Jesus’ words concerning his second coming with the reality of the life of Baha’u’lah? There were no angels with trumpets. We do not have a new heaven and a new earth. If Jesus’ words were true, how do you reconcile this?

 

[Servant19]

It is not beyond God to do anything. The disconnect we are experiencing here, IMO, is that you approach this with a preconceived notion that God continually manifests himself in different persons throughout time, rather than inspiring different people as prophets to point us to the one Truth. We believe that there is one Truth and He is Jesus Christ. Once the fullness of truth has been revealed what is left to reveal? Once we have been redeemed why do we need to be redeemed again? The door to the cage is open. We are free to leave our prisons. Why would we remain in them waiting for another?

One issue that I brought up, to which I have not received a response is the fact that when Jesus comes again all people on the earth will be aware of it. It will be like lightning seen from east to west. This certainly cannot be applied to Baha’u’lah. Most people in the world have not even heard of him and have no idea who he even was.

Hi Steve,

When you say that there is “one Truth and He is Jesus Christ” what do you mean exactly? That Truth is an Individual? Or that Truth is the Words of Jesus?

In response to your question about lightning, my understanding of that passage is that the Return will be like a flash of lightning that most people will blink and will miss. Baha’is believe that He will return like a “thief in the night” where no one is aware that the thief is even there. That He will come with the clouds, clouds of obscurity. The exact time of His Return is absolutely unknown, and that’s why no-one read the Bible in 1844 and went to meet Him and immediately believed.

These conditions mimic exactly His first coming.

Can you not see the similarities?

He was a mere carpenter when He came the first time, no one saw His divine majesty, except those with spiritual eyes, just as with Baha’u’llah.

In His first coming, the Jews expected the Messiah to come and conquer Israel with a sword, yet they did not see that He conquered the hearts of men with the spiritual sword known as His Word. In His second coming, Christians expect an awe-inspiring spectacle, just like the Jews did in His first coming. Yet what we got was a prisoner in exile in Persia. Only those with spiritual eyes would recognize, as have millions of Christians since His Second Coming was realized.

I think the similarities are undeniable, don’t you see this perspective at all?

God bless

 

[SteveVH]

Agreed, Servant, and if I may note, the specific characteristic according to Christian belief is that according to scripture and Church teachings Jesus is the ONLY instance of God making Himself flesh.

How to resolve that apparent contradiction? By noting that according to Baha’i belief Baha’u’llah is the Return of Christ, so if someone were to say there is only one, Christ, it is true. As Baha’u’llah points out in the Book of Certitude, there is a oneness that all of the Manifestations of God share with one another, so each can say “I am the only way” and it is true. At the same time, each is distinct, and brought a religion that was most needed at that point in history. The return of Elijah as John the Baptist is an example of this mentioned in the Gospels.

No contradiction.

This is the problem when Scripture is not taken as a whole and is interpreted apart from the faith which produced it. To suppose that John the Baptist is the return of Elijah is to believe in reincarnation. If we read Luke 1:17 we see that the reason that John the Baptist is given this designation because he came in the “spirit and power of Elijah”, not because he was Elijah in a literal sense. He is the New Testament forerunner who points the way to the arrival of the Lord, just as Elijah did in the Old Testament and will again in the future. The best evidence that John the Baptist is not the literal Elijah is that Elijah himself appears with Moses at Jesus’ transfiguration after John the Baptist’s death. This would not have happened if Elijah had somehow changed his identity.

 

[SteveVH]

Hi Steve,

When you say that there is “one Truth and He is Jesus Christ” what do you mean exactly? That Truth is an Individual? Or that Truth is the Words of Jesus?

Jesus IS the Word of God. Our faith is based upon a Person, the one Word. It is not based upon a list of certain wise precepts written by men. You are no doubt familiar with the biblical verse that tells us “God is love” (1 John 4:8 - “Beloved, let us love one another . . . he who does not love does not know God, for God is love.”). How can God be love? Isn’t love something we feel and give and receive? How can it be a Person? It is the same with Truth. Jesus told us that he is the “Way, the Truth and the Life”. He is Truth personified. Our beliefs are not based on a set of ideas. They are based upon a Person and that Person is Truth, and Love, and Mercy. He does not just speak truth, he is Truth. He does not just love, he is Love. He is not just merciful, he is Mercy itself. He is the pinnacle, Servant. There is no other place to go when one has reached the top. We simply have no need for Baha’u’lah or any other. There is no one above Jesus and he has already come. And when he comes again the entire universe will change; a new heaven and a new earth. We will not have to wonder, or debate whether or not he has come.

 

[SteveVH]

In response to your question about lightning, my understanding of that passage is that the Return will be like a flash of lightning that most people will blink and will miss. Baha’is believe that He will return like a “thief in the night” where no one is aware that the thief is even there. That He will come with the clouds, clouds of obscurity. The exact time of His Return is absolutely unknown, and that’s why no-one read the Bible in 1844 and went to meet Him and immediately believed.

Okay. I ask you, in the interest of intellectual honesty, please read the text and then tell me that you still believe what you just said:

*"For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29 “Immediately after the distress of those days

“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’

30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.*

I don’t know if a writer could convey more clearly that this event will not be missed even if one desired to miss it. “All the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see…”.

Your interpretation of the “clouds of heaven” as something that obscures his coming is not in line with the Hebrew meaning. Clouds represent the “shekinah”, the “holy cloud”; the dwelling of the divine presence of God.

These conditions mimic exactly His first coming.

Can you not see the similarities?

Not in light of the true meaning of the words of Jesus concerning his second coming.

 

[SteveVH]

Dear friends, if you are all looking for a “God made flesh” who can claim that He created us, is the sole judge of all creation and through which salvation is assured, then if the judgment is fair, we must all worship Lord Krishna, for it could be argued that should these things be critical then He said it 3000 years before Christ.

Did he die for you and was he resurrected from the dead? It isn’t that Christ just made claims. When he forgave sins he also made cripples walk again, or gave sight to the blind. When he forgave, the accusing crowds walked away in shame. When he died, he came back to life, walked among us once more and then ascended into heaven. Many have made claims. No one has backed them up like Jesus. He has defeated sin and death. To whom shall we go? To Krishna?

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Dear friends, if you are all looking for a “God made flesh” who can claim that He created us, is the sole judge of all creation and through which salvation is assured, then if the judgment is fair, we must all worship Lord Krishna, for it could be argued that should these things be critical then He said it 3000 years before Christ.

“The whole cosmic order is under me. By my will it is manifested again and again, and by my will it is annihilated at the end” (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 9.8)

“Furthermore, O Arjuna, I am the generating seed of all existences. There is no being, moving or unmoving, that can exist without me” (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 10.39)

“I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who perfectly know this engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts”(Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 10.8)

“Of all that is material and all that is spiritual in this world, know for certain that I am both the origin and the dissolution” (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 7.6)

So why don’t you worship Krishna in the manner by which you worship what you call God, whomever your utterly unknowable and undescribable and unrelatable God is? He is your creator, along with Jesus whom other bahais maintain are seperated entities not only in physical reality but in their spiritual reality.

How can I not call this polytheism?

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Did he die for you and was he resurrected from the dead? It isn’t that Christ just made claims. When he forgave sins he also made cripples walk again, or gave sight to the blind. When he forgave, the accusing crowds walked away in shame. When he died, he came back to life, walked among us once more and then ascended into heaven. Many have made claims. No one has backed them up like Jesus. He has defeated sin and death. To whom shall we go? To Krishna?

Bahais deny the ressurection of the dead. WHat they call ressurection is something akin to ascending into heaven, that is the passage of the spirit to a greater realm. Bahais maintain that materiality is inherently worth less than a spiritual existence thus there was no need for Jesus to ressurect. On another level the ressurection for them seems to have been the regaining of faith in the apostles.

 

[arthra]

So why don’t you worship Krishna in the manner by which you worship what you call God, whomever your utterly unknowable and undescribable and unrelatable God is? He is your creator, along with Jesus whom other bahais maintain are seperated entities not only in physical reality but in their spiritual reality.

How can I not call this polytheism?

I guess polytheism is having more that one “god”… We view Krishna as a Manifestation of God.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

I guess polytheism is having more that one “god”… We view Krishna as a Manifestation of God.

Krishna is your Creator, he is the being by which you derive your existence, he is all and in all, he is the ultimate reality. His words not mine. He seems very much to be God almighty and yet you refuse to recognise what he says as such.